Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[susan904]

Being held

 

[CuriousCricket]

Post in thread 'Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2'
Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

Just reposting/bumping this because it is the most comprehensive summary of an organized crime motive for murdering Shannan.

I think it is possible that she was murdered because serial killers like to kill. But I also think it is possible she was murdered because she worked for an agency that engaged in multiple, serious felonies and her boss with that agency could have felt he'd go down harder if Shannan, who was also charged, showed up for court.

I used to favor the theory that this was the motive. I now think that serial killer is just as plausible, considering the swinger witness and the nighttime cabbie witnesses' accounts regarding victims Karen and Shannan.

They are both very compelling motives.

MOO

Wonder if there's an overlap in the two worlds.

 

[minazoe]

organized crime is more organized..lets face it, she called the police..she was making a scene..there were witnesses. This was hardly the ideal time to whack her. there are so many easier ways...they didn't need to bring her to Oak Beach and chase her around for four hours...unless it was Pac, but it just doesn't work for me... you can't let your victim run around ringing doorbells...that's just too messy.

plus you can't explain all the weirdness with PH, the phone calls ..the "treatment"..no one can convince me she died of hypothermia.

mOO

 

[snarast]

organized crime is more organized..lets face it, she called the police..she was making a scene..there were witnesses. This was hardly the ideal time to whack her. there are so many easier ways...they didn't need to bring her to Oak Beach and chase her around for four hours...unless it was Pac, but it just doesn't work for me... you can't let your victim run around ringing doorbells...that's just too messy.

plus you can't explain all the weirdness with PH, the phone calls ..the "treatment"..no one can convince me she died of hypothermia.

mOO

Every operation can go wrong, even in organized crime. Shannan calling 911 was not expected. Pak or someone else had to think on his feet.

 

[WINDSOR]

Every operation can go wrong, even in organized crime. Shannan calling 911 was not expected. Pak or someone else had to think on his feet.

I doubt Organized Crime was directly involved in Shannan's death. True the sex trade is mostly controlled by OC, and likely there was some relationship existing. If OC wants someone dead, they tend not to have witnesses who are left alive. Brewer, Pak, Hackett, and others are still around.

 

[minazoe]

rex is an outdoorsman who loves to dress up in his outdoor gear, wellies and guns and slop around the park areas .

 

[snarast]

rex is an outdoorsman who loves to dress up in his outdoor gear, wellies and guns and slop around the park areas .

He might come in handy for building permissions in an OC context, I guess.

Something like - he’ll approve if he gets free access to the latest strawberry/trafficking house. Like the one where the Philly girl was.

 

[Ruminations]

I doubt Organized Crime was directly involved in Shannan's death. True the sex trade is mostly controlled by OC, and likely there was some relationship existing. If OC wants someone dead, they tend not to have witnesses who are left alive. Brewer, Pak, Hackett, and others are still around.

I don't know if OC gangs were involved directly, indirectly, or not at all. I don't know if an organized serial killer was involved, or if the murder was a disorganized kill by a criminal with other intentions and no murder wish or history. But someone had some plan for Shannan that night, and it went way off the rails. The chaos of the early morning doesn't mean an organized gang or an organized individual serial killer was not involved. It just means that Shannan managed to disrupt the plan, whatever level of organization behind it, although she did not survive.

IMO, it is indisputable that there was a plan to harm Shannan in some way, based on the 911 call contents. It's indisputable that she was murdered, intentionally or accidentally, and if intentionally, it is could be that it was not the original intention.


