Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[Mica]

He also had the benefit of complete privacy and hours and hours to wipe down surfaces, very probably even surfaces he'd touched with gloves. He was presumably alone on the property with RZ from 9-10pm until he called 911 around 630pm.

Good points!

 

[stmarysmead]

Here’s the other point that is just beyond credibility. The crime that is being described daily in these pages...is all over the place. A healthy woman like RZ must have struggled...or if he knocked her out...he had to hogtie,her assault her with knives, drag her to the balcony, throw her over...while leaving only her footprints and making no large disturbance of the dirt and dust in the balcony.

Rape, torture and murder are emotional crimes...rage, sexual gratification...all are things that consume the attention of the perpetrator.

How did he have this perfect recall to remove every trace?

How is AS p...the master Assassin...supposed to remember everywhere he was, everything he did? How could he wipe down in a way that experts could not detect a wipe down? How could he use gloves in a way that experts could not detect them? How Gould he selectively remove all trace evidence of himself, but leave Rebecca’s?

And how did this tugboat captain figure out, as he was doing this, how to commit a crime and remain invisible?

 

[MyBelle]

Here’s the other point that is just beyond credibility. The crime that is being described daily in these pages...is all over the place. A healthy woman like RZ must have struggled...or if he knocked her out...he had to hogtie,her assault her with knives, drag her to the balcony, throw her over...while leaving only her footprints and making no large disturbance of the dirt and dust in the balcony.

Rape, torture and murder are emotional crimes...rage, sexual gratification...all are things that consume the attention of the perpetrator.

How did he have this perfect recall to remove every trace?

How is AS p...the master Assassin...supposed to remember everywhere he was, everything he did? How could he wipe down in a way that experts could not detect a wipe down? How could he use gloves in a way that experts could not detect them? How Gould he selectively remove all trace evidence of himself, but leave Rebecca’s?

And how did this tugboat captain figure out, as he was doing this, how to commit a crime and remain invisible?

I wish I had the answers. Unfortunately, I'm still stuck at figuring out his motive. He was still running on Central time, he hated to fly, he was there to support his brother and critically injured nephew yet he took a detour to stay up all night to paint a door and then rape and murder the woman he thought had given CPR to his nephew and saved his life. It makes no sense.

 

[BRRI]

He had the help of a botched investigation, IMO. Wearing gloves would eliminate all traces on evidence he admittedly handled.

I’m new to the thread but have been following in Facebook groups. I have to agree, sadly. IMO it’s a bit odd that this is the same police department that had issues in the McStay case, and now this one. Odd to have issues in two high profile cases in a relatively short amount of time. Brings a lot of questions to mind, JMHO

 

[BRRI]

You raise an interesting point because RZ was a skilled surgical technician. The plaintiff's theory is that this was a murder made to look like a suicide. Yet LE immediately thought it was a murder and laboriously poured through items in order to find a suspect to no avail. Perhaps she decided to make her suicide look like a murder and the gloves were a decoy.

Possible, but someone with the mind state of suicide may not be able to think clearly enough to cover all of the minute details that staging their murder would entail, especially the way hers was carried out.

 

[Verboten]

During Jonah’s testimony he said Rebecca had cleaned and reorganized the garage, perhaps at that time Rebecca’s dna was transferred to the rope, and if killer wore gloves no dna from that person.

Testimony in trial said the rope was coiled & bagged before DNA tested, therefore, it could be transfer DNA from her being BOUND in the rope. BTW, SDSO said the rope *might* have come from the garage boating area, suggesting they never checked to see if it's actually rope that had been in the water (looks brand new to me & others have read that it had the tags on it & everything). Did it really come from the garage? Was it really their boating rope (that's usually kept on the boat)? Or is it new? If new, was the packaging found? The receipt? Was any effort made to determine where it might have been purchased? Adam says in his polygraph interview that it looked like Kevlar (real specific) and that it's something "You wouldn't just have lying around, I wouldn't think..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppRDQ7yfymg&feature=youtu.be So your suspect knows you should be looking hard at the rope, but the best LE comes up with is there's an empty spot on a garage shelf? Hmmmm.... MOO and such

 

[stmarysmead]

Possible, but someone with the mind state of suicide may not be able to think clearly enough to cover all of the minute details that staging their murder would entail, especially the way hers was carried out.

But yet we are to believe that a first time killer, a tugboat captain, not a Navy Seal...can commit a rage killing...or crime if unbrideled lust...and think clearly enough to remove ALL traces of himself in the way that was required.

He needed:

Gloves that an experienced fingerprint expert could not detect.

A magic dryer sheet that could wipe down every last surface leaving only prints and DNA from RZ...and also be undetectable by an experienced fingerprint expert...that can detect wiped down surfaces every day of the week.

Shoes that left no footprints.

No one tiny hair from any part of his body being left behind.

It’s like bad fiction.

