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[giagreen]

Is the GB4 different than the LISK? There's far too many abv things going on here.

From what I understand is that there were 11 bodies found (I think it was 11 all togeather I get confused cause I hear 15 sometimes) on Long Island and police think this had been a dumping ground for the past 15 years. Some seem to think it's a dumping ground for more then one serial killer well others think it is the work of one serial killer. And that would be the long island serial killer.
GB4 stands for Gilgo Beach and the four girls we talk about here. And I think it's just used to group the 4 women together and that they were all found on Gilgo Beach...not sure but I think they may have been the only four found on Gilgo Beach. It seems as if people tend to fouces on the four women found on Gilgo Beach because with those four it's pretty clear they were all murdered by the same guy. Or at least that is how I take it.
I hope this helps a little...lol It's all confusing and I'm still trying to figure it all out. I guess I just spent most of my time looking at MBB, MB, MW, ALC just to try and keep it simple for now.
But it's a very good question you asked. I should of thought to ask this same question a long time ago. Maybe another member can help and give there insight.

 

[giagreen]

When you boil it down, the most concrete scenario is of the four Craiglist women found in a common dumping site off of the Long Island Expressway. These are the GB4. Their discovery led to talk of a serial killer on Long Island. The LISK. I won't tell you the circumstances that led to the discovery of the GB4, or the other discoveries on Long Island that are "possibly" related to the GB4. The GB4 are Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelmy, Amber Lynn Costello and Maureen Brainard Barnes. Each of these victims has their own thread in this forum. There you will find all that is known about the circumstances of each, including many links to MSM. It is not really for me to say, but your mission, should you accept it, would be to study those four threads and try to confine yourself to the GB4/LISK.
This message will self-destruct in (well, hopefully, someday)

Thank you Gerontion you did a MUCH MUCH better job then me trying to exsplain this. lol

 

[genericwhitemale]

Is the GB4 different than the LISK? There's far too many abv things going on here.

The GB4 are the four bodies (ALC, MBB, MB, and MW) that were initially found near Gilgo Beach. They're believed to be victims of the LISK. GB4 is just a term used to designate the four victims found during those initial few days after the K-9 unit officer who was out on a training exercise near Gilgo discovered the human remains that led to a search of the area.


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[Aleph]

AstroKitty, your insights have been the most exciting thing to happen to this case in months.

There's [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suTgW5fBSz8"]an episode of 48 Hours[/ame] about this case that will give you a good basic introduction.

 

[Gerontion]

Thank you Gerontion you did a MUCH MUCH better job then me trying to exsplain this. lol

You did good. But I think genericwhitemale did better than both of us. I just worry that AstroKitty, quite understandably, is already getting discouraged. The list of things unsaid, and possibly related, possibly not, is a hundred times longer than the simple basic facts of the very real victims (the GB4) and their killer(s).

 

[deedee21]

The Long Island hotdog hooker was arrested again. Shes a character and she loves the cameras. She has the correction officers cracking up on her way to court.

 

[giagreen]

You did good. But I think genericwhitemale did better than both of us. I just worry that AstroKitty, quite understandably, is already getting discouraged. The list of things unsaid, and possibly related, possibly not, is a hundred times longer than the simple basic facts of the very real victims (the GB4) and their killer(s).

Agreed. I remember when I first started to read all this it was crazy. I just started with one girl at a time then went on to read a little here and there then started posting. And it's still confusing!!!!
One thing I have learned is to bookmark anything you post or find because you will want it later when someone asks for a link or to help you remember.

 

[giagreen]

The Long Island hotdog hooker was arrested again. Shes a character and she loves the cameras. She has the correction officers cracking up on her way to court.

I had to google the long island hotdog hooker never heard of her...but that is funny lol

 

[deedee21]

deedee21, are you saying the "strip club guy" story was about a strip club in Buffalo, before she moved to the Bronx?

Her mother said she met someone at a club in Buffalo. Its obvious he groomed her. He told her how she could make some money at parties. Over time said she could make more money with more participation. This may be the guy she was with in the Bx.

 

[genericwhitemale]

Her mother said she met someone at a club in Buffalo. Its obvious he groomed her.

You mean Johnny Terry, right?


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[Gerontion]

Her mother said she met someone at a club in Buffalo. Its obvious he groomed her. He told her how she could make some money at parties. Over time said she could make more money with more participation. This may be the guy she was with in the Bx.

I thought MB was only and ever a hairdresser while in Buffalo. And that she went to NYC, ostensibly, to open a hair salon. It was while living there that she began exotic dancing. Do you have a link to the mother talking about MB meeting someone in a strip club in Buffalo?

 

[genericwhitemale]

I thought MB was only and ever a hairdresser while in Buffalo. And that she went to NYC, ostensibly, to open a hair salon. It was while living there that she began exotic dancing. Do you have a link to the mother talking about MB meeting someone in a strip club in Buffalo?

This may help a bit.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life.html




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[Gerontion]

This may help a bit.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl... have tried to find it again without success.

 

[genericwhitemale]

Yes, thanks. That link is an oldie but a goodie. I would highly recommend it to AstroKitty. But I am sure she will find it in the MB thread.
But it doesn't talk about the "guy in the strip club". I only ever heard about the "guy in the strip club" in a TV show that I watched when it first aired. I have tried to find it again without success.

It's a nice overview, yes, but it doesn't mention the guy you're referring to. I'll do some digging if you guys can't find it.


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[AstroKitty]

I wanted to shed light on how agencies and pimps get girls from strip clubs. Typically the owner of the agency and one or two of their *best girls (IE - most put together, high-end clothing) go out to strip clubs on a Saturday night. They will order a bottle of champagne which always sends out signals to the dancers that generous people are at their table. They then invite the ones they wish to target, to come have a drink or two. More bottles get ordered and eventually the most money hungry will keep sitting and drinking.

