Raven's Mission

[Jenifred]

he was born in 1979.

Thanks, lj. Does anyone know when Janet and Raven were engaged?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Thanks for the information, Jenifred. So it seems that lying about serving a mission is not something that would be out of the question since not serving seems to be a bit of an embarassment in certain circumstances.

We might have covered this before, and please forgive me if these are stupid questions.

1) Is there something one can get (materially) by being married in the Temple?

2) Is serving a mission a lot of hard work? (I'm not really sure of all that's entailed.)

My reason for asking is out of curiousity if Raven did not serve because 1) he didn't truly believe in what he was to be teaching and only got married in the Temple for what he could get out of it. Or 2) that maybe the mission was too much work and he was only looking to get what he could from the Church (food/rent, etc.) without giving anything to them.

Of course, it may be that he genuinely did have a medical issue as well. I don't know. Just trying to consider all possibilities. (Of course if there was a genuine medical issue, it seems to me that he wouldn't have felt the need to lie about it.)

 

[terminatrixator]

I heard it was a medical issue from some sources and others I heard he didn't go on the mission because he had a problem with "anxiety."

 

[Jenifred]

1) Is there something one can get (materially) by being married in the Temple?

2) Is serving a mission a lot of hard work? (I'm not really sure of all that's entailed.)

To answer your questions....here are my opinions

1) No, you don't get any material things from being married in the Temple. However, it kind of carried the same embarassment as not going on a mission. People will always wonder why you didn't get married in the temple. Or why you haven't been sealed in the temple later (you can get sealed in the Temple later if you don't actually get married and sealed in the temple at the same time). Devoted Latter-Day Saints will either have gotten married in the temple or sealed later (BTW, you can't be sealed/married in the temple unless both individuals are members of the church and in good standing). I personally know of people that have lied to get married in the temple, they pay the consequences later--either excommunication or disfelloshipment (is that a word?).

2) Yes, serving a mission is hard work. I've got a brother in CA right now on his mission. He's always writing and telling us how busy he is. You are required to make contacts, teach lessons, if you are a leader of some kind you have to keep track of the missionaries in specified areas. Then on top of all of that stuff, the missionary needs time for personal study and prayer too. They are always going. Then on top of that there are missionaries overseas, and that's quite a shock to be in a different culture, speaking a foreign language and dealing with all those challenges.

My take on Raven not going on a mission is this: From my observations and knowledge of Raven, I don't think he was worthy, I don't think he was capable enough to hack it, and I think he knew these things and wasn't going to even attempt it. Personally, I'm glad he didn't go--at least he only lied a few times (through all of the interviews he had to have before he got a mission call--at least he didn't go out and be a crappy companion to someone who wanted to work hard, he didn't have to lie and say he believed in what he didn't really believe in).

 

[Jenifred]

I heard it was a medical issue from some sources and others I heard he didn't go on the mission because he had a problem with "anxiety."

Right, a medical issue? :liar: Don't make me laugh. It's not like joining the service where they won't let you serve because you have a bum knee. Staying in the states is a option for missionaries that want to serve but might have a problem and need to be medicated for something like anxeity.

Plus, he's been a soccer player forever, there's no way that he was unable to go because of a medical problem. I bet he's pretty fit (even if he's packed on a few pounds in the recent past).

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.....isn't that how the song goes?

 

[terminatrixator]

If it's not about him it doesn't matter, lie and deny is what he does very well. He's practiced it for a long time.

I'm sure he lied about whatever was ailing him at the time, I think he didn't want to go period.

He was definitely not worthy and not worthy of Janet either.

 

[juliagoulia]

I don't think he wanted to go, either. Even if he was unworthy (which he probably was), you can still repent and go. Missionaries are young guys. Young guys make mistakes. Hard-working, dedicated souls are willing to do what is necessary to become worthy--mainly TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Raven has never struck me as that kind of person. He certainly isn't now.

