Procedure and legal questions

[Friday]

OT ... Thanks ... I send him pictures EVERY day! Still I worry about him missing this crucial bonding time .... he was deployed when she was 5 weeks old! I try to tell her about daddy ... and when I take a picture, usually with my phone, I say "Smile for Daddy!" When he calls, I put him on speaker phone and say "that's Daddy" ... Honestly, I think she believes "daddy" is a cell phone!

LOL but not really!

It will be okay though!

I'm so embarrassed to tell you that all these months I've thought you were using "Hooah" as a phonetic substitute--with a southern drawl--for the name given to..uh.."working girls." I just couldn't figure how that worked with the word "wife" in your ID.

I'm so ashamed. Although, to my credit, I did like you a lot anyway. :floorlaugh:

PS: I've dated and known male Marines who used that expression, but I'd never seen it spelled out or used by a woman. Duh. LOL

 

[Chezhire]

Louisiana allows it.

Depositions re: allowable vs. not allowable surrounds an accused's right to confront his accusers (US Constitution, 6th Amendment.) Idea being that an accused should have ability to confront accusers/witnesses during his trial, instead of running the risk that the state will depose witnesses prior to trial and then, if the witness "disappears," the state then attempts to offer and introduce the deposition into trial due to the witness' "unavailability."

Appears to me at a quick glance that California, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, DC, Indiana, Iowa, Vermont, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, Nebraska, Michigan, Virginia, all allow it, too, some allowing as a general rule prior to the criminal trial, while others allowing prior to the criminal trial in limited circumstances only.

Arkansas does not allow depositions prior to a criminal trial.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Ok so if I am understanding things, JB could have known where Caylee was (say in August) and he is under no obligation to tell LE. I am sorry if I seem thick as a board on this. I guess where I am getting tripped up is that most of the time when a defense atty takes on a client accused of murder, LE already has the body. So in the rare? case that a defense atty takes on a client that is accused of murder and LE has not found the body, BUT the accused confesses to defense atty and tells him where the body is, most defense attys would convince that client to plea or refuse to take that client on if they had moral scrupples??? I am just mortified that in these cases of missing persons, with evidence that leads LE to presume death, like in the Stacey Petterson case, if Drew told his lawyer where he put Stacey, I am mortified to know that the attorney has no obligation under the law to reveal that (and that there are defense attorneys who would continue to work for such evil people without their own conscience preventing it if they tried but failed to get the accused to plea). Sorry I am rambling but I am just beside myself with this info. jmo

 

[Chezhire]

Ok so if I am understanding things, JB could have known where Caylee was (say in August) and he is under no obligation to tell LE. I am sorry if I seem thick as a board on this. I guess where I am getting tripped up is that most of the time when a defense atty takes on a client accused of murder, LE already has the body. So in the rare? case that a defense atty takes on a client that is accused of murder and LE has not found the body, BUT the accused confesses to defense atty and tells him where the body is, most defense attys would convince that client to plea or refuse to take that client on if they had moral scrupples??? I am just mortified that in these cases of missing persons, with evidence that leads LE to presume death, like in the Stacey Petterson case, if Drew told his lawyer where he put Stacey, I am mortified to know that the attorney has no obligation under the law to reveal that (and that there are defense attorneys who would continue to work for such evil people without their own conscience preventing it if they tried but failed to get the accused to plea). Sorry I am rambling but I am just beside myself with this info. jmo

Hi there :wave:
No duty to reveal and, in fact, has a duty to client to keep his mouth shut :silenced:

 

[missy8394]

Baez said that if Casey were forced to answer the questions for the ZG defamation trial she could incriminate herself in the murder.

In a nutshell-If she uses two different stories, one per trial, can they bring her up on perjury charges?

 

[one_hooah_wife]

I'm so embarrassed to tell you that all these months I've thought you were using "Hooah" as a phonetic substitute--with a southern drawl--for the name given to..uh.."working girls." I just couldn't figure how that worked with the word "wife" in your ID.

I'm so ashamed. Although, to my credit, I did like you a lot anyway. :floorlaugh:

PS: I've dated and known male Marines who used that expression, but I'd never seen it spelled out or used by a woman. Duh. LOL

Oh Wow!!! .. No, One Hooah Wife just meant, in my eyes ... one "good" wife. In the Army, hooah, means everything but NO, but often it means "great." Typically it is used for the affirmative ie, ... "Are we gonna go out there and kick ? ... HOOAH?" Affirmative response "Hooah!!!" Also ... let's say ... "the congress is voting to give the military a raise" ... TCR by the Army ... "Hooah!" ... Laughing! ... I am just laughing at the thought of what you were thinking! No offense taken!

BTW ... Marines say "Hoorah" not "Hooah"! So that may account for the discrepancy! IDK ... maybe?

 

[doogiesgirl]

Hi there :wave:
No duty to reveal and, in fact, has a duty to client to keep his mouth shut :silenced:

Thank you Chezhire, I think I am going to be sick now uke:

O/T :wave: Just got back from picking up son from school, would have responded sooner. I really have to start logging off instead of just walking away!

