Post Conviction Brief

[wasnt_me]

I'm with you wasnt_me .... I think she was leaving SA's when she talked to Dawn, not on her way there. Dawn says she said it "WAS the Avery's" Which moves that timeline. As for Bobby, I agree too, I don't find him reliable at all, and I'm not sure why he changed stories. From the get go, LE told Bobby that SA said he was the last to see TH. SA had said this to Jodi, his gf, in a call on the Friday night (the night before the RAV4 was found), when Bobby went to the command center on the Saturday to see if he could go in and get his dog out, they told him what SA said. So right from the start Bobby was defensive, whether this made him lie, or tell LE/State what they wanted to hear, I'm not sure.

Here is another to think about. IF Bobby saw TH taking the photo's and he never mentions SA being outside with her, and then she walks towards SA's trailer..... why would she do that if the address she was given was Barb's? Where Bobby was standing in the kitchen window watching.

Yep, yep. That's what I was saying in some other post. When I read Bobby's testimony, he said she parked on the "north side of the driveway in front of the van." So to me, that means across the street, but in front of the van. I'm assuming that's facing Steven's dead end because Bobby did not say she turned around.

That means a couple things. One, the driver side is facing Bobby. He can't miss it if Steve and Teresa are standing there together. And it also means she was closer to Bobby's house than Steven's house.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-60-plymouth-voyager-van.jpg

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-61-Plymouth-Voyager-Van.jpg

I could have my directions messed up and not really know what north is in relation to the driveway. But this is what he said when Kratz asked where she'd parked, "Just in front of the van, on the north side of the driveway."

I tried to investigate the differences in the addresses, but Google pulled it up as Steve's house no matter if I put an "A" in the address or put an "N" at the start of the address. But if she knew she was photographing for Janda, why not go to Janda's door first? Well, I think she did. On his way out, Bobby might have told her he didn't have the money and go next door.

 

[wasnt_me]

My thoughts on Dawn:

11.03.05 -- The first thing in the CASO report is Dawn saying she did talk to Teresa that morning. She then explains about the Avery call and then jumps to the afternoon, not knowing if she called TH or vice versa. She didn't even know if it was a message or actual conversation. Then, the summary says that Dawn stated that when she "did talk to" TH, TH said she was going to the Avery's for the photo. They don't specify if that was the afternoon or morning talk.

It confusing because if Dawn talked to her, then Dawn knew where TH was going and had just been. It is weird to me that TH would talk to Dawn about Avery's when the place TH needed to know about was Zipperer's. And if TH had found Zipperer's, why didn't she mention to Dawn in a four minute conversation that she got lost and then found it?

You'd think either of these things would come up since TH JUST left a message for the Zipperer's 15 minutes prior. And you'd think it would be memorable to Dawn if TH said it. If TH would tell Dawn that SA answered the door in a towel once, I see no reason that if TH was just lost, that she would not mention that to Dawn.

Plus, why did Dawn call TH anyway? Did she have information to relay to TH? Apparently, so if the call was 4 minutes. Could Dawn have been helping TH locate the Zipperer's but didn't tell LE that? Was Dawn calling because the Zipperer's had called AT to see where TH was?

I don't know, but then, what is this about Rachel Haggs, who said Steven tried to reschedule his appointment on 11/3? It's page 38 of the CASO. She mentions a guy named Scott. Since we never heard of it again, I'm assuming the phone records don't bear that out as true.

In testimony, Dawn does state that, when she returned from lunch, Angela had told her to write up the sheet because TH could make the shoot. So it seems Angela took whatever call from TH while Dawn was out.

If Angela already ascertained that TH could make it out there, and Angela asked Dawn to send the fax, why would TH feel the need to confirm with Dawn that TH could go out to Avery when they talked at 227pm? See, the way dawn describes it, she makes it sound like Angela had never ascertained that TH was going to Avery's.

And Dawn says it was kind of late for TH to be working, so she looked at the clock. Okay...again...why are you calling, Dawn, if you know TH probably isn't working anymore that day?