MOO

 

[minazoe]

I do start to wonder about the area she supposedly ran through..has anyone ever attempted to navigate the area in similar weather conditions at night? I heard that the area she was found in actually is not that treacherous and has many ways in and out where you would not be drowning or wading through swamp. how far is it from the back of the the Hackett house to where she was discovered ? so interesting that she is within a mile of the Gilgo girls, it's a mile right? you do wonder if Shannen was dumped back there later..there is no way that PH could handle dumping a body with out help as he is quite disabled. her pants and items were found along the way to where she was found or nearer to her body? I can't remember or maybe I've heard it reported both ways.

what if she never ran through there? what if she was dumped there from the road side? honestly I don't understand their synopsis of this death.

mOO

 

[minazoe]

adding here, I also know that bi polar people can really go crazy..they can go totally off the rails..paranoid, violent, suicidal, ranting, raving, removing clothing, threatening..it is true...but honestly if you listen to her call..you are not hearing the rapid fire urgency of mania.

it's too bad that it colors the situation. mOO

 

[Ruminations]

I do start to wonder about the area she supposedly ran through..has anyone ever attempted to navigate the area in similar weather conditions at night? I heard that the area she was found in actually is not that treacherous and has many ways in and out where you would not be drowning or wading through swamp. how far is it from the back of the the Hackett house to where she was discovered ? so interesting that she is within a mile of the Gilgo girls, it's a mile right? you do wonder if Shannen was dumped back there later..there is no way that PH could handle dumping a body with out help as he is quite disabled. her pants and items were found along the way to where she was found or nearer to her body? I can't remember or maybe I've heard it reported both ways.

what if she never ran through there? what if she was dumped there from the road side? honestly I don't understand their synopsis of this death.

mOO

I also suspect she was dumped. The time she supposedly entered the marsh was properly morning. The sun had already started lighting the area. Some clothes including her jeans were found near the supposed entry area, which makes no sense. If she had had any reason to remove her pants, and she didn't, she would not have had time in the middle of being chased right near the entry point. At that time, I think she would have been possible able to hide in the marsh if she were still, but moving rapidly across the Marsh could have been heard or noticed in the quiet morning.

I suspect she was captured and relieved of her pants and her money and killed. Then, her clothing and purse were dumped near the alleged entry point, and her body was dumped from the road where it was found. The timing of the dumping? I really don't have any basis for a theory. I can't even assert that they were dumped at the same time.

It is interesting to listen to Pak, Brewer and Shannan all NOT talk about money on the 911 call. They were all aware that a 911 call was being recorded. Pak also mentioned explicitly that he was bringing Shannan back to Manhattan because he didn't want it on tape that he was involved in taking Shannan across state lines. (And, maybe he hadn't taken her across state lines, of course. But whether or not it was truthful, he wanted it on the record!)

MOO

 

[snarast]

It is interesting to listen to Pak, Brewer and Shannan all NOT talk about money on the 911 call. They were all aware that a 911 call was being recorded. Pak also mentioned explicitly that he was bringing Shannan back to Manhattan because he didn't want it on tape that he was involved in taking Shannan across state lines. (And, maybe he hadn't taken her across state lines, of course. But whether or not it was truthful, he wanted it on the record!)

MOO

That is such an important insight. Why would he say Manhattan and not ”home”?

Across state lines for the record…that’s one reason. There might be others. Such as for instance misleading on purpose because he was going elsewhere with Shannan - further out - on Long Island.

What if Pak thought someone else was listening in - live - apart from Brewer and disinterested SC cops?

 

[WINDSOR]

I also suspect she was dumped. The time she supposedly entered the marsh was properly morning. The sun had already started lighting the area. Some clothes including her jeans were found near the supposed entry area, which makes no sense. If she had had any reason to remove her pants, and she didn't, she would not have had time in the middle of being chased right near the entry point. At that time, I think she would have been possible able to hide in the marsh if she were still, but moving rapidly across the Marsh could have been heard or noticed in the quiet morning.

I suspect she was captured and relieved of her pants and her money and killed. Then, her clothing and purse were dumped near the alleged entry point, and her body was dumped from the road where it was found. The timing of the dumping? I really don't have any basis for a theory. I can't even assert that they were dumped at the same time.

It is interesting to listen to Pak, Brewer and Shannan all NOT talk about money on the 911 call. They were all aware that a 911 call was being recorded. Pak also mentioned explicitly that he was bringing Shannan back to Manhattan because he didn't want it on tape that he was involved in taking Shannan across state lines. (And, maybe he hadn't taken her across state lines, of course. But whether or not it was truthful, he wanted it on the record!)

