Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

[giagreen]

If I understand things correctly, they were both convinced to leave their cell phones behind. That makes sense after the SG ordeal. I wonder, though, what ruse he/they used to make that believable to the girls.

Anyway, if that is true, there are precious few who knew about SGs phone call.

Yep your right. It was MW who left her cell phone at the hotel after telling her pimp that she was going to take a walk to the store for some cigerets. And ALC left her phone she shared with her room mate behind. I think when she was asked about taking the cell phone she said "that's not what he wants"

 

[Mountain_Kat]

A couple of interesting things have recently come to light wrt the Shannan Gilbert case.

1. Hackett did call Mari Gilbert on the day Mari said that he did. He called from his wife's cell phone on May 3. (Hackett initially denied ever calling Mari, then later wrote a letter to CBS saying he did call, but that he called on the 6th of May.)

2. When Shannan fled Brewer's house and ran to Colletti's, she was still on the line to 911. According to Det. Barrone, the conversation between Colletti and Shannan can be heard on her cell phone.

3. According to Diaz, he tried to call Shannan for 2 days, but her phone was off. He called Sherre to see if Shannan was there. (this would have been May 3)

4. Shannan's family filed a missing person's report on May 4, in Jersey City.

5. Shannan's family didn't canvas the Oak beach community looking for Shannan until 8 days later, when they didn't hear back from police.

sources:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_1...issing-escort-shannan-gilberts-final-minutes/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIhi055VroE

Here are the things I find puzzling with respect to this new information:

~ I don't see anything that says that Pak and Diaz returned to the neighborhood looking for Shannan the day after she disappeared. Assuming that did happen, and they canvassed the neighborhood looking for her, how come no neighbor, other than Hackett, ever came forward to tell the same story? Wouldn't Pak and Diaz have gone to Brewer's or Colletti's looking for Shannan, rather than some random neighbor down Anchor Way? How come Hackett gave these two his "calling card" and agreed to call Mari to offer his assistance (according to him) on May 3 (the day BEFORE the family filed a missing person report)? If Pak and Diaz didn't return to the neighborhood prior to the 4th, how the heck did Hackett know ANYTHING about Shannan, unless, of course...well, you know.

~ Why didn't Coletti ever mention that Shannan was on her cell phone when she ran to his house? Why did HE have to call the police when she was already on the phone with them? Maybe he didn't know that's who she was on the phone with, but still...he never mentioned once that she was on her cell phone, to the best of my knowledge.

~ Did Shannan's phone just die on her, or did she actually turn it off? Wouldn't LE be able to trace her cell phone pings if the phone wasn't actually dead? Was that ever done?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Oops, I need to correct myself...Diaz did go to Brewer's a day to 2 after Shannan went missing. They tried to file a missing person's report with Suffolk county...or at least, that's the story I vaguely recall.

Anyone have a better recollection of this, or a msm link we can refer back to?

 

[giagreen]

I watched the tv show disappeared again tonight. And it just got me to thinking about SG's earing again. I'm gonna have to agree with SG's sister. How in the world did every body miss that!?! How annoying.
I like to think that the LISK is someone who is this or that. But I just can't see how it could be anyone els other then JB but I really really don't want to think it's him. Something happen in that house.

 

[LR1]

Just a reminder... paranoia can be a major symptom of Bipolar disorder. Add drugs to the equation along with a lack of sleep and you have the perfect storm which in this case is what I believe led to her death.

Whether she drowned or died from exposure or some type of medical event I can easily understand how it could have happened. It took a lot out of her to get across that marsh in the condition she was in, I seriously believe her body shut down where she was found.

 

[hawkshaw]

The GB4? What mental events do you think led to their untimely demise?

 

[LR1]

Oh goodness, what was I thinking. Shannan was found a few miles from the others so this surely means not only was she a murder victim but a victim by the hands of the same.

This is simple minded reasoning and you should know better.

 

[giagreen]

Just a reminder... paranoia can be a major symptom of Bipolar disorder. Add drugs to the equation along with a lack of sleep and you have the perfect storm which in this case is what I believe led to her death.

Whether she drowned or died from exposure or some type of medical event I can easily understand how it could have happened. It took a lot out of her to get across that marsh in the condition she was in, I seriously believe her body shut down where she was found.

I agree and disagree. It's really a hard call. The fact that JB called MP and told him to come get her cause she was freaking out to me points to JB not being involved.
But at the same time I've been around lots of people who have really bad bipolar that would put SG to shame. Also add drugs into it and yes it gets crazy. But I've never seen a woman who was on drugs with bipolar just jump up and start screaming they are trying to kill me and run for her life. Then add the 911 call onto it and the fact that an escort wouldn't call the cops unless if it was really bad. Just throws it all off.
Maybe she seen something she shouldn't of seen? Maybe JB was going to hurt her but with MP coming out side he decided not to but she still seen something that she shouldn't of?
It's defiantly a mystery. I'd love to go out there and walk around in the area she was found in to get a feel for if she could of ran threw that or not for myself.

