Read this - Post from another hiker- details about GMH a bit..

[Alex]

To Pure Maple Syrup: It hooks up to the Dawson forest, clearly his preferred dumping ground, via those secluded FS roads out of there southwards.

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter. When I was there, it was so old and moldy that I would have guessed it pre-dated the road. Did they rebuild it on top of the old stacked rock foundation? Back when I was there, it couldn't have been more than 300 yards from the road, which, as best as I can recall, was the closest to a fast road of any of the AT shelters in Georgia. And with the old one, the latrine was so close to it, he could've watched from there any solo females using the latrine, to estimate their vulnerabilties by body language etc.. I have law enforcement in my family who agreed with me that the set-up of a shelter so close to a fast hard surface dirt road which led right down to Dahlonega was a big mistake. No law enforcement personnel I've talked to would ever let their loved ones camp so close to a major thoroughfare. The locals use that road just as if it were paved to go over towards Hwy 52 and the Dahlonega area. I don't know if you had any occasion to access a store from that location but the road also leads straight away northwards to the Suches Valley (Hwy 66?), and from there, another paved road (180?) cuts over past Lake Winfield Scott to the Reece Loop where Meredith was kidnapped.

Refusing to let any hiker into the shelter, at least where it was years ago, would've forced the hiker to use the flat area immediately adjacent to the road...and therefore...adjacent in just a few yards...to his parked van. I don't think I need to explain how that would be perfect for his MO.
To him it would be like sitting in survey of a large box of chocolates, any one of which he could pick up and toss in his van at his whim.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you. I hope the mods are on duty to dump this post if they don't like it.

I never suggested that folks are not just as much at risk for crimes of other descriptions at any of the other shelters, only that this shelter was especially well laid out for Hilton's MO.

Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?

 

[Native New Yorker]

Truly, that sounds really creepy and odd!

Alex, thanks for all your trail insights. Any thoughts I might have had of hiking in the future are now out of the question for me! I almost think I would feel safer in some ways, in a NYC subway.....just too many wide open spaces in public parks for my taste...

I also think that we must not lose sight of the dog factor in all of this....I do not think that Meredith would have spent one minute talking to this guy, had her dog not been off leash, and running with his cute and friendly dog.
His dog was very disarming, and I feel that it distracted more than one person from GMH, at least long enough for his purposes.
I have spent many years at dog parks, where all dogs are off leash. That fact causes a peculiar vulnerability for some, though not all owners. I have seen more than one owner trying to leave for over an hour, and being unable to corral their dog. Once the dog is off leash, the balance of power shifts, UNLESS the dog is perfectly trained, as I am sure Dandy was.

I also must tell you that I no longer go to dog parks, as I have seen too many negative incidents, dog bites, owner fights....there are just too many uncontrolled variables, and I would imagine that public lands or parks would be even more that way....

With GMH, we had the combination then, of a monster who knew those trails backwards and forward, knew all the shelters and hiding places, and had an unwitting accomplice, I firmly believe, in his dog.

 

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter.

Yes, six years ago. See attached image, below, for what it looks like now.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you.

Huh?

 

[Native New Yorker]

I personally do not think that GMH went to any hiker gatherings whatsoever. Ever. I think that he was strictly a predator/loner, who was always on the prowl, but from a distance.

I even doubt that he even interacted with other dog owners who might have been hiking. That would have been too risky for him.

Truly, I guess I just found it odd that no one in the journals commented right away on Meredith. The weather just before her kidnapping was indeed very warm, so I can see how that would have been commented on.

Any thoughts from any of you on my dog theories?

 

[panglossian]

Truly, that sounds really creepy and odd!

Alex, thanks for all your trail insights. Any thoughts I might have had of hiking in the future are now out of the question for me! I almost think I would feel safer in some ways, in a NYC subway.....just too many wide open spaces in public parks for my taste...

I also think that we must not lose sight of the dog factor in all of this....I do not think that Meredith would have spent one minute talking to this guy, had her dog not been off leash, and running with his cute and friendly dog.
His dog was very disarming, and I feel that it distracted more than one person from GMH, at least long enough for his purposes.
I have spent many years at dog parks, where all dogs are off leash. That fact causes a peculiar vulnerability for some, though not all owners. I have seen more than one owner trying to leave for over an hour, and being unable to corral their dog. Once the dog is off leash, the balance of power shifts, UNLESS the dog is perfectly trained, as I am sure Dandy was.

I also must tell you that I no longer go to dog parks, as I have seen too many negative incidents, dog bites, owner fights....there are just too many uncontrolled variables, and I would imagine that public lands or parks would be even more that way....

With GMH, we had the combination then, of a monster who knew those trails backwards and forward, knew all the shelters and hiding places, and had an unwitting accomplice, I firmly believe, in his dog.