I find it weird also that Dawn says TH stated that TH was going to the "avery brothers." Dawn used this phrase when she told police that she didn't know why SA used another name. For some reason, I don't think TH would say "avery brothers" unless TH had also done business with the other brothers. Had she? I mean if you're only working with Steven why call him "Avery brothers?" Do we know if she worked with Earl and Chuck, too?

And as for Steven saying "send out the same girl," I think I said this before, but wouldn't Dawn take the time to ask Steven who that was or find out what his account was so she can make sure she did send out the same girl? For all she acted like she knew, Steven could have been a client before TH was hired, and if that was the case, TH would not be "the girl" Steven meant. But Dawn doesn't do any research to make sure of which client it is in order to make sure the right photographer was going out.

My conclusion is that Dawn isn't trustworthy, and I don't really know what she and TH said to each other on the phone.

Am I reading too much into it or is Dawn being sketchy?

 

[wasnt_me]

I went over Angela's testimony right quick.

She says on day two page 33-4 that TH called at a little after 11am to say she could make that shoot and Dawn could fax her the info.

So the calls still do not line up right on that day. I tried to look at the new phone records, but I can't figure them out.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

My thoughts on Dawn:

11.03.05 -- The first thing in the CASO report is Dawn saying she did talk to Teresa that morning. She then explains about the Avery call and then jumps to the afternoon, not knowing if she called TH or vice versa. She didn't even know if it was a message or actual conversation. Then, the summary says that Dawn stated that when she "did talk to" TH, TH said she was going to the Avery's for the photo. They don't specify if that was the afternoon or morning talk.

It confusing because if Dawn talked to her, then Dawn knew where TH was going and had just been. It is weird to me that TH would talk to Dawn about Avery's when the place TH needed to know about was Zipperer's. And if TH had found Zipperer's, why didn't she mention to Dawn in a four minute conversation that she got lost and then found it?

You'd think either of these things would come up since TH JUST left a message for the Zipperer's 15 minutes prior. And you'd think it would be memorable to Dawn if TH said it. If TH would tell Dawn that SA answered the door in a towel once, I see no reason that if TH was just lost, that she would not mention that to Dawn.

Plus, why did Dawn call TH anyway? Did she have information to relay to TH? Apparently, so if the call was 4 minutes. Could Dawn have been helping TH locate the Zipperer's but didn't tell LE that? Was Dawn calling because the Zipperer's had called AT to see where TH was?

I don't know, but then, what is this about Rachel Haggs, who said Steven tried to reschedule his appointment on 11/3? It's page 38 of the CASO. She mentions a guy named Scott. Since we never heard of it again, I'm assuming the phone records don't bear that out as true.

In testimony, Dawn does state that, when she returned from lunch, Angela had told her to write up the sheet because TH could make the shoot. So it seems Angela took whatever call from TH while Dawn was out.

If Angela already ascertained that TH could make it out there, and Angela asked Dawn to send the fax, why would TH feel the need to confirm with Dawn that TH could go out to Avery when they talked at 227pm? See, the way dawn describes it, she makes it sound like Angela had never ascertained that TH was going to Avery's.

And Dawn says it was kind of late for TH to be working, so she looked at the clock. Okay...again...why are you calling, Dawn, if you know TH probably isn't working anymore that day?

I find it weird also that Dawn says TH stated that TH was going to the "avery brothers." Dawn used this phrase when she told police that she didn't know why SA used another name. For some reason, I don't think TH would say "avery brothers" unless TH had also done business with the other brothers. Had she? I mean if you're only working with Steven why call him "Avery brothers?" Do we know if she worked with Earl and Chuck, too?

And as for Steven saying "send out the same girl," I think I said this before, but wouldn't Dawn take the time to ask Steven who that was or find out what his account was so she can make sure she did send out the same girl? For all she acted like she knew, Steven could have been a client before TH was hired, and if that was the case, TH would not be "the girl" Steven meant. But Dawn doesn't do any research to make sure of which client it is in order to make sure the right photographer was going out.