 

[giagreen]

Oh goodness, what was I thinking. Shannan was found a few miles from the others so this surely means not only was she a murder victim but a victim by the hands of the same.

This is simple minded reasoning and you should know better.

The area where SG was found doesn't point to the same killer of the GB4 at least not to me. If anything it points to a different killer (if she was murdered) at least to me it does.
What gets me is that she was an escort off of craigslist, same age group, same kind of look, same kind of body build. It's the little things like that.

 

[fred&edna]

Just a reminder... paranoia can be a major symptom of Bipolar disorder. Add drugs to the equation along with a lack of sleep and you have the perfect storm which in this case is what I believe led to her death.

Whether she drowned or died from exposure or some type of medical event I can easily understand how it could have happened. It took a lot out of her to get across that marsh in the condition she was in, I seriously believe her body shut down where she was found.

As I recently mentioned on another thread, Dormer said SG's body could not have been dumped from the road because the brush in the marsh was too thick.

So, in my opinion, if a person couldn't get from the road to where her body was found, then it would be impossible for SG to traverse many times that distance on her own... especially without pants or shoes. And, if she was in a paranoid, drugged, and sleep-deprived state the feat would be bordering on Herculean.

 

[hawkshaw]

Sometimes you folks remind me of a LT.C I once worked with on a homicide. About 9AM on New Years Day there is a body found on "snaked road" in the marsh area near JFK Airport. The body is wrapped in a rug. The mouth has tape over it. The hands and feet are tied. The rug is tied.

The LT believes this is an OD that was dumped by his friends because they didn't want to get involved. He goes on to explain how this could happen. I think he is kidding, but he is dead serious. I guess his friends wrapped him up with the tape, the rug, and over his mouth to make sure he didn't fall out. They dumped him in the marshes and let the wild dogs and rats eat 1/2 of the guy's face off.

I always want to be part of something. This was my chance to be called on the first homicide of a new year.

Do you want to hear the one of the head rolling down the street?

 

[LR1]

Dormer has a theory, when questions are posed to him he tends to say things that support that theory. His explanations don't always make a lot of sense and sometimes lead to a whole different set of questions. I don't always agree with his explanations but I do happen to agree with his theory.

The way she got to the place where she was found can be only one of two ways, aliens are not an option. Either she made her way there on her own that morning or someone placed her there.
The notion that her supposed killer would have placed her in that exact spot makes no sense to me for two reasons.

First, if he lived in that community or was in any way associated with it (which he would've had to have been at that time of day) the body would have been miles away so that if found the scrutiny of the people there would be lessened, This of course assuming he was trying to avoid being caught. Load her in a vehicle, pull out of the gate and travel less than half a mile from the community?

Second, She was known to be missing from there and at some point would have been searched for. If he went to the trouble of carrying or dragging her through the bramble either from the road or across the marsh, why not bring along a shovel or hacksaw to further try to conceal?

MP has never been an option either because by the time it would've took him to gather her up kill her and drag her to where she lay it would have been well beyond first light and around the time the popo showed up for the 911 call. Besides, can you picture this guy ever getting his hands dirty much less wanting to break a sweat?

Overhead photos of the marsh through the years shows different terrain, its obviously not all wall to wall brambles. there's high and low points with water filled trenches throughout. I think it would be hell to navigate in places but certainly not impossible for a person with two good legs IYCMD.

A quote from Shannan's sister in the A&E special caught my ear, she said,

"she would look into the mirror and she would cry"

This quote came after mentioning the abuse she took from the sorry BF, but from the way it sounded I'm almost positive it wasn't in that context but in general terms of how Shannan was. She was obviously a troubled soul, perhaps from past abuses, her medical condition or a combination of things and was troubled more than we will ever know. I can't prove it but I feel this greatly contributed to her death, ironically from her actions and not from the still unknown killer of the four, possibly 10 or more others. Remember them?

Having said that I sit here with an open mind and with blinders/off should further evidence come to light.

 

[fred&edna]

Dormer has a theory, when questions are posed to him he tends to say things that support that theory. His explanations don't always make a lot of sense and sometimes lead to a whole different set of questions. I don't always agree with his explanations but I do happen to agree with his theory.

snipped by me - saving space

Thanks for sharing your reasoning/thoughts. We have a difference of opinion... much like Dormer and Spota as to whether there was just one killer (IIRC). I know we all wish we had more information on this case... it would help us to have a "meeting of the minds".