At some point - the owner and his girl(s) will ask a dancer or two (rarely more than 2) to come to the VIP area with them (depending on the club, a private room in the VIP area is between 200-500 an hour). They get the dancer to perform a lap dance on the girl(s) brought with - this way they can see how far she's willing to go for that amount of cash (which is typically the same per hour rate she would charge as an escort) and also what her body looks like down to a thong or fully nude (depends on the club's rules and laws). In the privacy of the room they can gain her confidence and trust. Once the owner walks out to use the bathroom - his company will suddenly divulge how she(or they) know the owner. The talk about how much she earns per night, and "look at my Hermes purse!" "I bought if after 1 night of escorting" sorta hook line and sinker. Other things normally said:

"It's just dating. You don't have to do anything you don't want. It's soooo easy. They usually just want to go to dinner." (total b.s.)

"He's so nice! You couldn't ask for a better manager" (speaking of the agency owner)

"I make about 3 grand a night!"

When the owner comes back from the bathroom, the girl that works for him will start saying "Oh I talked to Mary here and she wants to come work with me" - phone #'s are exchanged, then the talk of "You really shouldn't be in a place like this. you're too smart/too pretty to work around a bunch of drunks in high heels all night for 20 dollars a dance! You can work 1 hour a day and make what you make here all night. Plus no one is going to harrass you or touch you, if you don't want them to".

That's exactly how the deal is sealed and how people are convinced to start into this when the owner goes into the strip club. Sometimes the owner is a female, and if that's the case they don't need as much convincing because a female agency owner is what everyone strives to work for. Often times the agencies are owned by couples, when that's the case they come into the strip clubs together as a "couple" but the VIP room set up is the same deal. Hell, I know of agency couples that take the dancers home for a 3 way and convince em' that way (or order up an escort from a competing agency and sway them to work for them that way too).

when it comes to clubs that aren't as high end and agencies that aren't 500 - 3K an hour, it's still the same sorta song and dance but without the VIP room or champagne (substitute champagne with bottles of Vodka or Tequila and the VIP room with a table towards the back where no one will overhear them and a lot of tipping 5 bucks instead of ones).

 

[giagreen]

I thought MB was only and ever a hairdresser while in Buffalo. And that she went to NYC, ostensibly, to open a hair salon. It was while living there that she began exotic dancing. Do you have a link to the mother talking about MB meeting someone in a strip club in Buffalo?

In this documentary at around 7:30 it talks a bit about a guy who interduced MB into stripping and more. It is a bit intresting that MW and MB can both be linked to being lured into striping by a man at a club. But then it goes on to say he was ruled out as a suspect so IDK but this documentary has lots of info and it's nice to hear it coming from the familys.





[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSG2loJavvI"]Americas Serial Killer True Stories P3 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[AstroKitty]

Is there any videos on Youtube that you guys would recommend that I watch? I really REALLY do not want to read through the threads here. Not only is it overload (and I'm really shaky on abbreviations) but I don't want to get swayed mentally to believe one thing or another. I'm not stating that I'm easily convinced of things, but I can get overwhelmed and start believing assumptions as truth and find myself in a worse mess than when I was totally oblivious to everything.

Before I go look - is there a thread started with JUST updated MSM links? It might be easier if I'm suggested certain victims and just the links to them. One at a time? I feel like Im gonna have to read through everything this week. I will have *some extra time but not a lot. I'm booked starting Monday and will spend most of the early week touring/traveling. My downtime will be few and far inbetween. I know that there's no rush, these cases have been sitting around for awhile. But, I'm one of those types that once I get distracted - I never come back.

I also want you guys to know that I joined this discussion to not only make sure everyone is getting accurate knowledge of what sex workers really go through and deal with (I read so many crazy outlandish theories regarding sex work and human trafficking that I no longer can stand it) but also because if I feel anything I've said may help LE in finding the person(s) responsible for their deaths - I do want to let them know. Im not one that's against police. I do have to walk a fine line though. I wish I could say that LE is receptive to strippers, dominatrixes, escorts etc but even when we are helpful they often times harass us until they can arrest us. That's just the truth in the matter.

I'm rambling - I apologize. I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs awaiting the new season of arrested development to post on Netflix lol

 

[giagreen]

Astro
I would watch this one I am posting there are five parts to it but it has a lot of info. I know of a few others once I find them I will post them for you.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIhi055VroE"]Americas Serial Killer True Stories P1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Gerontion]

To AstroKitty re: strip clubs.
Lovely. Nice racket. I personally feel quite strongly that you could change the name "Mary" to Melissa Barthelmy and be describing exactly what happened to her. Whether or not it took place in Buffalo (which I doubt), or NYC area is my question.
Here is another oldie-but-goodie link about MB:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/...ed/long-island-ripper/melissa-barthelemy.html

 

[Gerontion]

In this documentary at around 7:30 it talks a bit about a guy who interduced MB into stripping and more. It is a bit intresting that MW and MB can both be linked to being lured into striping by a man at a club. But then it goes on to say he was ruled out as a suspect so IDK but this documentary has lots of info and it's nice to hear it coming from the familys.

That's the one! Thanks a bunch. It reconfirms for me that MB fell precisely into the scenario that AstroKitty describes. I can only hope that LE has ruled out the "strip club guy" as being the same guy who kept calling the sister. MB was sharing what she was really up to with her sister. The parents found out from the sister only after MB went missing. My thinking has been that the killer/caller knew that MB shared everything with her sister, and so his calls to her where also to find out exactly how much she knew. Just a theory.