Ransom note analysis

[tovarisch]

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Thanks, Muy for your tedious work.
It`s so telling. Thousands words and hours some people spent on convincing the naïve others, that Patsy`s handwriting was a match should be disregarded for ever. I wonder how somebody were so blind that mixed Patsy`s feminine round and accurate handwriting with THIS ?

 

[icedtea4me]

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Sorry. Accidentally clicked on wrong post.

 

[icedtea4me]

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In one of her left-handed writing samples in which she wrote a story that was dictated to her, Patsy wrote the 'f'' in 'follow' the same way it appears in example #7.

 

[tovarisch]

In one of her left-handed writing samples in which she wrote a story that was dictated to her, Patsy wrote the 'f'' in 'follow' the same way it appears in example #7.

People, who have eyes, they see.
Words are useless.

 

[Tawny]

Talking about waste of time:
talking about old disproven theories for two decades and going nowhere, not one inch forward, nothing fresh, nothing new
relying on media, magazines and books
sharing idea that prosecutors assigned to the case either corrupted or lacking intelligence
denying forensics
thinking that disqualified agents and people tried in court of law are only not corrupted and know the ultimate true
fighting opinions of others with the sword, claws, what else...
Patsy`s left hand, right hand, left hand in glove, Patsy written in hurry, Patsy spent hours to alter--- no . It`s still does not match her handwriting when put side by side.
And that`s exactly why she had never been identified as an author.
By the experts who had been paid by the state and served to the state, who`s opinion permitted in the court. Others do not apply, regardless of how much they`d been paid.

Do you have proof that the handwriting analysts who couldn't exclude PR have been paid off to say so? That's a pretty serious accusation, IMHO.

 

[Muy Curioso]

I hope someone can recognize some letters in someone's handwriting. Maybe in a letter, in school book ...

 

[tovarisch]

Do you have proof that the handwriting analysts who couldn't exclude PR have been paid off to say so? That's a pretty serious accusation, IMHO.

No, you said it, not me.
What I said some experts opinion does not matter unless permitted in court. Does not matter how much paid, still are not permitted.

 

[Tawny]

No, you said it, not me.
What I said some experts opinion does not matter unless permitted in court. Does not matter how much paid, still are not permitted.

I said what? My question to you was literally my first post in this thread...

 

[andreww]

Talking about waste of time:
talking about old disproven theories for two decades and going nowhere, not one inch forward, nothing fresh, nothing new
relying on media, magazines and books
sharing idea that prosecutors assigned to the case either corrupted or lacking intelligence
denying forensics
thinking that disqualified agents and people tried in court of law are only not corrupted and know the ultimate true
fighting opinions of others with the sword, claws, what else...
Patsy`s left hand, right hand, left hand in glove, Patsy written in hurry, Patsy spent hours to alter--- no . It`s still does not match her handwriting when put side by side.
And that`s exactly why she had never been identified as an author.
By the experts who had been paid by the state and served to the state, who`s opinion permitted in the court. Others do not apply, regardless of how much they`d been paid.

Not really a fair statement as there hasn't been a trial, so you have no clue what the experts would have said. In my opinion they all seem to have an opinion that Patsy may have written the note, so for you to come here and insinuate that the handwriting does not match is a little odd. In past posts I have showed that Patsy's writing is sometimes identical to what is in the note. In other posts I have proved that Patsy was purposely disguising her writing style after the crime. You were in characteristically silent after those posts. And what do you have against the experts being paid? Do experts work for free in your country?


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[tovarisch]

Not really a fair statement as there hasn't been a trial, so you have no clue what the experts would have said. In my opinion they all seem to have an opinion that Patsy may have written the note, so for you to come here and insinuate that the handwriting does not match is a little odd. In past posts I have showed that Patsy's writing is sometimes identical to what is in the note. In other posts I have proved that Patsy was purposely disguising her writing style after the crime. You were in characteristically silent after those posts. And what do you have against the experts being paid? Do experts work for free in your country?

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I believe in liability of a professional, and unless the experts are liable for the opinion that they have formed , and unless they are ready to present and defend their opinion in the COURT with the FULL LIABILITY for every word they said, their opinion does not have weight for me.
I honestly do not know the name of an expert in JB`s case who would testify at the trial with the full liability, I honestly believe there were none of readily formed opinion of the experts who would have been qualified by the court and who would testify if needed. Please, feel free and prove that I`m wrong and help me with the name and this expert`s fully formed opinion, whose methods and technic were suitable for the court.

Concerning my country. I have two countries, I`m the lucky one. In my other country, experts for the trial of this magnitude, or any other trial, would have been members of academy of science with recognized credit for their expertize, with modern methods and and technology applied to their opinion. They are not paid much. It does not matter. Matter is that they will stand by every word with MODERN METHODS of their findings.

Concerning my silence. There is no silence on my part, I thought that I`m quit contrary....

Handwriting does not match, my opinion, for the naked eye. If I knew the technic, I would apply and prove it with the technic.

I will wait for the name of an expert who , you believe, formed his opinion for the court, please provide. And of course, the only names of those, whose qualification, methods and technic were admissible.

 

[andreww]

Well the case never went to trial so we'll never know what experts were willing to say, will we?