 

[stmarysmead]

Testimony in trial said the rope was coiled & bagged before DNA tested, therefore, it could be transfer DNA from her being BOUND in the rope. BTW, SDSO said the rope *might* have come from the garage boating area, suggesting they never checked to see if it's actually rope that had been in the water (looks brand new to me & others have read that it had the tags on it & everything). Did it really come from the garage? Was it really their boating rope (that's usually kept on the boat)? Or is it new? If new, was the packaging found? The receipt? Was any effort made to determine where it might have been purchased? Adam says in his polygraph interview that it looked like Kevlar (real specific) and that it's something "You wouldn't just have lying around, I wouldn't think..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppRDQ7yfymg&feature=youtu.be So your suspect knows you should be looking hard at the rope, but the best LE comes up with is there's an empty spot on a garage shelf? Hmmmm.... MOO and such

So you think Adam was out buying rope that night? The point is...her DNA is there. Adam’s isn’t. Even the sloppiest investigation could not remove all traces of AS...if anything was there. Sloppiness is not that immaculately precise.

 

[Verboten]

So you think Adam was out buying rope that night? The point is...her DNA is there. Adam’s isn’t. Even the sloppiest investigation could not remove all traces of AS...if anything was there. Sloppiness is not that immaculately precise.

Who said that, not me. Read my words, don't put words in my mouth.

 

[stmarysmead]

Who said that, not me. Read my words, don't put words in my mouth.

Why would LE search out the receipt if not to tie it to a suspect? The suspect you refer to is Adam. It seemed you thought that might produce more evidence against him. Or maybe another suspect?

Just trying to understand.

 

[Imp]

Possible, but someone with the mind state of suicide may not be able to think clearly enough to cover all of the minute details that staging their murder would entail, especially the way hers was carried out.

Exactly, and to carry it out inside a very short window of time. The trip from sad, tired, and preparing for the next day to bizarrely suicidal, then all the prep required to pull off that death scene presumably occurred within an hour or two? With a person who would've had to be deteriorating emotionally at warp speed? Absurd. As others here have pointed out, if she'd walked into the ocean or jumped off the bridge, maybe. But to put that whole mess together while she was dealing with massive emotional and mental decompensation? Nope.

 

[BRRI]

But yet we are to believe that a first time killer, a tugboat captain, not a Navy Seal...can commit a rage killing...or crime if unbrideled lust...and think clearly enough to remove ALL traces of himself in the way that was required.

He needed:

Gloves that an experienced fingerprint expert could not detect.

A magic dryer sheet that could wipe down every last surface leaving only prints and DNA from RZ...and also be undetectable by an experienced fingerprint expert...that can detect wiped down surfaces every day of the week.

Shoes that left no footprints.

No one tiny hair from any part of his body being left behind.

It’s like bad fiction.

That’s true, but, IMO, money (or, family money) can do a lot of things that Navy Seals can’t even do.

 

[Verboten]

Why would LE search out the receipt if not to tie it to a suspect? The suspect you refer to is Adam. It seemed you thought that might produce more evidence against him. Or maybe another suspect?

Just trying to understand.

No. I don't think you are just trying to understand. I am not going to talk in circles with someone. Oh yeah, JMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

Exactly, and to carry it out inside a very short window of time. The trip from sad, tired, and preparing for the next day to bizarrely suicidal, then all the prep required to pull off that death scene presumably occurred within an hour or two? With a person who would've had to be deteriorating emotionally at warp speed? Absurd. As others here have pointed out, if she'd walked into the ocean or jumped off the bridge, maybe. But to put that whole mess together while she was dealing with massive emotional and mental decompensation? Nope.

The description of RZ being only “sad, tired, preparing for the next day” comes from her sister who has an emotional and financial interest in having her death declared a murder and winning this case.

RZ own diary tells a different story:


“I find myself not being able to sleep for the first time in my entire life… now when I close my eyes my mind begins to race… thinking and brewing over many situations and trying to come up with a solution of some sort,” one of the messages read. “… if I am not thinking, I am crying.”

 

[BRRI]

Exactly, and to carry it out inside a very short window of time. The trip from sad, tired, and preparing for the next day to bizarrely suicidal, then all the prep required to pull off that death scene presumably occurred within an hour or two? With a person who would've had to be deteriorating emotionally at warp speed? Absurd. As others here have pointed out, if she'd walked into the ocean or jumped off the bridge, maybe. But to put that whole mess together while she was dealing with massive emotional and mental decompensation? Nope.

Completely agree. The precision required to pull off staging your own murder, with that crime scene, would be unlike anything I have ever seen. Suicidal people can be very rational in their final moments, because they have determined that they are ready to die with no turning back. But, that’s different than thinking intelligently enough to plan something this elaborate, IMO

 

[stmarysmead]

That’s true, but, IMO, money (or, family money) can do a lot of things that Navy Seals can’t even do.