My conclusion is that Dawn isn't trustworthy, and I don't really know what she and TH said to each other on the phone.

Am I reading too much into it or is Dawn being sketchy?

Absolutely wasn't_me! Dawn is NOT trustworthy.

Wouldn't it make more sense that if TH had left SA's by 2:24pm and if she had turned left--that she was calling the office to determine where Zipperer's place was before she left the area. At 2:27pm she most likely would have been at the intersection of 147 and highway Q.

To me that makes sense. If I'm having trouble finding a client, go to the next client and call the office to get clarification on the location. If the office can't provide that clarification, then I'm heading home. I'm already on 147 heading back to I-43, so if the office cannot provide that info~~I'm done for the day.

So, if I'm talking to Dawn at 2:27pm when the call is placed, I'm at Highway Q and 147. If I talk for 4 minutes, that puts me at I-43 and 147, just getting onto the expressway.

 

[missy1974]

wasnt_me ...

Here is a DCI report of an interview with Angela - http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-75-DCI-Schuster-Interview.pdf

I still don't have the answer to when TH called AT to say she could do that shoot, and how they knew that when SA called shortly after 11. It could be she called from her land line and not her cell phone.

I don't have a lot of time right now, but go back to my post 326 in this thread... http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?339977-Post-Conviction-Brief&p=13442940#post13442940

There is another "Steve" noted on her day planner, I believe this is the Steve that called AT and the story just got bigger and convoluted over time.

 

[Karinna]

Yep, yep. That's what I was saying in some other post. When I read Bobby's testimony, he said she parked on the "north side of the driveway in front of the van." So to me, that means across the street, but in front of the van. I'm assuming that's facing Steven's dead end because Bobby did not say she turned around.

That means a couple things. One, the driver side is facing Bobby. He can't miss it if Steve and Teresa are standing there together. And it also means she was closer to Bobby's house than Steven's house.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-60-plymouth-voyager-van.jpg

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-61-Plymouth-Voyager-Van.jpg

I could have my directions messed up and not really know what north is in relation to the driveway. But this is what he said when Kratz asked where she'd parked, "Just in front of the van, on the north side of the driveway."

I tried to investigate the differences in the addresses, but Google pulled it up as Steve's house no matter if I put an "A" in the address or put an "N" at the start of the address. But if she knew she was photographing for Janda, why not go to Janda's door first? Well, I think she did. On his way out, Bobby might have told her he didn't have the money and go next door.

Could you please tell me what page i might find this info. in the post conviction brief? TIA.

 

[wasnt_me]

Could you please tell me what page i might find this info. in the post conviction brief? TIA.

I never said this was in the post conviction brief. And I don't know what TIA is.

 

[wasnt_me]

wasnt_me ...

Here is a DCI report of an interview with Angela - http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-75-DCI-Schuster-Interview.pdf

I still don't have the answer to when TH called AT to say she could do that shoot, and how they knew that when SA called shortly after 11. It could be she called from her land line and not her cell phone.

I don't have a lot of time right now, but go back to my post 326 in this thread... http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?339977-Post-Conviction-Brief&p=13442940#post13442940

There is another "Steve" noted on her day planner, I believe this is the Steve that called AT and the story just got bigger and convoluted over time.

Oh, I see. So three guys named Steven in one day. How weird. I wonder if this third steven tried to call her cell phone between then and when she was reported missing. I really can't understand Zellner's new cell records for Teresa. Where was he located? did he see her? was he interviewed? Where did his lead even come from? Do we have answers to that?

 

[Schmatz]

I never said this was in the post conviction brief. And I don't know what TIA is.

TIA = Thanks in advance

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk

 

[Karinna]

I never said this was in the post conviction brief. And I don't know what TIA is.

This thread by its title is about the post conviction brief so i assumed the info. you were discussing was from there. I asked because i didn't recall reading about any Angela in the PCB so thought i must of missed some of the info. there is all.
TIA means Thankyou in Advance.

 

[wasnt_me]

Absolutely wasn't_me! Dawn is NOT trustworthy.

