Question about Terry Hobbs

[Satch]

This might be elsewhere in this or other threads:

It is a list of suspicious things about Terry Hobbs in relation to his personal life, issues with family, and friends, before and after the murders.

The last part is an interesting comparison and contrast chart between Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers:

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

Satch

 

[Compassionate Reader]

The updated 48 Hours mentioned the hairs that point the finger at Terry H, too. I don't think that enough has been released yet to convict him, but I believe that the defense has more information that would help to make the case against him. I'm hoping that it will come out soon.

 

[Pensfan]

This might be elsewhere in this or other threads:

It is a list of suspicious things about Terry Hobbs in relation to his personal life, issues with family, and friends, before and after the murders.

The last part is an interesting comparison and contrast chart between Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers:

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

Satch

Of all the nasty divorce stories I have heard, this is one of the worst. Pam's family really wants to send Terry to prison.

 

[claudicici]

Wouldn't you want him in prison if he shot your family member?
I'm sure Mildred French would like to see him in prison as well,I'm sure his first wife feels the same way ,he was beating her and abusing their son.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Wouldn't you want him in prison if he shot your family member?
I'm sure Mildred French would like to see him in prison as well,I'm sure his first wife feels the same way ,he was beating her and abusing their son.

If it were only Pam's family, I could see it as revenge. However, with the other things mentioned above and his questionable behavior right after the murders and his evasiveness since the report on the hairs came back, there's just too much smoke for there to be no fire.

 

[Pensfan]

If it were only Pam's family, I could see it as revenge. However, with the other things mentioned above and his questionable behavior right after the murders and his evasiveness since the report on the hairs came back, there's just too much smoke for there to be no fire.

The same is said about Damien's violent psychotic behavior and his violent psychotic statements.

 

[Cappuccino]

Which just proves the truth of what I've been saying all along. You can't convict someone of a crime on the grounds of a bad reputation or previous mental health history. There has to be evidence connecting this specific individual to the crime first, before their history has any relelvance.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

The same is said about Damien's violent psychotic behavior and his violent psychotic statements.

Again, the difference here is the total lack of evidence placing Damien at the discovery ditch or even in contact with Stevie, Michael or Christopher on May 5, 1993. The only things against Damien are his past "mental history" and his tastes, specifically in clothes and music. Since the whole Satanic panic motive is pretty much defunct now (especially since the only one to testify to it was that faux doctor, Griffis), none of that information is truly relevant to the case. As I've said before, I can see the WMPD considering Damien as a suspect, but they should have cleared the most obvious suspects first. They didn't. That and the total lack of evidence against Damien (beside his past mental history, his taste in music and his taste books and maybe his arrogant attitude) is part of the reason that I have determined the three to be innocent of these murders.

 

[Pensfan]

Again, the difference here is the total lack of evidence placing Damien at the discovery ditch or even in contact with Stevie, Michael or Christopher on May 5, 1993. The only things against Damien are his past "mental history" and his tastes, specifically in clothes and music. Since the whole Satanic panic motive is pretty much defunct now (especially since the only one to testify to it was that faux doctor, Griffis), none of that information is truly relevant to the case. As I've said before, I can see the WMPD considering Damien as a suspect, but they should have cleared the most obvious suspects first. They didn't. That and the total lack of evidence against Damien (beside his past mental history, his taste in music and his taste books and maybe his arrogant attitude) is part of the reason that I have determined the three to be innocent of these murders.

Confessions are evidence. Damien Echols bragged about killing these little children to other teens and Damien wrote that HE was homicidal only weeks before the murders. Also recall that Jessie Misskelley confessed numerous times even with his attorney begging him to stop confessing.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Confessions are evidence. Damien Echols bragged about killing these little children to other teens and Damien wrote that HE was homicidal only weeks before the murders. Also recall that Jessie Misskelley confessed numerous times even with his attorney begging him to stop confessing.