MOO

Timing is important, specifically at what time was Shannan at Dr. Hackett's being treated by him?

Working backwards, we know when the SCPD police officer arrived in Oak Beach, around 6:00am, we know when Pak, left oak Beach approximately, just prior to the SCPD officer arriving. We know when Gus Coletti called 911.

If we knew when Hackett treated Shannan, and there should be a record, a lot of things will become very clear.

For example did Hackett see Shannan before she called 911 from Brewer's house?
Or did he see her after Shannan ran from Coletti's house?

It could be possible that Shannan was in Hackett's house after the SCPD officer arrived at oak Beach?

One scenario, Shannan is running away from Coletti's house. She is met by Hackett who tells her he is a Doctor and a Police Surgeon. 'Come into my office you will be safe there'. Hackett tells Pak, whom he knows, to go home, he will take care of Shannan from there on . Shannan relaxes when she hears Hackett say 'Police', 'doctor' and he tells Pak to leave. He could have even told the officer who would know who Hackett is, that he will handle the situation and the officer can go now.

Scary?

MOO

 

[minazoe]

it is scary..there are only two ways it works..either he got her into a car or he gave her an injection to knock her out. Theres no way he can overcome Shannan standing up . .. unless he has help...unless he has help he cannot dump her body...I just think it's physically impossible ...maybe with a very big wheelbarrow from the road side. wonder if he has one? after several books and so much fretting, I still don't fully understand Peter Hackett's story or how what he says could be true.

I still don't feel like dropping it.

mOO

 

[White_Rabbit]

Timing is important, specifically at what time was Shannan at Dr. Hackett's being treated by him?

Working backwards, we know when the SCPD police officer arrived in Oak Beach, around 6:00am, we know when Pak, left oak Beach approximately, just prior to the SCPD officer arriving. We know when Gus Coletti called 911.

If we knew when Hackett treated Shannan, and there should be a record, a lot of things will become very clear.

For example did Hackett see Shannan before she called 911 from Brewer's house?
Or did he see her after Shannan ran from Coletti's house?

It could be possible that Shannan was in Hackett's house after the SCPD officer arrived at oak Beach?

One scenario, Shannan is running away from Coletti's house. She is met by Hackett who tells her he is a Doctor and a Police Surgeon. 'Come into my office you will be safe there'. Hackett tells Pak, whom he knows, to go home, he will take care of Shannan from there on . Shannan relaxes when she hears Hackett say 'Police', 'doctor' and he tells Pak to leave. He could have even told the officer who would know who Hackett is, that he will handle the situation and the officer can go now.

Scary?

MOO

Based on the publicly available timeline of events from the early morning of May 1, 2010, there appears to be a narrow time frame in which Shannan could have encountered Dr. Peter Hackett.

Key Times (from news reports and court documents):

4:51 AM: Shannan calls 911 from Brewer’s residence.

~5:24 AM: Barbara Brennan sees Shannan at her door, texting, appearing upset. Pak is believed to be nearby. Brennan calls 911.

Shortly after 5:24 AM: Shannan leaves Brennan’s property heading toward the general area of Hackett’s home, which is a short walk away.

~6:00 AM: SCPD officer arrives in Oak Beach. Pak is seen leaving around this time.

This leaves a ~35 minute window between approximately 5:24 AM and just before 6:00 AM where, geographically and chronologically, a meeting between Shannan and Hackett could have occurred.

One hypothetical scenario:

After leaving Brennan’s, Shannan moves in the direction of Hackett’s residence. In the quiet of the early morning, a commotion between Shannan and Pak might have been audible from nearby homes. In this scenario, Hackett, hearing noise or seeing movement, steps outside to check.

If such a meeting happened, Shannan may have been reassured by someone identifying themselves as a doctor. Pak could have later arrived, and Hackett, not knowing who he was but perhaps assuming he was familiar to Shannan, might have allowed Shannan to leave with him.