Wouldn't it make more sense that if TH had left SA's by 2:24pm and if she had turned left--that she was calling the office to determine where Zipperer's place was before she left the area. At 2:27pm she most likely would have been at the intersection of 147 and highway Q.

To me that makes sense. If I'm having trouble finding a client, go to the next client and call the office to get clarification on the location. If the office can't provide that clarification, then I'm heading home. I'm already on 147 heading back to I-43, so if the office cannot provide that info~~I'm done for the day.

So, if I'm talking to Dawn at 2:27pm when the call is placed, I'm at Highway Q and 147. If I talk for 4 minutes, that puts me at I-43 and 147, just getting onto the expressway.

I definitely agree, except it was that dawn called her. Or was Dawn returning TH's call? I cannot understand the new phone records.

No matter who called who, TH talked to Dawn 15 minutes after leaving the Zipperer's the lost message, and so to me, it seems highly likely that TH would mention not being able to find the place to Dawn, even if she was only temporarily lost.

But if Dawn is not reliable, there's no reason to regard her statement that TH was on the way to Avery's at 227pm. She might have been on the way in, on the way out, or neither. To me, that's hearsay. Just like it's hearsay that steve came out in a towel. Just like it seems that Dawn was the first to feed into the "lure" scenario by finding something suspicious about B Janda just because she didn't link the accounts up. So Steven A was being nefarious, but Steven Schmidt wasn't? Okay, Dawn.

Since Dawn called TH at 227pm, I really want to know what prompted her to do so 15 minutes after TH can't find the Zipperer's and 15 minutes before TH's phone goes off the grid.

 

[wasnt_me]

This thread by its title is about the post conviction brief so i assumed the info. you were discussing was from there. I asked because i didn't recall reading about any Angela in the PCB so thought i must of missed some of the info. there is all.
TIA means Thankyou in Advance.

I was not talking about Angela in the post you replied to. I was talking about Bobby, where he said TH parked, according to his testimony and answering Missy about why TH would go to SA's door, not Bobby's door.

TIA = Thanks in advance

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk

Thank you, Schmatz.

 

[Karinna]

I was not talking about Angela in the post you replied to. I was talking about Bobby, where he said TH parked, according to his testimony and answering Missy about why TH would go to SA's door, not Bobby's door.

BBM, sorry i quoted the wrong post. This is the one where you mention Angela
(quote)
RSBM
I went over Angela's testimony right quick.

She says on day two page 33-4 that TH called at a little after 11am to say she could make that shoot and Dawn could fax her the info.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes and the answer of where I got that from was in the post. In fact, you just quoted where I got it from. Pages 33-34 of her testimony.

As follows on direct:

13 Q. Let's talk about the 31st, then, of October. And
14 I'm going to ask you, specifically, whether you
15 had any contact with Teresa Halbach, whether you
16 did, any time that day?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Can you tell us when, please?
19 A. Teresa called in shortly after 11:00.
20 Q. 11:00 a.m.?
21 A. 11:00 a.m.
22 Q. What was the purpose of that?
23 A. The purpose was, she was returning Dawn's call
24 from this morning; Dawn had left her a message to
25 see if she was able to take a shoot. And Dawn
34
1 had already left for lunch and I had answered the
2 phone. And Teresa had said -- asked if Dawn was
3 there. I said, no, she was at lunch. And she
4 said, can you just let her know that I will be
5 able to get that shoot; she can fax the
6 information over to me.
7 Q. Verifying that she would be able to take the
8 photo; is that right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Was that the -- Again, based upon your records,
11 was that the photo shoot that you later
12 determined to be at the Steven Avery residence?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Or property. We'll hear from Dawn a little bit
15 later this morning, but other than that call,
16 sometime just after 11:00 a.m.; did you have any
17 other contact with Teresa?
18 A. No

 

[Karinna]

Yes and the answer of where I got that from was in the post. In fact, you just quoted where I got it from. Pages 33-34 of her testimony.