 

[doogiesgirl]

I just noticed that it is 4:04 and my computer clock says 3:04! I thought my computer would do the daylight savings time change on it own. jmo

 

[Marina2]

Oh Wow!!! .. No, One Hooah Wife just meant, in my eyes ... one "good" wife. In the Army, hooah, means everything but NO, but often it means "great." Typically it is used for the affirmative ie, ... "Are we gonna go out there and kick ? ... HOOAH?" Affirmative response "Hooah!!!" Also ... let's say ... "the congress is voting to give the military a raise" ... TCR by the Army ... "Hooah!" ... Laughing! ... I am just laughing at the thought of what you were thinking! No offense taken!

BTW ... Marines say "Hoorah" not "Hooah"! So that may account for the discrepancy! IDK ... maybe?

I got a good laugh at that, too. Aren't you glad that came out so that you could clear your good name??

On that same note...When my brother was about ten years old he met some children from Hortense, GA. He told me just recently that it wasn't until he grew up that he realized they were saying "Hortense". In all that time, he thought these children lived in "wh-re tents".

 

[amethyst221]

Yes and No

If the deposition was taken under oath and the transcript was signed and sworn accurate, by the deposed ... then under some circumstances their testimony from the deposition can be used in the criminal trial ... most likely though only to impeach testimony given at trial. In depositions, especially civil depositions you have a lot more leeway in questioning. You can ask for hearsay testimony, for example. In civil depositions, the relevance of a question or answer is rarely argued, because in the civil realm almost anything can be argued relevant.

Does that help?

I am looking for any good articles citing FL law concerning parallel proceedings. I will post if I find any.

I found a great one a while back and posted it in a thread, I think about the civil case. I had it bookmarked, but lost it in a computer malfunction. I'll try to find t again.

 

[Themis]

Normally, people go to law school so that they can practice law. Some just do it to know the law better in relation to their other work, though it's a hard three years just for that. <Snipped.> I guess someone could have other, specific reasons for not taking the bar exam right after law school, like going into another line of work, military service, etc.

I guess if you were in process of trying to pass the bar you could do legal related jobs that didn't require you to be a lawyer. There are also some internship sort of programs where people work under the supervision of lawyers before they are admitted to the bar.

Just wanted to point out that lawyers who go into military service as Judge Advocates have to have graduated from an ABA certified law school and must have passed the bar in their jurisdiction. Just so you know.
Edited to add: Applying for a JAG position is also highly competitive and there are selection boards. Then, through out the JAG career there are many competitive (weaning out) career status milestones and selection boards for schools, promotions, positions and assignments. Probably about 1 out of 5 or fewer makes it to retirement. It used to be a lot less.

 

[Chezhire]

Oh Wow!!! .. No, One Hooah Wife just meant, in my eyes ... one "good" wife. In the Army, hooah, means everything but NO, but often it means "great." Typically it is used for the affirmative ie, ... "Are we gonna go out there and kick ? ... HOOAH?" Affirmative response "Hooah!!!" Also ... let's say ... "the congress is voting to give the military a raise" ... TCR by the Army ... "Hooah!" ... Laughing! ... I am just laughing at the thought of what you were thinking! No offense taken!

BTW ... Marines say "Hoorah" not "Hooah"! So that may account for the discrepancy! IDK ... maybe?

So glad to finally understand. I knew I was missing some important piece of information, and that it wasn't meant to sound like it might, but I didn't want to be nosy or offend by asking. Makes total sense now!

 

[Macushla]

I have a question about what JB is and is not allowed to get in regards to the LE working this case. Can he subpeona all their records, notes, etc? Or does he have to just take their written reports? Can he ask for and would he get them if he asked for their cell phone records from July 16 on? I am saying cell phone records because most people use Cell phones now as their business phones. I am not asking about personal cell phone records, but if they had 'official cell phones'. Can he request any notes they may have on official computers? I guess I am wondering what JB is legally entitled to as defense counsel. I know the detectives will testify, and was just wondering how much of their work product and assoicated notes, etc. he can ask for and have a reasonable chance of getting.

By the way, I am loving this thread! Brilliant minds asking brilliant questions and getting even more brilliant answers.

 

[ecs5298]

I have a question about what JB is and is not allowed to get in regards to the LE working this case. Can he subpeona all their records, notes, etc? Or does he have to just take their written reports? Can he ask for and would he get them if he asked for their cell phone records from July 16 on? I am saying cell phone records because most people use Cell phones now as their business phones. I am not asking about personal cell phone records, but if they had 'official cell phones'. Can he request any notes they may have on official computers? I guess I am wondering what JB is legally entitled to as defense counsel. I know the detectives will testify, and was just wondering how much of their work product and assoicated notes, etc. he can ask for and have a reasonable chance of getting.

By the way, I am loving this thread! Brilliant minds asking brilliant questions and getting even more brilliant answers.