What are you implying was done with money? How did family money allow AS to remove every trace of himself, leaving an immaculate “crime” scene never achieved before?

 

[Jessica2012]

The fingerprint expert testified that they can detect glove prints. They look different but they can be seen and understood. She also,said they can detect if an area is wiped down. This is in Tricia’s interview with Caitlin Rother

In the 5th episode of Under the Gavel, the podccast by the San Diego Tribune on the trial. Pauline Repard says that the SDSO Senior Print Analyst, Shelley Webster, said that the area around the door that showed no prints and the door knob were metal, and different from rest of the door. In her opinion. That is most likely why they held no full prints, and there was no evidence of wiping down.

Ms. Webster also said that Attorney C. Keith Greer was wrong about the butcher knife. The finger marks and labels you may have seen in the photos were put on by him or one of his experts. She said the fingers were not correct. She said the finger labeled as an index finger was actually Rebecca’s pinky print. She said that nullified his theory about how RZ held the knife behind her back and tried to free herself.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCkQKekgRQQ

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I wish I had the answers. Unfortunately, I'm still stuck at figuring out his motive. He was still running on Central time, he hated to fly, he was there to support his brother and critically injured nephew yet he took a detour to stay up all night to paint a door and then rape and murder the woman he thought had given CPR to his nephew and saved his life. It makes no sense.

BBM for focus.

Yet none of those factors prevented him, according to his own AFAIK unsolicited admission, from wanking to .

I'm not a man but I have a hard (guffaw) time understanding the mindset of someone who was supposed to be there to support his brother and critically injured nephew yet was still emotionally up (ROFL) for self-pleasuring.

Does it prove he's a rapist and murderer? No.

Still it makes one wonder.

 

[Jessica2012]

There’s no trace evidence of JS anywhere, thats the issue. If he can commit such a complicated and multifaceted crime, involving torture, rape, murder, hanging, message painting, and leave not a speck of evidence of his presence, he is wasting his time on that tugboat...he could serve in the highest eschelons of espionage service.

He would be a phantom spy....never leaving traces of himself. Forget that amateur James Bond. AS didn’t even need super spy equipment. He figured out how to do all this and remove ALL....ALL traces of himself...during his first murder!!

Exactly. He is either a criminal mastermind, able to foresee all of the potential ways he could be caught so he can cover all his tracks, or he is an innocent victim who had the very bad fortune to step out and see Rebecca first thing in the morning [before he had even had a cup of coffee..

I know I have a hard time talking before my cup o’ joe, and here he is dealing with his dead brother’s girlfriend who is hanging in the courtyard. I can only imagine how freaked out and frantic he must have been, IMO.

There is no way that Rebecca managed to get her DNA exactly in the areas she would have to have handled to tie the knots, if she was just rearranging the garage. No way that would ever happen, IMO.

Those that think Adam could have worn gloves and not gotten his DNA anywhere are not thinking about fibers, hair, sweat, saliva, etc. How did he manage that? Did he wear a hazmat suit?

How did he not leave footprint marks in the carpet?

How did he get Rebecca’s fingerprints on all those places? Did he cart her around like a rag doll, touching her fingers to the door, the bed leg, etc.? If he did, why are there no bruises on Rebecca that should show that?

Why did he not just dump her body somewhere? He could have taken her car, taken her somewhere far, far, away from the mansion. The car would be so much easier to clean that that entire room and balcony. He could have said Rebecca said she was going to take a walk to clear her head, and he went to bed. SO much easier!

Why would anyone EVER murder someone but make it look like a suicide that looks like murder? THEN call and cooperate all day long with police? IMO, it is not likely one bit.

IMO, what is most likely and what the evidence shows is that Rebecca took her life and it was not difficult for her to do what she did.

IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Testimony in trial said the rope was coiled & bagged before DNA tested, therefore, it could be transfer DNA from her being BOUND in the rope. BTW, SDSO said the rope *might* have come from the garage boating area, suggesting they never checked to see if it's actually rope that had been in the water (looks brand new to me & others have read that it had the tags on it & everything). Did it really come from the garage? Was it really their boating rope (that's usually kept on the boat)? Or is it new? If new, was the packaging found? The receipt? Was any effort made to determine where it might have been purchased? Adam says in his polygraph interview that it looked like Kevlar (real specific) and that it's something "You wouldn't just have lying around, I wouldn't think..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppRDQ7yfymg&feature=youtu.be So your suspect knows you should be looking hard at the rope, but the best LE comes up with is there's an empty spot on a garage shelf? Hmmmm.... MOO and such

It's rope. Unless AS brought it with him in his luggage--and there is no evidence that he did--it really has no relevance at this wrongful death trial where the jury is being asked to assign liability to a man who had a minimal relationship with the deceased. There is still no proof AS raped and killed RZ. I doubt the jury debates the rope in deliberations. JMO