Since I got my pup, I have had more senior men with dogs come over and suggest we let 'em loose to play. I thought this peculiar until a lady told me these guys go to all the parks in our county and get warned by the rangers about having dogs off leash. I admit, not an angle as sinister as GMH, but an angle. GMH may have appeared to be one of these types.

 

[indigomood]

*snipped quote*
Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?

If my memory serves me, I thought I recall it being the Pink Beds Loop Trail. I may be wrong. I have no link.

 

[Alex]

To Pure Maple Syrup: The site won't let me view your photo of the new Gooch Gap shelter. I guess you folks have a hierarchy of privileges for which I fail to qualify, probably with good reason. Maybe you can just tell me whether you know if the ATC tore down the old crummy shelter and which side of the road the new one is on. I wouldn't have recommended they tear down a new one--probably costs about $10,000 to put one up these days. Can't believe its been six years! I guess my memory has gone the same way as my knees. How far from the road is the new one? I seem to remember the more reliable water source being on the NE side of the FS road. Sorry about the other silly remark. ( I'm usually pretty sleepy by the time my wife lets me log on.) It was just a bad attempt at a wry remark. I just don't like doing stalking research for serial killers. Since you are an experienced AT hiker you'll remember through what a long stretch the FS road closely parallels the trail up around Hawk Mtn and Cooper Gap!

Never mind about the trail the Bryants were on that terrible day in October. I got that info off a link posted by Close Enough. October 21st was a Sunday, right? Seems peculiar that in autumn leaf season they would've been the only ones on that trail or in the parking area, doesn't it?

 

[Alex]

Indigomood, your memory is correct. You must have posted while I was composing!

 

[indigomood]

Indigomood, your memory is correct. You must have posted while I was composing!

Thankyou Alex, here is a link..

Deaths not deterring Upstate hikers

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2008/jan/09/deaths-not-deterring-upstate-hikers/

The search for the couple centered on the Pink Beds Loop Trail in the Pisgah National Forest, near Brevard. Ms. Bryant’s body was found there in November, covered with leaves.

*more at link*

 

[panglossian]

I can't access that link from Pure Maple Syrup either

 

[Alex]

To Native New Yorker, about the odd absence of journal entries near New Year's Day on Blood Mountain..

My theory is that Hilton wasn't hiking the AT back and forth to his lair at Gooch Gap. Too far. Too much work. If you're familiar Blood Mountain on the weekends and holidays, you know it's very busy with dayhikers. Even on the coldest days there's 50-100 hikers all over that mountain. It's so close in travel time to metro Atlanta, and it's right on a major highway, US 129. According to my media notes, the store staff there at Neel's Gap had been complaining about Hilton lurking around the trailhead for three days. I think he was just driving over in his van each day via the Lake Winfield Scott road, parking at the Reece loop, and evaluating his "selection" on the mountain. Brazen, yes. But he must have known by the third day that there wasn't going to be any deterrent, like a deputy's car in the parking lot. A dismal failure of forethought by all concerned, if you ask me. But then, maybe the county only has one car.

 

[Native New Yorker]

I cannot access the link, either.

Panglossian, thanks for your response about the dogs.
You are always more vulnerable when your dog is off-leash...
unless of course you are in a friend's backyard. I am not kidding when I say that is the only kind of place I plan to let my dog be off leash in the future.

I read somewhere about how the Bryants picked that area of NC to retire to precisely so that they could pick up and hike whenever they felt like it. So it does not surprise me at all that they were out on a day when not many were.
They did not live far from there, whereas others might have traveled in to see the leaves, etc. From what I read, they were a lovely couple, and I am so sad about what happened to them.....

 

[Native New Yorker]

Alex, I agree with what you wrote about GMH...yes, of course he was just driving in...he was most certainly not the typical hiker, was he?
As far as having a deputy car there as a deterrent....no one could have known that was needed......
it is only in hindsight that we can see with such clarity.....

 

[concernedperson]

Alex, I agree with what you wrote about GMH...yes, of course he was just driving in...he was most certainly not the typical hiker, was he?
As far as having a deputy car there as a deterrent....no one could have known that was needed......
it is only in hindsight that we can see with such clarity.....

I agree about hindsight. This is a beautiful place that one would have thought relatively safe. It takes awhile to connect the dots when a serial is operating. I live about a mile and a half from where he was staying at the siding company. To me this area seems safe but it really wasn't...was it?

One day I saw someone pandering for money at the Publix grocery store and couldn't believe how brash this person was as it doesn't happen. Yes, it does happen. It can happen everywhere. I alerted the manager but what else can we do as citizens. This Publix was across the street from the Chevron station that Hilton was arrested at. Typically, one would expect these types of occurrences in the southwest portion of Atlanta not the northern section.

How wrong we are when we assume.

