Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[minazoe]

I can't pretend I know what was going on in her mind. but to put this together..

Shannan was outside running for her life and trying to evade someone.

Brewer then Hackett then Colletti? or Colletti then Hackett? or someone before Brewer?
the lady that wouldn't open her door for Shannan ( but made yet another call to police?)
Brewer not wanting her back in the house. ( was this the plan to put her outside where she would be vulnerable?)
she can't trust Pak. why? because he set this up?
she hid under a boat for awhile...

maybe Rex did see her at CVS and followed them back and watched the house.

something spooked her, someone grabbed at her , someone was chasing her. it's hard to believe the story put forth by detectives for some reason. I would like to see a consecutive accounting of the events that evening and where we are missing large spans of time we can't account for.

I still think there is some kind of nexus between PH and RH and not just the letter H.


mOO

 

[SarahSherlock]

As a newbie to this forum (I will apologise in advance if I sound basic- but I do have fresh, sharp eyes) there was no reason for her to knock on a door to ask for help unless she was desperate - so what made her desperate? And was “that” threat still there? Or did she go from one threat to another?

 

[minazoe]

what does make sense to me is a young woman is getting passed around in a culdesac by a bunch of middle age old men with $$$ in an isolated area for kicks

mOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Everyone responds to trauma differently and that is common knowledge. Imo

This is so true. It is not unusual for perfectly sane and sober people to act in unusual ways under great stress. Eminent death is a real stressor.

When he treated Shannan, Dr. Hackett never mentioned she was psychotic, deranged or hallucinating. In fact after examining her, and possible giving her something to calm her, he released her to Pak (presumably).

Those of you who feel Shannan was not of sound mind, please refer to Dr. Hackett's comments to the SCPD and Shannan's mother about her mental condition.

I do not know the exact time when Dr. Hackett treated Shannan, I think after she saw Coletti.

 

[minazoe]

I always wondered if she got in a car with PH. A car is a place he could maneuver in with only one leg. Think about it. it's a cage with cushioning. Did they ever take his vehicle? Oh god I'm going back down that rabbit hole...mOO

 

[maamager]

what does make sense to me is a young woman is getting passed around in a culdesac by a bunch of middle age old men with $$$ in an isolated area for kicks

mOO

omg. THIS!!!!!!

 

[minazoe]

whenever I think about Karen Vergata and the story about the detective and the SW at el Casa De Huermann, the part about her being naked by the corner of the house near the driveway is seared into my mind, because in the story Rex says it's " a game" they are playing and they can just leave her there.

was there a game going on with Shannan? was she supposed to be reporting to different addresses in that cul de sac only to find no one was expecting her? did she see Rex in the Shadows? Did she not trust her own eyes and ears? did she realize there was no John#2 waiting at any of the addresses? I'm trying to make sense of her actions. Is she not saying anything at the door because it's dawning on her that this old man isn't expecting her? was she being terrorized in a game?

who took the video tapes from the gate? mOO

 

[Ruminations]

whenever I think about Karen Vergata and the story about the detective and the SW at el Casa De Huermann, the part about her being naked by the corner of the house near the driveway is seared into my mind, because in the story Rex says it's " a game" they are playing and they can just leave her there.

was there a game going on with Shannan? was she supposed to be reporting to different addresses in that cul de sac only to find no one was expecting her? did she see Rex in the Shadows? Did she not trust her own eyes and ears? did she realize there was no John#2 waiting at any of the addresses? I'm trying to make sense of her actions. Is she not saying anything at the door because it's dawning on her that this old man isn't expecting her? was she being terrorized in a game?

who took the video tapes from the gate? mOO

FWIW, the witness that saw Karen Vergata run naked from Rex's house while Asa was home, and who had come with her partner, a cop, was not a sex worker.

They were swingers, and she came with the intention of socializing with sex, switching partners consensually because that's what swingers do.

This story is haunting.


MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

I just have a feeling that SG knew if the police arrived and she did speak to them, the only one being arrested that night would have been-- Shannan Gilbert.

 

[Ruminations]

I just have a feeling that SG knew if the police arrived and she did speak to them, the only one being arrested that night would have been-- Shannan Gilbert.

And...she was super-vulnerable legally with upcoming court hearings regarding her former employer.

It shows how in danger she had to be to make that call, and give her name number.

MOO

 

[snarast]

When RH was arrested, I never thought he was his involved in Shannan's death. Now I am not so sure. That is why I asked about his wife's Asa's whereabouts at that time.

These are just wild speculations on my part.
Since we know Dr. Hackett 'treated' Shannan in his house, did Dr. Hackett release Shannan to the care of her driver MP?

We know MP left Oak Beach before the police arrived. If he had caught Shannan or had her released to him by the doctor, MP would have had her in his vehicle when he left, and could he have taken her to RH's home?