Great question. I was thinking about this the other day from the perspective that I'm sure they use their cell phones for some personal use. Is JB going to be able to depose John A's mom or Yuri's grandmother because they called on their OCSO cell phones?

 

[amethyst221]

Just wanted to point out that lawyers who go into military service as Judge Advocates have to have graduated from an ABA certified law school and must have passed the bar in their jurisdiction. Just so you know.
Edited to add: Applying for a JAG position is also highly competitive and there are selection boards. Then, through out the JAG career there are many competitive (weaning out) career status milestones and selection boards for schools, promotions, positions and assignments. Probably about 1 out of 5 or fewer makes it to retirement. It used to be a lot less.

I hope I didn't accidentally offend anyone, because I wasn't even thinking about someone going into the military service TO practice law or suggesting that you didn't have to pass a bar exam, be capable, etc. I was really thinking of someone going into active military service INSTEAD OF practicing law at all right after graduating from law school. Anyway, I agree that the likely explanation for JB may have been that he had to repeat the bar exam.

 

[Themis]

I hope I didn't accidentally offend anyone, because I wasn't even thinking about someone going into the military service TO practice law or suggesting that you didn't have to pass a bar exam, be capable, etc. I was really thinking of someone going into active military service INSTEAD OF practicing law at all right after graduating from law school. Anyway, I agree that the likely explanation for JB may have been that he had to repeat the bar exam.

No offense taken. JAGs are dual hatted both as military officers and as lawyers. You would also be surprised how many lawyers are in active military service as military police, OSI and CID investigators and as commanders. Lawyers can make pretty good commanders. Young lawyers have to be not only licensed and capable to get into JAG now, but they have to be exceptional. The military services can pick and choose among hundreds of applicants.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

THank you sooo much Chez......it puts my mind a little more at ease knowing that JB can't run rough shod over those he is deposing. And the fact that the SA is represented is good to hear.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Mumsy,
Everything Chez said.

Just wanted to add something from the "notes" contained in the Florida Rules, as the notes address the issue of "running rough shod."

(h)(1) The prosecutor and defense counsel are encouraged to
be present for the depositions of essential witnesses, and judges are
encouraged to provide calendar time for the taking of depositions
so that counsel for all parties can attend. This will 1) diminish the
potential for the abuse of witnesses, 2) place the parties in a position
to timely and effectively avail themselves of the remedies and sanctions
established in this rule, 3) promote an expeditious and timely
resolution of the cause, and 4) diminish the need to order transcripts
of the deposition, thereby reducing costs.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy,
Everything Chez said.

Just wanted to add something from the "notes" contained in the Florida Rules, as the notes address the issue of "running rough shod."

(h)(1) The prosecutor and defense counsel are encouraged to
be present for the depositions of essential witnesses, and judges are
encouraged to provide calendar time for the taking of depositions
so that counsel for all parties can attend. This will 1) diminish the
potential for the abuse of witnesses, 2) place the parties in a position
to timely and effectively avail themselves of the remedies and sanctions
established in this rule, 3) promote an expeditious and timely
resolution of the cause, and 4) diminish the need to order transcripts
of the deposition, thereby reducing costs.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

Thank you Miracles......with the way JB hems and haws his questions I can just see him confusing the daylights out of some of the witnesses so it is good to know that there are safeguards in place to prevent this.

Cute dog!!

:clap::clap::clap::blowkiss:

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Thank you Miracles......with the way JB hems and haws his questions I can just see him confusing the daylights out of some of the witnesses so it is good to know that there are safeguards in place to prevent this.

Cute dog!!

:clap::clap::clap::blowkiss:

You're welcome, Mumsy!:blowkiss: You know it's a great question.

Ditto as to
The Procedural Matter Of:Our Dogs


:wolf:

 

[ThoughtElf]

I have a question about what JB is and is not allowed to get in regards to the LE working this case. Can he subpeona all their records, notes, etc? Or does he have to just take their written reports? Can he ask for and would he get them if he asked for their cell phone records from July 16 on? I am saying cell phone records because most people use Cell phones now as their business phones. I am not asking about personal cell phone records, but if they had 'official cell phones'. Can he request any notes they may have on official computers? I guess I am wondering what JB is legally entitled to as defense counsel. I know the detectives will testify, and was just wondering how much of their work product and associated notes, etc. he can ask for and have a reasonable chance of getting.

By the way, I am loving this thread! Brilliant minds asking brilliant questions and getting even more brilliant answers.

Excellent question - we've been educated about work product for the PI's and the CSI techs (i.e. Bloise notes), but I can't recall reading anything about the Detectives' work product rules/guidelines. Would they include cell records, notes, or just the filed reports?

Could you brilliant brains help us out in understanding what the defense might subpeona in regards to the detectives and officers notes?

TYVM!

crazy: Legal Eagles: You do realize that I have a huge bookmark folder devoted solely to links to your great answers, don't you? And I doubt that I am the only one. It's like a mini-law library. We sure do appreciate you.)