 

[lauriej]

To answer your questions....here are my opinions

1) No, you don't get any material things from being married in the Temple. However, it kind of carried the same embarassment as not going on a mission. People will always wonder why you didn't get married in the temple. Or why you haven't been sealed in the temple later (you can get sealed in the Temple later if you don't actually get married and sealed in the temple at the same time). Devoted Latter-Day Saints will either have gotten married in the temple or sealed later (BTW, you can't be sealed/married in the temple unless both individuals are members of the church and in good standing). I personally know of people that have lied to get married in the temple, they pay the consequences later--either excommunication or disfelloshipment (is that a word?).

2) Yes, serving a mission is hard work. I've got a brother in CA right now on his mission. He's always writing and telling us how busy he is. You are required to make contacts, teach lessons, if you are a leader of some kind you have to keep track of the missionaries in specified areas. Then on top of all of that stuff, the missionary needs time for personal study and prayer too. They are always going. Then on top of that there are missionaries overseas, and that's quite a shock to be in a different culture, speaking a foreign language and dealing with all those challenges.

My take on Raven not going on a mission is this: From my observations and knowledge of Raven, I don't think he was worthy, I don't think he was capable enough to hack it, and I think he knew these things and wasn't going to even attempt it. Personally, I'm glad he didn't go--at least he only lied a few times (through all of the interviews he had to have before he got a mission call--at least he didn't go out and be a crappy companion to someone who wanted to work hard, he didn't have to lie and say he believed in what he didn't really believe in).

..wow...to go on a mission is quite impressive, i cannot imagine raven going.....although i don't know him, from what i've heard, he just doesn't sound "mission worthy"..( to be on top of his own studies, as well as teaching others---------??!!) i just don't see raven having "the work ethic" to do so...

..you've also mentioned that to be married in the temple requires that both members be "in good standing with the church"...we do know that they were married in the temple ............what was required of them to be "in good standing"? or more specifically, what did raven DO/what were HIS qualifications ,at the time ,to be married in the temple ?

 

[Jenifred]

..you've also mentioned that to be married in the temple requires that both members be "in good standing with the church"...we do know that they were married in the temple ............what was required of them to be "in good standing"? or more specifically, what did raven DO/what were HIS qualifications ,at the time ,to be married in the temple ?

Here are the questions:
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity? (Fidelity in marriage, sexual abstinance before marriage)

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer? (10% of income is paid to the church--to be a full-tithe payer, you've got to do this 100% of the time)

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom? (No drinking, no smoking, no elicit drug use, moderation in all things)

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment (ceremonial clothing we wear to remind us of our temple comenants) both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

[newkid]

Right, a medical issue? :liar: Don't make me laugh. It's not like joining the service where they won't let you serve because you have a bum knee. Staying in the states is a option for missionaries that want to serve but might have a problem and need to be medicated for something like anxeity.

Plus, he's been a soccer player forever, there's no way that he was unable to go because of a medical problem. I bet he's pretty fit (even if he's packed on a few pounds in the recent past).

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.....isn't that how the song goes?

I remember in the past discussing the possibility that Raven may be bipolar. If this is the case, that could very likely be the medical reason. I have a medical background as well as contact with individuals who suffer from this disorder and know that it can be difficult to find the right medication and right dose. It's also often a problem to get a person to stay on their medication.

Bipolar disorder also has a stigma associated. People don't want to share the fact that they are taking antipsychotics or are having trouble finding the right mood stabilizer. He may not have wanted to tell everyone, or even discuss it in front of others.

Also, in my experience, it's not uncommon to find in an individual diagnosed with bipolar disorder (and many other mental disorders as well), a history of drug or alcohol abuse (as their attempt to self medicate) as well as promiscuity.

I'm not excusing anything, just offering possible theories. He may not have been living up to the required standards, but there may be an underlying problem as well, such as bipolar disorder.

 

[terminatrixator]

I have heard that he was labeled bipolar also, and I have known personally, worked with, helped with, dealth with, many people that have been treated for for bipolar, and I have known those that have not adjusted well to their meds or refused to take their meds.

I do understand that many feel there is a "stigma" to being labeld as bipolar, and one of the issues with bipolar disorder is not wanting to take the meds because they think they don't need it, don't like the way they feel on it and I have actually known some that enjoy the episodes of hypomania.

This would also help to explain his lack of need for sleep, his hyperness, his boughts with self-introspection, his violent tendencies, his sexual promiscuity, but besides having issues with bipolar I also believe he is an accomplished sociopath.

