Post Conviction Brief

[dexter75]

You would think RH could have come up with a better last name to use on the search maps and when signing in. Maybe it's just me, but Kilgus....

Omg IKR!!!!
Sicko...

JMO of course🙄

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[dexter75]

There is some interesting info in some of those exhibits. I am hoping that someone will arrange them better and put them in order LOL I appreciate all the pics, but it's hard to make sense of some of it when pages are missing or they jump around. As I find them in order, I will try to post them... so far, here is one from Steven Kirby, he spoke to SB (TH's room mate)

https://imgur.com/gallery/IYlrw

and another affidavit from JR! https://imgur.com/gallery/Czo7z

I have read it and I believe this might be some of the best new info that came from the brief. JR is clear about how LE tried to get him to say something that wasn't true (the fire), and I think we saw that from the police reports compared to his actual written statement back in the August filing. But to see him actually put it into writing that they did try to get him to say the fire was bigger is good for SA. He also mentions the deer camp barrel... I need to go back and look at the barrel info to see why it's so significant. Oh and then he mentions the bright lights at the Quarry run by Manitowoc County. (which by the way... I was wrong LOL it was MC's land, not Radandt's *sigh*) Ohhhh and he mentions hearing LE saying or telling him that they believe the RAV4 was parked at the end of Kuss Rd at some point before it was moved to ASY. There is more... lol

That fire!
HOW many times did we go round about that HUGE fire?? ( The one that destroyed poor Teresa in " record " time )
The fire that ST also said went from 3ft. to 10 ft. tall.....THAT fire?
Wonder if HIS recollection ( ST ) of the height of the fire " changing " has anything to do with LE influence?
Coincidence?

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[dexter75]

https://imgur.com/gallery/Czo7z

More of JR's affadavit and the part I find very compelling and thought provoking is on the last page. Some posters here will remember the confusing part of that investigation that pertained to LE's "shell game" in relation to the various burn barrels. Remember that and then look at JR's statement:

"During the course of this phone conversation, law enforcement informed me that they were going to collect the contents of the burn barrel at the hunting camp at a later time. When I returned to the hunting camp,I observed that they had cordoned off the area surrounding that burn barrel with yellow tape. To the best of my knowledge, Wisconsin State Patrol assigned officers to watch the burn barrel day and night on a rotating basis until its contents were collected. I was not present when the contents of that burn barrel were collected."

My question here is why in the world would LE go to the trouble and expense of paying for the service of several round the clock LE officers to watch over a barrel? Why would they just not immediately confiscate the barrel? IMO, that leads one to assume possibly that they wanted to keep whatever was contained in that barrel (such as bones, for example) safe and away from prying eyes until such a time that they needed to "find" them. This is, of course JMO, but I can think of no other logical reason why a barrel would need 24 hour guarding from LE like that.

No kidding!
Such evidence so pertinent to such a case...get it collected asap.
Don't proceed to treat a damn burn barrel like the queens castle and put a guard on 24/7 detail.
Really?!
JMO

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[dexter75]

This doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't they haul the barrel away.....something's fishy here.

IMO
Common sense says it doesn't make sense.
But maybe LE had their reasons...if so I can't wait to see what reason (s) they give.😉

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[BigCityAccountant]

Maybe this is the person that called on the 3rd saying TH didn't show up?

Yes, Mark Lindsey is the person who called and said she didn't show up..

But, why didn't Angela become concerned before Pearce contacted TH's mom that day.

She didn't show up for her appts AND she didn't send in overnight pictures. You would think some bells and whistles would have been going off for Angela.

 

[Jaiddie]

Posters elsewhere have straightened up the some of the photo's of the affidavits from the motion. Below is the full cleaned up version of JR's affidavit.

https://imgur.com/gallery/WMAg4

They have also posted TP's full affidavit as well.

https://imgur.com/gallery/hYUA6

 

[BigCityAccountant]

AFFIDAVIT OF STUART H. JAMES
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/593c23c317bffc1f7c5e8472/1497113560924/CV+of+Stuart+James2.pdf …

Missy~~here is your answer to that nagging question about those darn "flakes".

For this experiment I used fresh blood to better represent the time it would take for blood shed by Mr. Avery in his
bathroom sink to coagulate and dry. Blood was drawn from a volunteer and was deposited on the bathroom sink from Mr. Avery's residence.The blood dried on the sink for approximately thirty minutes. Dried flakes of blood were then lifted from the
sink using a scalpel.

More fresh blood was drawn from the volunteer and deposited into the basin and rim of the sink. Using a pipette, blood was taken from the sink and transported to Ms. Zellner's 1999 RA V-4. Blood was then dripped on the driver's seat, the passenger's seat, between the driver's seat and center console, on a CD case sitting on the passenger seat, and on the door jamb of the rear passenger door. An applicator was used to recreate the stain near the ignition. Depositing blood in this manner and at these locations took less than thirty minutes. Blood was also dripped onto the carpet of Ms. Zellner's RA V-4 between the driver's seat and the center console. The fresh blood absorbed into the carpet and did not form flakes.