As follows on direct:

13 Q. Let's talk about the 31st, then, of October. And
14 I'm going to ask you, specifically, whether you
15 had any contact with Teresa Halbach, whether you
16 did, any time that day?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Can you tell us when, please?
19 A. Teresa called in shortly after 11:00.
20 Q. 11:00 a.m.?
21 A. 11:00 a.m.
22 Q. What was the purpose of that?
23 A. The purpose was, she was returning Dawn's call
24 from this morning; Dawn had left her a message to
25 see if she was able to take a shoot. And Dawn
34
1 had already left for lunch and I had answered the
2 phone. And Teresa had said -- asked if Dawn was
3 there. I said, no, she was at lunch. And she
4 said, can you just let her know that I will be
5 able to get that shoot; she can fax the
6 information over to me.
7 Q. Verifying that she would be able to take the
8 photo; is that right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Was that the -- Again, based upon your records,
11 was that the photo shoot that you later
12 determined to be at the Steven Avery residence?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Or property. We'll hear from Dawn a little bit
15 later this morning, but other than that call,
16 sometime just after 11:00 a.m.; did you have any
17 other contact with Teresa?
18 A. No

Thanks for clarifying. So this was from original Trial testimony and wasn't mentioned on page 33-34 of Ms. Zellner's PCB from what i have read there. Got it.

 

[missy1974]

I went over Angela's testimony right quick.

She says on day two page 33-4 that TH called at a little after 11am to say she could make that shoot and Dawn could fax her the info.

So the calls still do not line up right on that day. I tried to look at the new phone records, but I can't figure them out.

The new phone records are not easy to follow, and then it seems like there are calls that are missing that were on her cingular records. KZ doesn't give an explanation for that, but it might be something we could hear at a hearing if an employee of AT&T testified.

For example... Dedering in the CASO report http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=7 writes:

The fifth last phone call at 12:44 p.m. would be an incoming from the phone
number 920-254-6635, unknown at that time whose phone number that would have been

The above number belongs to the 3rd Steve that is written on the bottom of her Monday day planner.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-45-Halbach-day-planner.pdf

But I don't see the number on the "new phone records", which is an exhibit attached to the Post Conviction Brief:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-72-New-Halbach-Cell-Records.pdf

It makes it a bit frustrating when we don't have all the answers. ;-)


I have always felt Dawn was sketchy too wasnt_me, she really had no reason to change her story over time. And like KZ pointed out in the brief, the defense sure didn't do there job when it came to cross examining her. Here is another exhibit from the PCB, which includes DCI interviews of Dawn and Rachel at Auto Trader:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-102-Interviews-of-Dawn-Pliszka.pdf

On page 6, you will see how the "Steve called AT" story started/morphed into SA calling, when it is more likely it was Steve #3 that was called by TH's roommate and in turn called AT saying he was not impressed that he was being accused of something and that TH didn't show up. It really makes me wonder if Scott or Ryan called Steve #3 assuming it was Steven Avery?

There is definitely more to this story, I hope some day we find out the truth!

 

[missy1974]

I tried to investigate the differences in the addresses, but Google pulled it up as Steve's house no matter if I put an "A" in the address or put an "N" at the start of the address. But if she knew she was photographing for Janda, why not go to Janda's door first? Well, I think she did. On his way out, Bobby might have told her he didn't have the money and go next door.

RSBM

Avery's address was 12932 Avery Rd.
Janda/Dassey's address was 12930A Avery Rd.

When looking at google maps, it puts the address right smack in the middle of the Salvage yard LOL But, TH had done photo's for Tom Janda and for SA, she knew that there was more than one house out there, if she was given 12930A (which she was according to the lead sheet Dawn faxed her), why go to 12932?

Also according to Angela's DCI interview, Avery was linked to the Janda account.

In the end... the "luring" theory is ridiculous IMO

 

[wasnt_me]

Thanks for clarifying. So this was from original Trial testimony and wasn't mentioned on page 33-34 of Ms. Zellner's PCB from what i have read there. Got it.

Oh, I see. You thought the testimony was in the brief instead of in the trial transcript.