Damien's statements, if he made them, were not made to the people who testified that they heard them. That's simply not a "confession." Even the mother of two of the tweens now states that she doubts the seriousness of the statements the girls claim to have overheard.

As to Jessie's statements, these have been discussed at length. When you have an IQ of 72, you're highly suggestible and very susceptible to police manipulation. Jessie just wanted to go home and said whatever he thought in his simple mind that it would take to accomplish that goal.

 

[Pensfan]

Damien's statements, if he made them, were not made to the people who testified that they heard them. That's simply not a "confession." Even the mother of two of the tweens now states that she doubts the seriousness of the statements the girls claim to have overheard.

As to Jessie's statements, these have been discussed at length. When you have an IQ of 72, you're highly suggestible and very susceptible to police manipulation. Jessie just wanted to go home and said whatever he thought in his simple mind that it would take to accomplish that goal.

Jessie's IQ ranged from 72-88 on several different IQ tests. Read his confession TO HIS ATTORNEY here:
http://wm3truth.com/jessie-misskelleys-confession-to-dan-stidham-february-8-1994/

 

[Cappuccino]

So what? I have yet to see why 88 is apparently too high an IQ to make a false confession. First of all, 88 is still not that bright. Secondly, the lowest IQ among the Central Park Five, (all of whom confessed), was 87 - and he had his father with him while he was being interviewed by police.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Jessie's IQ ranged from 72-88 on several different IQ tests. Read his confession TO HIS ATTORNEY here:
http://wm3truth.com/jessie-misskelleys-confession-to-dan-stidham-february-8-1994/

I've read it - multiple times. I don't believe it, and neither did Stidham. That's why it wasn't repeated to LE that day. Nine days later, after LE personnel had unethically continued to question him, he made the statement against his attorneys' wishes because they knew it was perjury. Read the February 22 pre-trial hearing where Stidham explains what happened:

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/prefeb22.html

As to Jessie's IQ, as I have repeatedly explained, an IQ test is in two parts. Jessie's "verbal" part (which tests his ability to reason and calculate - the things most people think about when they think about intelligence) was always scored in the 65 - 74 range. The "performance" part of the IQ test (which tests his ability to function in society) is the part on which once he scored as high as 88. Remember that 90 is considered "normal" for both parts.

The total IQ score is obtained by combining the two scores, with more weight being given to the "verbal" portion. Trying to imply that Jessie scored an 88 on an IQ test is like a student who says, "Yeah, my overall average in all my classes is a 72, but once I got an 88 in PE!" Jessie's total IQ score has consistently been in the 70 - 74 range, which makes him borderline mentally retarded.

 

[Pensfan]

Damien's statements, if he made them, were not made to the people who testified that they heard them. That's simply not a "confession." Even the mother of two of the tweens now states that she doubts the seriousness of the statements the girls claim to have overheard.

As to Jessie's statements, these have been discussed at length. When you have an IQ of 72, you're highly suggestible and very susceptible to police manipulation. Jessie just wanted to go home and said whatever he thought in his simple mind that it would take to accomplish that goal.

Really? Do you have a link for this?

I think Jessie had a street smart IQ that scored in the upper normal range. He also had a conscience.

 

[claudicici]

http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/docs/suggestibility.htm

However, all of the research shows that people with low IQ scores are even more suggestible (as measured by the Gudjonsson Suggestibility Scales) than those with higher IQ’s. Clare and Gudjonsson studied people with IQ’s from 57-75, and found them to be much more susceptible to leading questions than normals. They concluded that those with limited intellectual ability are potentially vulnerable to giving erroneous testimony during interrogations, as intelligence and suggestibility are negatively correlated.

 

[Pensfan]

http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/docs/suggestibility.htm

However, all of the research shows that people with low IQ scores are even more suggestible (as measured by the Gudjonsson Suggestibility Scales) than those with higher IQ’s. Clare and Gudjonsson studied people with IQ’s from 57-75, and found them to be much more susceptible to leading questions than normals. They concluded that those with limited intellectual ability are potentially vulnerable to giving erroneous testimony during interrogations, as intelligence and suggestibility are negatively correlated.