Whether or not he has been diagnosed as bipolar, it will not be an excuse for murder, and it will not help him with the insanity defense.

"The use of the insanity defense in cases of psychopathy is rare and almost uniformly unsuccessful."

The legal concept of insanity is different from the psychiatric concept of mental illness. Frequently, a person whose mental illness is not under dispute will be determined sane as the court will argue that despite a "mental illness" the defendant should still be held responsible; such a ruling is known as either a Guilty but Mentally Ill (GBMI) or a Guilty but Insane verdict. Michigan (1975) was the first state to pass a GBMI verdict. Sometimes a person without mental illness can be found to be insane; for example, a person who is acting under the influence of a drug that was involuntarily administered (though voluntary intoxication has been rejected by most jurisdictions as a defence to crime)

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery...xt=insanity defense&linktext=insanity defense

 

[newkid]

Oh no, I'm not addressing any possible legal defense. I'm only suggesting that if he is bipolar, that could be the medical reason for not completing a mission.

 

[terminatrixator]

Oh no, I'm not addressing any possible legal defense. I'm only suggesting that if he is bipolar, that could be the medical reason for not completing a mission.

Newkid, I believe this may be the excuse used, and I'm not doubting that Raven may be bipolar.

I'm sorry, sometimes I am too blunt, and it comes across as I am chastising someone in my posting.

My heart is in the right place, but sometimes I am very blunt and come across as a complete and utter b****, which of course, I am, but I did not mean any disrespect to you.

I am very preoccupied with what I am thinking about sometimes, and my posting comes across sounding more forceful or brutal than intended.

(edited to add, unless in the case of speaking directly to The Raven, in those instances, every word I say, I am saying in as forceful, brutally honest, blunt way, with a complete scowl on my face, veins popping in my forehead and believe me it is done with complete and utter disgust for him.)

 

[newkid]

Trixie
Not a problem. I didn't think you were disrespectful and I'm not easily offended. I was just clarifying my response. I have found that it's hard to get the right tone across in message boards and I tend to be rather wordy which only exacerbates the problem so I was just trying to restate my thought.

 

[terminatrixator]

Trix
Not a problem. I didn't think you were disrespectful and I'm not easily offended. I was just clarifying my response. I have found that it's hard to get the right tone across in message boards and I tend to be rather wordy which only exacerbates the problem so I was just trying to restate my thought.

Thank you for your response.

As you may be able to tell I'm extremely wordy though not easily offended either but wanted to clarify myself also.

I understand everyone is working towards the same goal, and that is Justice for Janet and her precious baby, Kaiden and all the family & friends of Janet Marie.

 

[Jenifred]

I'm not excusing anything, just offering possible theories. He may not have been living up to the required standards, but there may be an underlying problem as well, such as bipolar disorder.

Alright, I'll give it to you there. It probably would be very difficult for someone with bipolar disorder to go on a mission, but I also think that if someone with that disorder really wanted to go, they'd stay on their meds and do what's needed to keep them even. JMO, but that you've got a valid argument.

 

[newkid]

It probably would be very difficult for someone with bipolar disorder to go on a mission, but I also think that if someone with that disorder really wanted to go, they'd stay on their meds and do what's needed to keep them even.

I totally agree. Fortunately help is available, but one can choose whether or not to follow treatment plans.

 

[NCBanker]

We should change the title of this thread from "Raven's Mission" to "Did Raven Serve a Mission?" I think we've determined that he in fact did NOT serve one.

 

[Moxie]

We should change the title of this thread from "Raven's Mission" to "Did Raven Serve a Mission?" I think we've determined that he in fact did NOT serve one.

Or we could change the title to "The lies Raven told about his Mission" :dance:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Whether or not he has been diagnosed as bipolar, it will not be an excuse for murder, and it will not help him with the insanity defense.

Especially considering that he's been proclaiming his innocence for 9 months. To claim insanity AFTER being charged will only serve to make it obvious that he knew exactly what he was doing, and knew it was wrong - if not, he would have admitted it when he called 911 that night. If he's charged with this crime, I'm sure that the people that interacted with him that night will be able to recall if he seemed like someone that was coherent or not.