I believe that Hackett’s had good intentions and was trying to help.

Why this fits within the known timeline:

Hackett’s house is close to Brennan’s, making an encounter possible within minutes.

The ~35 minute gap is enough time for a short interaction before the first police arrival.

Pak’s departure with Shannan just before police arrived could be explained if he had reconnected with her during this period.

This is only a hypothetical reconstruction of events based on reported times, distances, and known movements. It is not a statement of fact about what did or did not occur, but rather a possible way the morning’s events could have unfolded.

 

[minazoe]

I'm rather meh on Hackett's good intentions. mOO

 

[snarast]

I think Hacket is likely to be a red herring. Why would some of her belongings end up by his house otherwise?

There’s a reason her belongings were placed there.

But I’ve been over that a couple of times, so…agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think Hacket is likely to be a red herring. Why would some of her belongings end up by his house otherwise?

There’s a reason her belongings were placed there.

There is something missing for sure.
Like a thing she saw , that we cant see.
She called 911 and grabbed her bag and stuff and ran ...
or she called 911 and ran and they tossed it out...
Maybe she never even ran?
(working stuff out in my head)

 

[WINDSOR]

I think Hacket is likely to be a red herring. Why would some of her belongings end up by his house otherwise?

There’s a reason her belongings were placed there.

But I’ve been over that a couple of times, so…agree to disagree I guess.

Sometimes things end up in places 'by accident', 'by mistake' or 'forgotten' or 'by oversite' or just 'carelessness'.
Once I found my wallet stuck behind a cushion I had been sitting in. It was not placed there by anyone. It fell out of my pocket, and the next person sitting on the chair unknowingly, had pushed the wallet out of sight.

Many things can happen that are unplanned.

 

[Ruminations]

Based on the publicly available timeline of events from the early morning of May 1, 2010, there appears to be a narrow time frame in which Shannan could have encountered Dr. Peter Hackett.

Key Times (from news reports and court documents):

4:51 AM: Shannan calls 911 from Brewer’s residence.

~5:24 AM: Barbara Brennan sees Shannan at her door, texting, appearing upset. Pak is believed to be nearby. Brennan calls 911.

Shortly after 5:24 AM: Shannan leaves Brennan’s property heading toward the general area of Hackett’s home, which is a short walk away.

~6:00 AM: SCPD officer arrives in Oak Beach. Pak is seen leaving around this time.

This leaves a ~35 minute window between approximately 5:24 AM and just before 6:00 AM where, geographically and chronologically, a meeting between Shannan and Hackett could have occurred.

One hypothetical scenario:

After leaving Brennan’s, Shannan moves in the direction of Hackett’s residence. In the quiet of the early morning, a commotion between Shannan and Pak might have been audible from nearby homes. In this scenario, Hackett, hearing noise or seeing movement, steps outside to check.

If such a meeting happened, Shannan may have been reassured by someone identifying themselves as a doctor. Pak could have later arrived, and Hackett, not knowing who he was but perhaps assuming he was familiar to Shannan, might have allowed Shannan to leave with him.

I believe that Hackett’s had good intentions and was trying to help.

Why this fits within the known timeline:

Hackett’s house is close to Brennan’s, making an encounter possible within minutes.

The ~35 minute gap is enough time for a short interaction before the first police arrival.

Pak’s departure with Shannan just before police arrived could be explained if he had reconnected with her during this period.

This is only a hypothetical reconstruction of events based on reported times, distances, and known movements. It is not a statement of fact about what did or did not occur, but rather a possible way the morning’s events could have unfolded.

Great post- we need to revisit the timelines.

And, I think it's certain that Hackett had some interaction with Shannan, based on his bizarre behavior with her mother.

It's not impossible that Shannan met/was treated by Hackett before she dialed 911. She could have encountered him on the supposed CVS run, for example. It is not impossible that Hackett spooked her on their first encounter, and Shannan felt or knew he was outside waiting to "treat" her again when she refused to leave Brewer's house.

She was very smart to call 911. It was her best move, IMO.

MOO