Could Shannan be left with RH, so he could take care of her?

Would RH leave Shannan in 'his' cemetery, but since she was different than his usual victims, dispose of her using a slightly different MO.

We have no idea when Shannan finally ended up in the marsh.

Was anybody from LE following RH's movements at that time?

Rex, the terminator of disobedient escorts.

Oh man.

 

[snarast]

In my opinion RH was nowhere near there. Brewer was hanging out with her for 3 hours before her 911 call. How does waiting 3 hours to make a move on her make sense. You really think RH would be working with someone else? You think he would call a girl with an armed driver? RH made sure to use Burner phones. He picked all his victims up. It took him 12 years to get caught. RH wrapped his victims in camo and put them more or less on the side of the road so he could go back and visit them. Shannon was found in veggitation that would slice you up. Why would a potential murderer go through all that when they could have dumped her body somewhere easier to get to. The cops used a treaded vehicle to reach her.

If Ray Tierney is to be believed, it took RH at least 30 years to get caught.

 

[snarast]

A relevant recap from gone girls:

A young lady describes her days of hard partying in Philly. She meets this guy (RH) in a club who has plenty of drugs who convinces her she can sell coke for him.

She goes with him to a town house that is mostly unfurnished but a tv is on conveniently showing a loop of hardcore .

The guy goes upstairs, when she is distracted by his stash. After a while she hears what sounds like body slamming or someone struggling upstairs.

The girl picks up the stash and runs for the door.

The guy comes down after her.

She tases him on the neck and gets out on the townhouse door steps.

That’s what happened to this girl in 2010 - but she was not out in a secluded area - there were likely so many people available outside that she didn’t have to run knocking on doors, make 911 calls and make a spectacle of herself.

To this day she doesn’t know what he was doing upstairs with whom - but she knew it wasn’t good, that she was in danger.

 

[minazoe]

the chairs in the townhouse were lawn chairs. this really pings with Rex...has there been a clear outline of his Philly connections? Valerie Mack was from Philly and Rex's mom moved to Virginia after he bought her house..I would like to see a map and would also just love to see his calendars going back 30 years or more. mOO

 

[Ruminations]

A relevant recap from gone girls:

A young lady describes her days of hard partying in Philly. She meets this guy (RH) in a club who has plenty of drugs who convinces her she can sell coke for him.

She goes with him to a town house that is mostly unfurnished but a tv is on conveniently showing a loop of hardcore .

The guy goes upstairs, when she is distracted by his stash. After a while she hears what sounds like body slamming or someone struggling upstairs.

The girl picks up the stash and runs for the door.

The guy comes down after her.

She tases him on the neck and gets out on the townhouse door steps.

That’s what happened to this girl in 2010 - but she was not out in a secluded area - there were likely so many people available outside that she didn’t have to run knocking on doors, make 911 calls and make a spectacle of herself.

To this day she doesn’t know what he was doing upstairs with whom - but she knew it wasn’t good, that she was in danger.

When I'm not horrified and terrified by that story, I am a little impressed that she was tough enough to carry and use the taser effectively against an ogre, and she made her escape carrying the coke out the door with her. Then, years later, she's on camera, telling the story neither making herself a hero nor a victim.

I am very interested in who owned that home, and who was upstairs.

She sounded afraid for, more than afraid of, the noise which she assumed was a person upstairs. That is very interesting to me. At first, she thought she was going along with (presumably) Rex to facilitate a drug sale. So, an additional person wouldn't be a surprise. Then, in the cab ride, she got the message that her close-as-he-could-get-to-a-child's-body body was what he was willing to pay for, not help with a transaction. Either too stunned to process that and bail, or interested enough in the pay for the change of job responsibilities, she stayed.

But, noises that sounded like a second person scared her. She obviously did not think this was the customer from plan A. And she discussed the scary noise as if she assumed the second person was a victim, a person who endured plan B before her. She didn't seem to think the second person was a co-conspirator with Rex. She seemed afraid that she'd suffer some similar fate. Did others hear her story that way?

Because when I first heard her story, I was afraid she was about to be ambushed. But as she went on, that didn't seem to be her fear.

She must have experienced things-heard things- that she didn't verbalize. Maybe there was reason to think the person was gagged (that makes a sound different from whispers) or she heard something that sounded like someone fighting restraints. Maybe she heard Rex give an order, so it didn't sound like a partner for an ambush. (Or, did I not understand her story properly?)

Whatever was going on, we are again seeing how versatile Rex is. He can express himself as "benignly" as trapping a young woman on the LIRR with his fat man spread and making her watch him drink a lot of cheap beer. He can lure bartenders out of strip clubs with cocaine. He can pretend to care about Shannan's family and pretend to offer money to support them. He can attempt to redirect a cab. He can successfully invite a cop over for swinging, and have him bring a vulnerable young person just released from jail. He can stalk his employees just to prove he can.