The thing about handwriting analysis is that actual letters are very simple. Most characters are formed of one or two lines. It is difficult to say with certainty that Patsy wrote the note for two reasons, it was written with a sharpie and Patsy deliberately altered her writing style in the samples she provided police. The RN is very consistent in its character formations, so we can probably say that the only effort to mask their identity was to print rather than write. In samples of Patsy's printing provided after the fact, the characters are not uniform from beginning to end. For every character I examined, they started as something completely different than the RN, then as she wrote more, the morphed in to something very similar to the RN. Not once did I find a character that started looking similar to the RN, that would morph in to something different. It is blatantly obvious that Patsy was making a deliberate attempt to alter her writing style. The experts matched her writing as best they could, by character formation and paragraph and sentence structure, but as she was being deceptive, the could not make a 100% conclusion. But you have to ask yourself what the odds are that a complete stranger (intruder) would have handwritting that similar to Patsy's?

I believe if there had been a trial, those are the types of things the experts would have testified to. They didn't have to conclusively identify her, but their testimony could be damning nonetheless.


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[Tawny]

PR's handwriting from before the ransom note and her handwriting after the ransom note don't match. So did she not write all of those Christmas letters?

Of course she did. She changed what she could of her handwriting after she wrote the ransom note to confuse analysts. It didn't work, since no one excluded her as a possible author.

 

[tovarisch]

Well the case never went to trial so we'll never know what experts were willing to say, will we?


I believe if there had been a trial, those are the types of things the experts would have testified to. They didn't have to conclusively identify her, but their testimony could be damning nonetheless.


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If for example, you are an expert, who is ready to condemn people and send them to the hell for the rest of their life with your handwriting analysis , and I`m for example the judge, I would request that you are serious expert, you better have your basis , otherwise you are wasting my precious time.

 

[Landonsmom02]

when I went to look at samples at ACR, you can clearly see that before the RN, she wrote her lower case a's like this and then after she changed to the a with the tail at the bottom-when printing. When she was in cursive she wrote a "normal" a. Not like the ones when typing here. Anybody understand?? lol

 

[Tawny]

If for example, you are an expert, who is ready to condemn people and send them to the hell for the rest of their life with your handwriting analysis , and I`m for example the judge, I would request that you are serious expert, you better have your basis , otherwise you are wasting my precious time.

They are professionals in their field. Why would they have vendettas or agendas against the people whose handwriting they are analyzing?

 

[Tawny]

And to add, I'm pretty sure the samples don't have "PATSY RAMSEY SAMPLE 1" at the top. They very likely have numbers, the analyst would have no idea whose sample it is. Anyone know for sure?

 

[andreww]

If for example, you are an expert, who is ready to condemn people and send them to the hell for the rest of their life with your handwriting analysis , and I`m for example the judge, I would request that you are serious expert, you better have your basis , otherwise you are wasting my precious time.

What on earth makes you think that any of the experts weren't serious about their profession? If you were to have one expert testify saying "I can't say with 100% certainty that Patsy wrote the note, but in my opinion it is highly likely that she did", it may not hold a lot of weight. If you were to have five different experts testify with the same opinion, it starts to carry a lot more weight. How many experts examined that note and positively ruled Patsy out as the author? None, including the Ramsey's ow expert. And you don't think that it is an astronomical coincidence that in world without billion different handwriting styles, the person that killed Jonbenet happened to have a handwriting style so similar to one of the two adults in the house, that it could not be eliminated by any of the half dozen or so experts that examined it? You represent yourself as person of logic, but there seems to be many instances where you are thinking with your heart instead of your head.

 

[tovarisch]

They are professionals in their field. Why would they have vendettas or agendas against the people whose handwriting they are analyzing?

Tawny, don`t. First you`ve tried me for bribery accusation, now you are trying for vendetta. Neither.

When is come to such a subtle subject as handwriting expertise, you HAVE to have basis, consisted of modern methods, applicable in the field to have a weight. There are modern methods existing in this field.
They, experts, might have been sincere in their believe, sincerity do not apply, unless methods shown.
Please, refer to the methods they used.

 

[Tawny]

YOU are the one saying they can't be trusted because they're "paid" professionals. What else am I to derive from that?

 

[tovarisch]

From the history, it may help you to understand what I`m trying and trying to say:


"Consideration of Epstein'. Testimony That He Was Absolutely Certain that Mrs. Ramaey Wrote the Ransom Note
The Court has earlier indicated its conclusion that there is insufficient reliability to Mr. Epstein's methodology to permit him to state his conclusion that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the Ransom Note. As noted supra, Epstein opined that he is "100 percent certain" that Patsy Ramsey wrote the Ransom Note and that "there is absolutely no doubt" that she is the author. Supra at 51. The Court believes its conclusion on the admissibility of this evidence to be correct. Further, as the identify of the writer is virtually the only evidence that plaintiff can offer to shoulder its burden, then the question of the identity of the writer is synonymous with the underlying question in this litigation: did Mrs. Ramsey kill her child. Nevertheless, even if the Court were to permit Epstein to testify as to the above conclusion, the Court does not believe his testimony would provide the "clear and convincing evidence" necessary for a reasonable finder of fact to conclude that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the note.