 

[panglossian]

Alex-
Your information has been so enlightening. The original information about the trail at Blood Mountain sounded like he abducted her from the trail parking lot and just jumped onto the main super highway. Your description and re- enactment/theory makes so much more sense of what he probably did. I don't know anything about that part of the AT, only the AT Pennsylvania north to Maine.

 

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I'm on the way out the door, thanks for the info Alex, I will try to anwer your qestions when I get back in later.

Sorry about the link everyone, no idea what the prob is.

Anyway, if anyone is interested/curious about what this shelter looks like, if you enter "Gooch Mountain Shelter" into Google images, or just google alone, you will find lots of pics. Again, sorry for the messed up link.

Alex is right, it used to be a nasty, filthy rundown affair. But now it's one of the nicer shelters on the AT.

 

[panglossian]

Thank you, Pure Maple Syrup. Looks very nice!

 

[sweetmop]

To Pure Maple Syrup: It hooks up to the Dawson forest, clearly his preferred dumping ground, via those secluded FS roads out of there southwards.

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter. When I was there, it was so old and moldy that I would have guessed it pre-dated the road. Did they rebuild it on top of the old stacked rock foundation? Back when I was there, it couldn't have been more than 300 yards from the road, which, as best as I can recall, was the closest to a fast road of any of the AT shelters in Georgia. And with the old one, the latrine was so close to it, he could've watched from there any solo females using the latrine, to estimate their vulnerabilties by body language etc.. I have law enforcement in my family who agreed with me that the set-up of a shelter so close to a fast hard surface dirt road which led right down to Dahlonega was a big mistake. No law enforcement personnel I've talked to would ever let their loved ones camp so close to a major thoroughfare. The locals use that road just as if it were paved to go over towards Hwy 52 and the Dahlonega area. I don't know if you had any occasion to access a store from that location but the road also leads straight away northwards to the Suches Valley (Hwy 66?), and from there, another paved road (180?) cuts over past Lake Winfield Scott to the Reece Loop where Meredith was kidnapped.

Refusing to let any hiker into the shelter, at least where it was years ago, would've forced the hiker to use the flat area immediately adjacent to the road...and therefore...adjacent in just a few yards...to his parked van. I don't think I need to explain how that would be perfect for his MO.
To him it would be like sitting in survey of a large box of chocolates, any one of which he could pick up and toss in his van at his whim.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you. I hope the mods are on duty to dump this post if they don't like it.

I never suggested that folks are not just as much at risk for crimes of other descriptions at any of the other shelters, only that this shelter was especially well laid out for Hilton's MO.

Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?

Hi Alex.
John And Irene Bryant were hiking in the Pisgah National Forest, in the section called the "pink beds.
Enjoy and appreciate all of your input here.

 

[Alex]

I really wish there was some way we could reconstruct Meredith's movements on the mountain that day. Did her roommate ever comment about what time of the morning she left to go up there? It wouldn't have taken more than an hour and a half from where she lived.

One of my personal projects is to figure out whether what criminologists call bystander apathy played any part in what ultimately happened that day. You know-- being too self-absorbed to pause and notice signs of Meredith's distress while this nasty, smelly, disheveled creature was glomming onto her. The literature says that the more people that are present at a crime scene, the less anyone feels like they, personally, have any responsibility to act. I know the main foottraffic--at least when I've been there-- used to be on the switchbacked AT segment to the summit. The Freeman Bird Trail is a sidetrail, which, at one end, joins the AT roughly opposite the AT access trail to the Reece Loop parking area. Possibly Pure Maple Syrup could update me on this. Used to be that the Bird Trail travelled, fairly level in pitch, around the south flanks of Blood Mtn, and then rejoined the AT (not far from one of the three shelters in the area) on the southwestward side of the mountain. I believe it's the original AT route. In the beginning the AT didn't go over the summit. I could be wrong about that though. The Bird Trail would be ideal to jog on-- my memory is that it's rather quiet and definitely secluded. When my wife and I hiked that trail on a weekday long ago, we didn't encounter a single other soul.

My picture of him taking the backroads whenever he could is strengthened by the fact that he was driving with that stolen tag on his van. To go the long, paved way to Dawson Forest with Meredith in the van, he would have to go through a number of stoplights in both Cleveland, GA and Dahlonega, GA, where the police are sometimes parked near the squares looking for something to do.

 

[gardenmom]

Alex, that kind of reminds me of something that happened at my kid's school. My friend and I were walking our kids home and she noticed that a man was walking along with 2 kids and talking to them and they looked really uncomfortable. I didn't really get any red flags, but she did. So, she stopped and asked the kids if they knew this man and they DIDN'T! The man didn't have any other children with him, but school had just let out. There were probably 30 people, kids and parents that saw the man and kids, but only my friend noticed something amiss. It was a good thing she stopped. The man just kept going. So, I can see that some people may have seen, but didn't "see."