Footnote: Mr. Avery's sink had been removed from his residence and brought to Ms. Zellner's office.

By the way~~did anyone see this guys credentials??? Holy Smokes!

 

[missy1974]

Yep, thanks BCA, I had read that and it confirmed that they were flakes and that it didn't make sense! LOL


Here is a photo from SA's bathroom of a blood drop, it's always bothered me and have wondered about the "flakes"

 

[missy1974]

So, I have done a lot of reading, and a lot of thinking lol I am a bit sceptical about how the blood got into the RAV4, but I believe KZ's expert when he says they were planted based on patterns and lack of other DNA/blood where it should have been if he was actively bleeding (I think a lot of us have thought this, because, well, it's logical LOL)

I wish the pictures of the exhibits were more organized, I want to post about things, but they are not easy to locate and post, which is making me go :gaah: !!! There were a few interesting things posted today, and maybe tomorrow I will see if I can save the pics and put my thoughts into a post and try to make some sense of it all.

I have to say, I started looking into the Nov 3rd accusations that RH could have been at ASY, not really thinking it was possible, and I'm finding there is absolutely no evidence that he was at and remained at TH's residence from the time he got there in the afternoon and all night, other than his testimony, and even that isn't specific that he was at TH's calling friends and getting calls back.

 

[htiff]

I don't want to derail the current discussion here, but as I was reading through the affidavits, something struck me. There seems to be almost no way for this planting of evidence to have occurred unless the killer and LE were working together.

There are basically 7 major points of evidence:

Bullets
Bones
Blood
Rav-4
Rav-4 keys
Halbach DNA
Avery DNA

Of the above--


Theresa Halbach is the source for:
Rav-4
key
bones

(as in, these items could only have come from someone with access to her body and vehicle after death)

Steven Avery is the source for:
Blood
Bullets

(these items could only have come from someone with access to Avery's home)

But both Halbach and Avery are the source for:
DNA

(If the DNA was planted, this could only have been done by someone either at the lab or someone with access to both Halbach's and Avery's DNA)

This next may be stating the all-too-obvious, but for this "conspiracy" to have been carried out as completely as it was, the killer almost has to working directly in concert with someone on the Manitwoc police force.

Is it crazy to think that the police here solved this crime early, then gave the killer the deal of a lifetime--you help us frame Avery, and you get away with murder?

 

[guruagain]

Yep, thanks BCA, I had read that and it confirmed that they were flakes and that it didn't make sense! LOL


Here is a photo from SA's bathroom of a blood drop, it's always bothered me and have wondered about the "flakes"

Where is the middle of the blood spot - In the RAV4!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Where is the middle of the blood spot - In the RAV4!

I hadn't noticed that either until this morning!!! You took the words right out of my mouth...LOL

 

[BigCityAccountant]

AFFIDAVIT OF CHRISTOPHER PALENIK, PhD

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/s/048-Affidavit-of-Dr-Palenik.pdf

It has taken me some time to go thru the exhibits, but I have to say if I was representing the State of Wisconsin, I'd be overwhelmed by now. The credentials of KZ's experts are the best of the best in their fields. For example, in the Affidavit of Christopher Palenik, he states:

Microtrace staff have contributed to a variety of high profile cases including: the Unabomber, Swiss Air Crash, Narita Airport Bombing (Tokyo), Air India Bombing, Oklahoma City Bombing, the Green River Murders, Jon Benet Ramsey Case, Atlanta
Child Murders, "Ivan the Terrible" war crimes trial (Jerusalem), and the kidnapping and murder of DEA special agent "Kiki" Camerena in Mexico.

Since most of the contents of the affidavit was posted upthread, I'll only include the portion that I found interesting and seemed to be glossed over earlier due to the overwhelming amount of information we received at the same time. This in in relationship to the bullet.

Numerous fibers are observed adhering to the waxy substance. Most of these are colorless; however, red and black fiber fragments were also noted. Other white fibers not associated with the waxy surface were observed in association with the bullet. These fibers could be more specifically identified after isolation and further analysis.

So many questions without answers. What is the fibers noted? Black, red, and white. Did the bullet fall out of something when the concrete floor was jack hammered, was it wiped clean and TH DNA planted on it? Could the white fibers be from a Q-Tip or swab?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Missy shared this with me, so I thought I would share on here as well. I know she has been super busy.

List of Exhibits from Zellnami

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6g9xmn/list_of_exhibits_from_zellnami/?sort=new

 

[BigCityAccountant]

1999 RA V-4 Windows and Doors Manual ("RA V-4 Manual")

KZ called the key the "sub-key" According to the manual, "Your vehicle is supplied with two kinds of keys."

1. Master key - This key works in every lock.
2. Sub key- This key will not work in the glove box.

I'm speculating that KZ tried the sub key (found in Avery's bedroom) in the glove box and it didn't work.

