Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[CuriousGeorgia]

I agree. I just don't see any parent killing someone rather than allowing the police to at least investigate.

Exactly. And to think that they were planning an elaborate murder in the ICU at Max's bedside is simply ludicrous, IMO.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I was watching something yesterday about the OJ trail and the defense strategy of Johnny Cochran and it occurred to me that Bremner and the Zahaus seem to be using his questioning of the evidence as a model for how they are approaching the evidence in this case.

Cochran was attempting to get OJ off by accusing the evidence of being tampered with, and other such tactics. One example is the blood sock of OJ's that had Ron Goldman's blood on it. OJ should have been convicted on that DNA alone, IMO.

Bremner and Mary Zahau are trying to cast doubt on the evidence that is making the Shacknais and Romanos innocent of any involvement in Rebecca's case <modsnip>.

Those tactics simply aren't going to work in this case. The case was close and ruled a suicide. "If the ropes on her wrists aren't really tied, there's not much proving the murder side."

 

[MyBelle]

I was watching something yesterday about the OJ trail and the defense strategy of Johnny Cochran and it occurred to me that Bremner and the Zahaus seem to be using his questioning of the evidence as a model for how they are approaching the evidence in this case.

Cochran was attempting to get OJ off by accusing the evidence of being tampered with, and other such tactics. One example is the blood sock of OJ's that had Ron Goldman's blood on it. OJ should have been convicted on that DNA alone, IMO.

Bremner and Mary Zahau are trying to cast doubt on the evidence that is making the Shacknais and Romanos innocent of any involvement in Rebecca's case <modsnip>.

Those tactics simply aren't going to work in this case. The case was close and ruled a suicide. "If the ropes on her wrists aren't really tied, there's not much proving the murder side."

I agree. The tactics haven't worked in this case because of their transparency. I think the variety of LE agencies they accused of incompetence and collusion concluded the family's goal was a financial settlement from JS but also knows accomplishing that goal would require the ME to change the death to "inconclusive" or the case reopened. LE isn't about to play that game.

JMO

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Since many on posting on these threads have speculated that Dr. Jon Juca was "paid off" for leaving out details in RZ's autopsy by receiving a promotion, here's a little blurb about that promotion:


"Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Glenn Wagner said there was "uniform excitement" among county officials about Lucas' promotion, probably because Lucas reflects officials' perceptions of what the office should do and be ---- from how he presents himself to how he conveys his analytical thought process to authorities and the public.

"Of all of my folks, possibly excluding myself, Jon has had the most experience in all of that, and he is a known quantity," Wagner said. "I'm quite comfortable and happy to have him as my No. 2."

Wagner said Lucas has proved his professional mettle during 10 years as a deputy medical examiner for the office. Most recently, Lucas created and presented the office's 2010 report on county deaths, and he handled the office's investigation of the death of Rebecca Zahau in Coronado, a case that made national news, Wagner said.

Wagner said a panel of county officials, which included representatives from the district attorney's office, Human Resources Department, Sheriff's Department and a public safety group, voted unanimously to promote Lucas."

http://m.nctimes.com/mobile/article_...8e560211e.html

 

[justice be served]

Since many on posting on these threads have speculated that Dr. Jon Juca was "paid off" for leaving out details in RZ's autopsy by receiving a promotion, here's a little blurb about that promotion:


"Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Glenn Wagner said there was "uniform excitement" among county officials about Lucas' promotion, probably because Lucas reflects officials' perceptions of what the office should do and be ---- from how he presents himself to how he conveys his analytical thought process to authorities and the public.

"Of all of my folks, possibly excluding myself, Jon has had the most experience in all of that, and he is a known quantity," Wagner said. "I'm quite comfortable and happy to have him as my No. 2."

Wagner said Lucas has proved his professional mettle during 10 years as a deputy medical examiner for the office. Most recently, Lucas created and presented the office's 2010 report on county deaths, and he handled the office's investigation of the death of Rebecca Zahau in Coronado, a case that made national news, Wagner said.