IQ is only ONE factor of many that determines suggestibility. Gudjonsson (1990) asserts that the five most psychologically relevant factors when addressing the legal issues of suggestibility are: intellectual skills, education, compliance, the ability to cope with pressure, and acquiescence.

Gudjonsson, G. H. (1990). The relationship of intellectual skills to suggestibility, compliance and acquiescence. Personality and Individual Differences, 11, 227- 231.

 

[Cappuccino]

IQ is only ONE factor of many that determines suggestibility. Gudjonsson (1990) asserts that the five most psychologically relevant factors when addressing the legal issues of suggestibility are: intellectual skills, compliance, the ability to cope with pressure, and acquiescence.

Gudjonsson, G. H. (1990). The relationship of intellectual skills to suggestibility, compliance and acquiescence. Personality and Individual Differences, 11, 227- 231.

Yes, thank you for that Pensfan. That makes it even clearer to me why Jessie confessed, given other things I've heard about him.

Btw, in regard to false confessors generally, another relevant factor is age - juveniles interviewed without a parent, guardian or attorney present are in a high risk group for false confessions.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Really? Do you have a link for this?

I think Jessie had a street smart IQ that scored in the upper normal range. He also had a conscience.

Dr. Derning discussed this in his testimony at the Rule 37 Hearings.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_derning.html

When Derning tested him, Jessie's "performance" score was only 77 while his "verbal" score was 71. Derning also mentions his susceptibility.

ETA: Here's a link that discusses the meaning of various IQ scores:

http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq04.htm

Here's another:

http://wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html

Please note that the lowest IQ score to be considered "normal" is 90.

 

[Pensfan]

Please note that the lowest IQ score to be considered "normal" is 90.

Do some research. There are many "brands" of IQ tests and few list 90 as a cut off for "normal". Jessie's IQ was not in the mental retardation range. Realize that many people that you interact with on a daily basis have IQs in the 80s. This is not "retarded" and neither is an IQ in the 70s. Here is a list of some:

Manager Food Dept, Mechanic, Register Sales, Account Exec. Administrative Asst. Manager, Store Clerk, Accounting Collector, Bad Debt Operator, Computer Rep., Cust. Srvc. Sales Rep., Insurance Technician, Automotive Salesman, Clerk, Typist, Dispatcher Office, Receptionist, Cashier,
Clerical, General Inside Sales Clerk, Meter Reader, Printer, Teller, Quality Control Chkr. Claims Clerk, Driver, Deliveryman, Guard, Security Labor, Unskilled Maintenance Operator, Machine Arc Welder, Medical-Dental Asst., Messenger, Production Factory Assembler, Food Service Worker, Nurse's Aide
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/g-jobsfigure1.pdf

 

[Compassionate Reader]

One article I read about IQs said that the mean (average) IQ score is 100. Another listed 95 as the low end of the normal range. Yet another listed it as 90, which is the score I used. It was the lowest one that I found.

Yes, people with IQ's below "normal" can lead full lives. People who are "borderline" (which one article listed as 70 - 79) can also function in society, hence Jessie's much higher "performance" element to the IQ test. I am not saying that Jessie is retarded but "borderline mentally retarded" which is the way the classification was listed for those of my students in the 70 - 74 full score IQ range, which is what I have always called it "borderline."

I realize that there are a variety of IQ tests. Some are designed for young children while some are designed for adults. The WAIS is the most widely accepted test IMO and is the one which Jessie took. I fail to see the significance of the fact that there are many different types of tests. What is important is the interpretation of the test. Every time Jessie was tested, his full scale IQ score was consistently in the 70 - 74 range, which places him in the borderline mentally retarded category.