 

[wasnt_me]

The new phone records are not easy to follow, and then it seems like there are calls that are missing that were on her cingular records. KZ doesn't give an explanation for that, but it might be something we could hear at a hearing if an employee of AT&T testified.

For example... Dedering in the CASO report http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=7 writes:

The fifth last phone call at 12:44 p.m. would be an incoming from the phone
number 920-254-6635, unknown at that time whose phone number that would have been

The above number belongs to the 3rd Steve that is written on the bottom of her Monday day planner.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-45-Halbach-day-planner.pdf

But I don't see the number on the "new phone records", which is an exhibit attached to the Post Conviction Brief:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-72-New-Halbach-Cell-Records.pdf

It makes it a bit frustrating when we don't have all the answers. ;-)


I have always felt Dawn was sketchy too wasnt_me, she really had no reason to change her story over time. And like KZ pointed out in the brief, the defense sure didn't do there job when it came to cross examining her. Here is another exhibit from the PCB, which includes DCI interviews of Dawn and Rachel at Auto Trader:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-102-Interviews-of-Dawn-Pliszka.pdf

On page 6, you will see how the "Steve called AT" story started/morphed into SA calling, when it is more likely it was Steve #3 that was called by TH's roommate and in turn called AT saying he was not impressed that he was being accused of something and that TH didn't show up. It really makes me wonder if Scott or Ryan called Steve #3 assuming it was Steven Avery?

There is definitely more to this story, I hope some day we find out the truth!

Oh, I see. I hadn't read these exhibits from the brief. I will do so soon. That sheds some light on things. I thought I was going crazy about those new phone records. It's as if she hadn't had a call until about 2pm, according to them. then I wondered if it was on GMT, like in the Jodi Arias case, and then, I was just like, whatever. I'm going cross-eyed looking at it.

Did you see how in the relief statement, Zellner said she thought the key was on Scott's kitchen counter in that missing person's interview? I've been hopping around, reading parts of the relief, and some of the explanations are kind of amazing to me. I can't tell if that is the key in the picture, but I can say Scott and RH are acting hella weird around that time frame. I personally think that valet key was already in the car because it would make sense that she kept it there, ready to give it to anyone parking or working on her car. Ironically, I never did that, though. Mine from my last car was always at home, and I basically forgot about it.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-23-WFRV-Interview-Stills.pdf

Do you think that's the key in the above photo?

****

Okay, so I read that stuff. Is there more stuff from this Special Agent McGrath?

Did he follow up about Scott's call to Steven #3? I see Dawn still hadn't given the reason to call TH at 227pm.

 

[wasnt_me]

RSBM

Avery's address was 12932 Avery Rd.
Janda/Dassey's address was 12930A Avery Rd.

When looking at google maps, it puts the address right smack in the middle of the Salvage yard LOL But, TH had done photo's for Tom Janda and for SA, she knew that there was more than one house out there, if she was given 12930A (which she was according to the lead sheet Dawn faxed her), why go to 12932?

Also according to Angela's DCI interview, Avery was linked to the Janda account.

In the end... the "luring" theory is ridiculous IMO

I got one of my addresses from the CASO reports.

This is what it gave on top of Bobby Dassey's interview, page 90:

BOBBY A. DASSEY
DOB r0/XX/XX
N12930 Avery Rd.
Two Rivers, WI
Phone 920-755-8715

The other two came from AT records. That is how I came up with three different versions of the address. My Google put the locator right on top of Steven's trailer every time and changed the address I put in to 12932 Avery Rd, without the letters. I figured it meant Google had reindexed the addresses since then. I don't know.

Interesting is that in CASO, page 191, this is Barb's address:
Barbara E. Janda
DOB xxxxx
12930A Avery Rd.
Two Rivers, WI 54241

Maybe it was a typo in Bobby's address.

But I do want to know why go to Steven's house when there are cars in front of Janda's house. Bobby said his car was in the driveway. It might be as simple as you said -- that the police had made Bobby think Steven was trying to implicate him, and we'll never know what really happened if Bobby wasn't telling the whole truth about having contact with her.