Wagner said a panel of county officials, which included representatives from the district attorney's office, Human Resources Department, Sheriff's Department and a public safety group, voted unanimously to promote Lucas."

http://m.nctimes.com/mobile/article_...8e560211e.html

The Peter Principle is alive and well. It probably doesn't hurt to be a yes-man as well.

 

[K_Z]

Since many on posting on these threads have speculated that Dr. Jon Juca was "paid off" for leaving out details in RZ's autopsy by receiving a promotion.... http://m.nctimes.com/mobile/article_...8e560211e.html

Well, that is news to me! I never thought Dr. Lucas (the ME) was "paid off" to do anything.

My only criticism over the past year or so is that I feel his documentation onthese 2 cases is ....rather...shall we say, "minimalist."

I wouldn't exactly describe some of the documentation in his autopsy reports on MS and RZ as "thorough".

And I offer that criticism as a professional who has multiple experiences as a paid consultant and expert witness. But no, I am not an ME, of course. Advanced practice nurses have much higher standards for documentation.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Cyril Wecht, whom you seem to put great store in, said that he thought the ME did a very excellent job in Rebecca's case. He just disagreed with the findings - for the publicity.

 

[MyBelle]

Well, that is news to me! I never thought Dr. Lucas (the ME) was "paid off" to do anything.

My only criticism over the past year or so is that I feel his documentation onthese 2 cases is ....rather...shall we say, "minimalist."

I wouldn't exactly describe some of the documentation in his autopsy reports on MS and RZ as "thorough".

And I offer that criticism as a professional who has multiple experiences as a paid consultant and expert witness. But no, I am not an ME, of course. Advanced practice nurses have much higher standards for documentation.

With all due respect, even the most advanced nurses are not experts in pathology, which is a sub-specialty of surgery. There apparently was enough documentation in both of the cases that other board-certified pathologists disagreed with the ME's findings. JMO

 

[time]

Cyril Wecht, whom you seem to put great store in, said that he thought the ME did a very excellent job in Rebecca's case. He just disagreed with the findings - for the publicity.

So, you are saying Wecht gave different Manner of Death than the ME just for the publicity? :floorlaugh:

 

[Inparadise]

So, you are saying Wecht gave different Manner of Death than the ME just for the publicity? :floorlaugh:

Perhaps Curious Georgia is a close confidant of Dr. Wecht, and he told her himself that he did it just for the publicity?

 

[time]

Perhaps Curious Georgia is a close confidant of Dr. Wecht, and he told her himself that he did it just for the publicity?

Yeah, huh? :waitasec:

Well, I think Curious Georgia need to provide a link!! But, it's a weak claim to try and discredit Wecht on this one. The other pathologist is the one who discredited herself by going beyond the data and beyond her role as a pathologist. Wecht never tried to claim who killed Rebecca did he?

 

[bourne]

Yeah, huh? :waitasec:

Well, I think Curious Georgia need to provide a link!! But, it's a weak claim to try and discredit Wecht on this one. The other pathologist is the one who discredited herself by going beyond the data and beyond her role as a pathologist. Wecht never tried to claim who killed Rebecca did he?

Wecht also only stated that he believed Rebecca's case should be ruled "undetermined", not outright homicide as Melinek did without foundation or cause or evidence. In addition, he rightly only stated he "leaned towards foul play" without mentioning any specific suspects as those would be up to the investigators to pursue, not a pathologist.

 

[justice be served]

Wecht also only stated that he believed Rebecca's case should be ruled "undetermined", not outright homicide as Melinek did without foundation or cause or evidence. In addition, he rightly only stated he "leaned towards foul play" without mentioning any specific suspects as those would be up to the investigators to pursue, not a pathologist.

I am going to take a wild guess that this has not been Dr. Melinek's shining moment in her career. And one that she probably wishes she had not been roped into regardless of what she was paid.

