Question about military records and case files, reliability?

[space_dinos]

This is a general question but I will provide an example as I'm sure it isn't the last time I will run into such a scenario.

This is the link for the WS thread for UIP known as "Mr.X" found in Edmonton, Alberta Canada, NCMPUR #2014047580 (just as a head's up his page contains coroner photos)

CANADA - Canada - Edmonton, WhtMale, 45-65, knee brace, "Mr. X", Nov'79

It's not written in the case file, but in a news article from The Edmonton Journal it is stated that, "Fingerprints didn’t turn up any matches. He had no criminal record and was not a veteran. There were no missing persons reports filed that matched his description."

Before reading this news article, I had stumbled on a MP named Murray Johnson that I thought could be our UIP, Mr.X (here is my reply to the UIP thread laying out the similarities I found) (also could someone let me know what the difference is between adding a hyperlink versus embedding, as far as posting my reply in the other thread goes)

Murray's MP case file mentions he has a "war wound" on his right leg. It doesn't give any more information than that regarding military service.

Finally, my question, if the UIP is said to not be a veteran, and has no fingerprints on file, does this automatically rule out Murray with his "war wound"? Based on his age, my guess is that this war wound would likely be from WW2. I don't know anything about the reliability of Canadian military records in that time period, or the reliability that such records would still be around and accessible today if LE were to look for fingerprints.

Mr.X passed away very suddenly and was pronounced deceased in hospital, so the fingerprints they took from him would be very reliable.

If his fingerprints were not found in whatever military database LE would have searched through, is this a deal breaker as far as this UIP - MP match up goes?

Would this also mean that Murray has fingerprints on file within the military? His case file doesn't mention that.

I imagine there are many UIP/MP cases with military connections, so generally I am curious as to how reliable these types of records are/have been. I would assume the reliability becomes more solid the closer to the present we are talking about.

Thank you

 

[NJEverCurious]

This is a general question but I will provide an example as I'm sure it isn't the last time I will run into such a scenario.

This is the link for the WS thread for UIP known as "Mr.X" found in Edmonton, Alberta Canada, NCMPUR #2014047580 (just as a head's up his page contains coroner photos)

CANADA - Canada - Edmonton, WhtMale, 45-65, knee brace, "Mr. X", Nov'79

It's not written in the case file, but in a news article from The Edmonton Journal it is stated that, "Fingerprints didn’t turn up any matches. He had no criminal record and was not a veteran. There were no missing persons reports filed that matched his description."

Before reading this news article, I had stumbled on a MP named Murray Johnson that I thought could be our UIP, Mr.X (here is my reply to the UIP thread laying out the similarities I found) (also could someone let me know what the difference is between adding a hyperlink versus embedding, as far as posting my reply in the other thread goes)

Murray's MP case file mentions he has a "war wound" on his right leg. It doesn't give any more information than that regarding military service.

Finally, my question, if the UIP is said to not be a veteran, and has no fingerprints on file, does this automatically rule out Murray with his "war wound"? Based on his age, my guess is that this war wound would likely be from WW2. I don't know anything about the reliability of Canadian military records in that time period, or the reliability that such records would still be around and accessible today if LE were to look for fingerprints.

Mr.X passed away very suddenly and was pronounced deceased in hospital, so the fingerprints they took from him would be very reliable.

If his fingerprints were not found in whatever military database LE would have searched through, is this a deal breaker as far as this UIP - MP match up goes?

Would this also mean that Murray has fingerprints on file within the military? His case file doesn't mention that.

I imagine there are many UIP/MP cases with military connections, so generally I am curious as to how reliable these types of records are/have been. I would assume the reliability becomes more solid the closer to the present we are talking about.

Thank you

It's a great question. I guess my first thought is, could "war wound" be a figure of speech? In other words, is there another source that confirms Mr. Johnson was a veteran?

I can't speak with any kind of expertise or firsthand knowledge about Canada's military databases/records. My thought is that the records from the 1970s may exist as PDF files or similar (from scanning paper copies), which could make it tough to search for fingerprints.

Did you submit Murray Johnson to LE as a possible match for this UIP?

 

[space_dinos]

It's a great question. I guess my first thought is, could "war wound" be a figure of speech? In other words, is there another source that confirms Mr. Johnson was a veteran?

I can't speak with any kind of expertise or firsthand knowledge about Canada's military databases/records. My thought is that the records from the 1970s may exist as PDF files or similar (from scanning paper copies), which could make it tough to search for fingerprints.

Did you submit Murray Johnson to LE as a possible match for this UIP?

I too have wondered if "war wound" was literal or not. There is no other source that I have found so far that confirms any military connection whatsoever.

I have been trying to look through publicly, easily accessible records that I can find online, and I also reached out to government/archives to see if they could help me. I'm not sure if I will be successful there, given that I am entirely unconnected to this man, but finger's crossed!

I have not reached out to LE yet, as I thought it might be better to ask for more experienced opinions on here first. I'm not sure what the typical protocol is for such a thing.

 

[NJEverCurious]

I too have wondered if "war wound" was literal or not. There is no other source that I have found so far that confirms any military connection whatsoever.

I have been trying to look through publicly, easily accessible records that I can find online, and I also reached out to government/archives to see if they could help me. I'm not sure if I will be successful there, given that I am entirely unconnected to this man, but finger's crossed!

I have not reached out to LE yet, as I thought it might be better to ask for more experienced opinions on here first. I'm not sure what the typical protocol is for such a thing.

I've submitted several potential matches to LE over the years. (Not a ton of them. Maybe four.) Sometimes they respond, sometimes not. I think as long as you're polite and concisely lay out why you think there's a possible match, they are typically receptive.

Free advice. The one time I felt there was a match but didn't submit it, the match was made seven years later. I wish I had submitted the tip so the family could have had resolution sooner.

 

[space_dinos]

Just as an update (I will also post in the UIP thread itself)

I reached out to Canada's Missing yesterday to see if they had any more details or could clarify any of my questions, as well as explaining what I had found so far.

They got back to me today to say they have forwarded my information to the investigating agencies involved.

I also got an extremely fast and helpful response to the same questions and request for clarification from The Doe Network Area Director for Canada about these cases. She actually took the time to do some research for me that I hadn't thought to look into myself, I will post it here in case my question about the Canadian military and fingerprinting ever comes up for anyone else during research in cases:

75th Anniversary of the National Identification Services

I will say that a family member has done extensive research on an an ancestor who fought and died for Canada in WW2, and I asked them if the ancestor had any fingerprints on file or if they had ever seen any mention of fingerprints in the file, and they said no. This ancestor was deceased by 1942, and my thought is perhaps the program had not gotten to him yet to add prints to his file, or as my family member suggested, perhaps the program rolled out for new recruits and was not retroactive for active service members before the launch of the program.