I do not know if Rex Heuermann is involved in Shannan's murder or not. But one argument against that is invalid IMO, is any argument that it's not like him. This is not a man whose behavior during his free time is unvaried. There are themes, like domination, but not consistent ways to express them. He literally has a cousin who lived (lives?) in Oak Beach, so it's hardly a bigger stretch that he was there as compared to Philly.

MOO

 

[minazoe]

oh please, he has been seen on trains, harassing young women, he has been seen popping out of woods on park trails, he has been seen in swinger parties in his own home, he has been picked up at hotels with a crying hysterical Shannan outside..he has waved guns around..he has decapataed and dissected, he has dumped intact bodies in groupings of 4, he had 400 phones and electronic gadgets and hundreds of guns..the last time anyone saw K V was naked in his driveway according to a witness...so MO? burlap, belts. bags, plastic containers, men, women , children...

I think his MO is whatever is handy...including any victim he can get his hands on when Asa is not on vacation. mOO

 

[snarast]

When I'm not horrified and terrified by that story, I am a little impressed that she was tough enough to carry and use the taser effectively against an ogre, and she made her escape carrying the coke out the door with her. Then, years later, she's on camera, telling the story neither making herself a hero nor a victim.

I am very interested in who owned that home, and who was upstairs.

She sounded afraid for, more than afraid of, the noise which she assumed was a person upstairs. That is very interesting to me. At first, she thought she was going along with (presumably) Rex to facilitate a drug sale. So, an additional person wouldn't be a surprise. Then, in the cab ride, she got the message that her close-as-he-could-get-to-a-child's-body body was what he was willing to pay for, not help with a transaction. Either too stunned to process that and bail, or interested enough in the pay for the change of job responsibilities, she stayed.

But, noises that sounded like a second person scared her. She obviously did not think this was the customer from plan A. And she discussed the scary noise as if she assumed the second person was a victim, a person who endured plan B before her. She didn't seem to think the second person was a co-conspirator with Rex. She seemed afraid that she'd suffer some similar fate. Did others hear her story that way?

Because when I first heard her story, I was afraid she was about to be ambushed. But as she went on, that didn't seem to be her fear.

She must have experienced things-heard things- that she didn't verbalize. Maybe there was reason to think the person was gagged (that makes a sound different from whispers) or she heard something that sounded like someone fighting restraints. Maybe she heard Rex give an order, so it didn't sound like a partner for an ambush. (Or, did I not understand her story properly?)

Whatever was going on, we are again seeing how versatile Rex is. He can express himself as "benignly" as trapping a young woman on the LIRR with his fat man spread and making her watch him drink a lot of cheap beer. He can lure bartenders out of strip clubs with cocaine. He can pretend to care about Shannan's family and pretend to offer money to support them. He can attempt to redirect a cab. He can successfully invite a cop over for swinging, and have him bring a vulnerable young person just released from jail. He can stalk his employees just to prove he can.

I do not know if Rex Heuermann is involved in Shannan's murder or not. But one argument against that is invalid IMO, is any argument that it's not like him. This is not a man whose behavior during his free time is unvaried. There are themes, like domination, but not consistent ways to express them. He literally has a cousin who lived (lives?) in Oak Beach, so it's hardly a bigger stretch that he was there as compared to Philly.

MOO

I also got the impression that there was a victim upstairs that he was manhandling until his new bartender catch could be convinced to imbibe a drug that would render her unconscious.

She was very turned off by his talk of young children on the ride to the townhouse. He knew he had to wait a while so he used a prisoner/trafficking victim he had conveniently stored upstairs.

Since she didn’t wait to find out - and quite possibly die - we’ll never know.

 

[Ruminations]

I also got the impression that there was a victim upstairs that he was manhandling until his new bartender catch could be convinced to imbibe a drug that would render her unconscious.

She was very turned off by his talk of young children on the ride to the townhouse. He knew he had to wait a while so he used a prisoner/trafficking victim he had conveniently stored upstairs.

Since she didn’t wait to find out - and quite possibly die - we’ll never know.

Eww. Viable theory, but yuck!

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Post in thread 'Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2'
Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

Just reposting/bumping this because it is the most comprehensive summary of an organized crime motive for murdering Shannan.

I think it is possible that she was murdered because serial killers like to kill. But I also think it is possible she was murdered because she worked for an agency that engaged in multiple, serious felonies and her boss with that agency could have felt he'd go down harder if Shannan, who was also charged, showed up for court.

I used to favor the theory that this was the motive. I now think that serial killer is just as plausible, considering the swinger witness and the nighttime cabbie witnesses' accounts regarding victims Karen and Shannan.

They are both very compelling motives.

MOO