 

[Inparadise]

I am going to take a wild guess that this has not been Dr. Melinek's shining moment in her career. And one that she probably wishes she had not been roped into regardless of what she was paid.

IMO, the entire "assault scenario" proposed by Dr. Melinek was just as unrealistic as SDSO's "rope tying" dog and pony show.

 

[K_Z]

I am going to take a wild guess that this has not been Dr. Melinek's shining moment in her career. And one that she probably wishes she had not been roped into regardless of what she was paid.

I agree-- this is not her career strength, or bright shining moment. I will put the rest of my comment in the "Dina's Experts" thread, so as not to derail this one.

 

[time]

Wecht also only stated that he believed Rebecca's case should be ruled "undetermined", not outright homicide as Melinek did without foundation or cause or evidence. In addition, he rightly only stated he "leaned towards foul play" without mentioning any specific suspects as those would be up to the investigators to pursue, not a pathologist.

Yes! And, I agree with others, this whole affair was not Melinek's shining moment. I have to wonder if she was ever intended to testify at any trial, criminal or civil. Bet not.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes! And, I agree with others, this whole affair was not Melinek's shining moment. I have to wonder if she was ever intended to testify at any trial, criminal or civil. Bet not.

Prosecutors in Cali, including the State's top law enforcement officer, apparently don't share your concerns about Dr. Melinek's qualifications:

Past clients include the Santa Clara County District Attorney, Office of the County Counsel County of Contra Costa, Marin County Public Defender, the Court Appointed Attorney Program of the Alameda County Bar Association, the Attorney General of the State of California, and private civil plaintiff's and defense attorneys.

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/drmelinek.htm

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

Prosecutors in Cali, including the State's top law enforcement officer, apparently don't share your concerns about Dr. Melinek's qualifications:

Past clients include the Santa Clara County District Attorney, Office of the County Counsel County of Contra Costa, Marin County Public Defender, the Court Appointed Attorney Program of the Alameda County Bar Association, the Attorney General of the State of California, and private civil plaintiff's and defense attorneys.

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/drmelinek.htm

JMO

I would guess this to be true, in most states, operating on a government budget that they would use the closest "expert" as to save on travel expenses and whatnot. As we have heard before in regard to this case the tax payers shouldn't have to pay more for expert advice, or any advice, if you go back to prior posts...

One can assume that since the counties listed above are all around San Francisco perhaps it's a monetary reason why this particular doctor was chosen. All for the cost savings to the tax payer of course.

Do all assistant ME doctors work as consultants? Is this normal? How often do ME docs consult in their own area as opposed to forensic pathologists being brought in for an expert opinion?

 

[*Lash*]

I believe people commit suicide in unusual ways all the time. In my opinion, a suicidal person is already not quite thinking straight and their mind is tormented. I believe because of this, unusual suicides happen. Who really knows what a suicidal person is actually thinking at the time they take their life. How much sanity is included in their thoughts cannot be known. Most likely, their thought process is not sane. As unusual as Rebecca's death was, I don't find it hard to believe a person may commit suicide in a similar manner. I don't question a suicide could happen like this. I question the story we have been told, the lack of evidence, missing pieces, pieces that don't add up and the poor investigation to support the conclusion Rebecca's death was a suicide.

 

[MyBelle]

I would guess this to be true, in most states, operating on a government budget that they would use the closest "expert" as to save on travel expenses and whatnot. As we have heard before in regard to this case the tax payers shouldn't have to pay more for expert advice, or any advice, if you go back to prior posts...

One can assume that since the counties listed above are all around San Francisco perhaps it's a monetary reason why this particular doctor was chosen. All for the cost savings to the tax payer of course.

Do all assistant ME doctors work as consultants? Is this normal? How often do ME docs consult in their own area as opposed to forensic pathologists being brought in for an expert opinion?

I've yet to see any prosecutor choose an expert witness based on price alone. afaik, none work for free.

JMO