 

[sleuthinforfun]

Just a reminder... paranoia can be a major symptom of Bipolar disorder. Add drugs to the equation along with a lack of sleep and you have the perfect storm which in this case is what I believe led to her death.

Whether she drowned or died from exposure or some type of medical event I can easily understand how it could have happened. It took a lot out of her to get across that marsh in the condition she was in, I seriously believe her body shut down where she was found.

Let's get some facts out before concluding that "bipolar disorder" led to SG's death:

http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/introduction.html

When someone is in a state of fear of impending death, adrenaline and your body's "fight or flight" response takes over. In this state, it is primitive and when a person speaks, may be misunderstood. Her state of mind had to be great fear- she called 911, and was found dead less than a mile away from where she made the initial 911 call. You have to add a lot of BS to conclude she was having a "bipolar" moment.

 

[gypsy gal]

When I was reading the timeline for her case the other day I was struck by the fact that she had gone to see a nightmare on elm street movie that night. I feel like that could have contributed to the hallucination/paranoia theory. Those movies center around the pretty girl being chased by a killer. IDK just a thought. I am really leaning towards it being an incredibly tragic accident kind of death vs a murder... it seems like she would have stayed at the neighbors house and wait for help if she was in her right mind.

 

[sleuthinforfun]

When I was reading the timeline for her case the other day I was struck by the fact that she had gone to see a nightmare on elm street movie that night. I feel like that could have contributed to the hallucination/paranoia theory. Those movies center around the pretty girl being chased by a killer. IDK just a thought. I am really leaning towards it being an incredibly tragic accident kind of death vs a murder... it seems like she would have stayed at the neighbors house and wait for help if she was in her right mind.

Adrenaline = fight or FLIGHT

There's little reasoning going on upstairs when adrenaline takes over.

 

[giagreen]

Adrenaline = fight or FLIGHT

There's little reasoning going on upstairs when adrenaline takes over.

I agree.
Also she was on the phone with 911 her self for a while. They never came. So once she was at GC house and he said he was calling 911 she had no reason to actually think they would come. And I could see how she would of been scared to stay in one spot.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I don't think I have visited this thread before... but in case this is new to anyone reading,
I have Case Archives for Shannan and the LISK in general.

Ocean Parkway Murders Case Archive:
http://s296.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/library/Ocean%20Parkway%20Long%20Island%20Murders%20%20-NY-#/user/crankycrankerson/library/Ocean%20Parkway%20Long%20Island%20Murders%20%20-NY-?sort=6&page=1&_suid=139052913712508205333104575228

Shannan Gilbert Sub-Section:
http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...&page=1&_suid=1390529186329011159879739313944

In addition, there is another sub-section for some stuff that may or may not be related:
http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...&page=1&_suid=1390529234642023498511129865207

 

[LR1]

Let's get some facts out before concluding that "bipolar disorder" led to SG's death:

http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/introduction.html

When someone is in a state of fear of impending death, adrenaline and your body's "fight or flight" response takes over. In this state, it is primitive and when a person speaks, may be misunderstood. Her state of mind had to be great fear- she called 911, and was found dead less than a mile away from where she made the initial 911 call. You have to add a lot of BS to conclude she was having a "bipolar" moment.

Yes let's get some facts out. We can start with the fact that 3 separate people described the way she was acting during the whole episode, 3 people with no connection to one another other than 2 lived in the same community. They all tell the same story, she was acting very strange and ran off for no reason. This also was not the first time this happened, she had a history of flipping out during her dates. If you have a better explanation of what happened that morning I'm all ears, I doubt it will be anything that I haven't heard before or hasn't been discounted by LE. But by all means, keep beating that dead horse. I'm moving on.

 

[giagreen]

Yes let's get some facts out. We can start with the fact that 3 separate people described the way she was acting during the whole episode, 3 people with no connection to one another other than 2 lived in the same community. They all tell the same story, she was acting very strange and ran off for no reason. This also was not the first time this happened, she had a history of flipping out during her dates. If you have a better explanation of what happened that morning I'm all ears, I doubt it will be anything that I haven't heard before or hasn't been discounted by LE. But by all means, keep beating that dead horse. I'm moving on.

Or we could start with the fact that only two people know what happen inside that house to scare the crap out of SG and one of them is dead now.

If she had a history of flipping out then she would have flipped out and been fine the next day, she wouldn't of been found dead.
Not only that but you don't really believe what JB or MP say.....do you?

IDK guess it's pretty much common sense for me that if a woman is running down the street screaming "they are going to kill me" that she is either talking about a homicidal maniac or she was talking about aliens. She sure the hell wasn't beamed up so we're gonna have to go with homicidal maniac.