 

[missy1974]

Where is the middle of the blood spot - In the RAV4!

Right! a great source for "flakes"

I have always considered that the blood came from somewhere else, and knew there was some blood in his trailer, but I don't think I ever recall the media interviews where he said there was blood in his sink, and he did back in Nov 2005 after he was arrested. I recall reading theories about a bloody rag (which they found in a car close to the RAV4 IIRC), and I never really bought into the theory. I may be rethinking that though.

When reading the brief, I was thinking there was no way that RH went to ASY on the 3rd, but the more I have looked into the timeline on the 3rd, I haven't been able to discount it now. I think there was an assumption that RH was helping on the 3rd and was talking to LE, etc. When looking back at CASO reports, I don't think LE (Wiegert and Lemieux) were actually at TH's very long that evening, they took the initial information, started making calls to her employers and last appointments (which is odd that they never once record that they tried to call Janda's!!!), requested Manitowoc to go see Avery and Zipperer, and got a hold of the media. It wasn't until the morning of the 4th that they started to interview friends, which included RH. His first interview was at 10am on the 4th, there is no mention of him on the 3rd, the closest thing that is in a report is that several friends had gathered.

I am really going to try to put some cohesive posts together with some of the new documents we have available later!

 

[missy1974]

1999 RA V-4 Windows and Doors Manual ("RA V-4 Manual")

KZ called the key the "sub-key" According to the manual, "Your vehicle is supplied with two kinds of keys."

1. Master key - This key works in every lock.
2. Sub key- This key will not work in the glove box.

I'm speculating that KZ tried the sub key (found in Avery's bedroom) in the glove box and it didn't work.

Many of us here and elsewhere have said this from the beginning. I notice in her list of exhibits she has a photo of the automatic locks from the RAV4, I will have to go see what that is in reference too, might have been the key as well, I wonder if she thinks a keyfob should have been with her keys.

KZ didn't have access to TH's RAV4, but she did go buy a RAV4 which was used for a lot of this testing, including test from the blood spatter expert.

 

[dexter75]

AFFIDAVIT OF STUART H. JAMES
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/593c23c317bffc1f7c5e8472/1497113560924/CV+of+Stuart+James2.pdf …

Missy~~here is your answer to that nagging question about those darn "flakes".

For this experiment I used fresh blood to better represent the time it would take for blood shed by Mr. Avery in his
bathroom sink to coagulate and dry. Blood was drawn from a volunteer and was deposited on the bathroom sink from Mr. Avery's residence.The blood dried on the sink for approximately thirty minutes. Dried flakes of blood were then lifted from the
sink using a scalpel.

More fresh blood was drawn from the volunteer and deposited into the basin and rim of the sink. Using a pipette, blood was taken from the sink and transported to Ms. Zellner's 1999 RA V-4. Blood was then dripped on the driver's seat, the passenger's seat, between the driver's seat and center console, on a CD case sitting on the passenger seat, and on the door jamb of the rear passenger door. An applicator was used to recreate the stain near the ignition. Depositing blood in this manner and at these locations took less than thirty minutes. Blood was also dripped onto the carpet of Ms. Zellner's RA V-4 between the driver's seat and the center console. The fresh blood absorbed into the carpet and did not form flakes.


Footnote: Mr. Avery's sink had been removed from his residence and brought to Ms. Zellner's office.

By the way~~did anyone see this guys credentials??? Holy Smokes!

Saying Zellner went "ABOVE AND BEYOND " for Avery when she took this case wouldn't be giving her and her team of experts the THANKS they deserve.
I am in AWE of all that she & her team of highly qualified experts have been able to achieve thus far😊
JMO

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[CoolJ]

It is possible the pictures we see of blood in the RAV, is not actually blood. Or at least not SA's blood.
In other words, the blood wasnt actually planted in the RAV.

 

[Jaiddie]

BCA & missy, I know at one point you guys were intent on figuring out the phone call logs and a recent poster on another forum took KZ's new subpoenaed phone records from TH cell phone, and made a visual (with notes!!!) of these records that shows several discrepancies that seem to have been fabricated. Among these discrepancies is that fact that the 2:12 that confused some doesn't even seem to exist and that TH never called the Zipper's at all that day. (That would make sense on why that alleged answering machine message can not now be found if it never existed in the first place.) I can admit that I have problems reading these type of records correctly and wanted to bring these visuals over for those that are better equipped to make sense of them.

http://i.imgur.com/SaIJY5S.png

Also came across another visual that the poster says shows that TH's cell phone records show 2 calls came from TH's cell phone (the one that was supposedly destroyed by this time!?!) to her voicemail.

http://imgur.com/a/OGR9U

Just wanted to get your all's take on these. If this information is being read correctly, then I believe these documents are very much a MASSIVE game-changer. :jawdrop: :busted: All JMO, of course.