Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #4

[justice be served]

From whence does your talk of appeals keep coming from? Is there some source you can point us to?

Just bumping this question to Stmarysmead. If you get a second, could you answer it? Thanks in advance and most appreciated. I seem to have lost the subject progression.

 

[MyBelle]

^ Attorney Greer has the option of objecting to any testimony. If the Judge agrees, she will sustain the objection.

The Jury heard the testimony of the counselor that was with Rebecca that day,

Berman would also have had her deposition available to him to add to the restof his information. IMO.

Now that I do know is true! lol

 

[MyBelle]

The judge would accept Dr. Berman as an expert, but would not have anyway of knowing what his testimony would be. The judge would expect him to give testimony as a professional and with regard to the code of ethics of the APA. Whether the counsellor was there in her professional capacity is irrelevant. What is important is that she is a professional & was doing her assessment of RZ as a professional.

Dr. Berman also provided his post-mortem psychological assessment of RZ as a professional.

 

[minorone]

Dr. Berman also provided his post-mortem psychological assessment of RZ as a professional.

My question was whether or not the judge would know in advance that Dr. Berman would base his expert opinion on the written reports of law enforcement reports, the Medical Examiner's reports, and depositions in this case. And never get input from Karen Hancock. To my knowledge she never did a deposition.

If that is the case, please provide a source.

 

[Jessica2012]

I sure thought I read here yesterday that the Judge ruled the verdict could not be split. I should have requested a link. My bad! Carry on! lol

I think whatever you read must have to refrerred to how the Planitiffs were trying to ‘split’ the verdict into two questions, a) was Rebecca Zahau’s death a murder? b) did Adam kill her?

 

[MyBelle]

I guess I did not explain my point very well.

Dr. Berman reviewed documents from:

1) The ME who did the AR who on a dead body and based his opinion on statements made by the Plaintiff’s family & some depositions.
2) LE who based their opinions on statements and input from the family and people close to the death scene.

The defense & Dr. Berman were well aware that Karen Hancock, county’s Psychiactric Emergency Reponse Team, had spent an hour and a half to two hours talking with Zahau at the hospital. He did seek her opinion or assessment of RZ. I have to question the professional and ethical standards of someone who provided expert evidence & opinion based on written reports , BUT NEVER SPOKE to the one professional who actually talked to RZ for one and a half to two hours.

LE didn't offer opinions, they provided reports detailing the facts they ascertained from interviews. Is Karen Hancock a licensed psychiatrist? Was she aware that the Doctors were going to inform the parents Max would never walk or talk again?

 

[justice be served]

From the just closed thread, justice be served asked:

"Why do the suiciders keep repeatedly bringing up the subject of appeals? And independently too? Interesting."

Imo, it's because they know Mr. Greer has annihilated the ruling of suicide, right along with several *expert* defense witnesses. From Tortoise's transcription of parts of Tricia's most recent interview with Mr. Greer (thanks, Tortoise!):

KG: Yeah, murder’s not even a question, I’m gonna recommend to the jury that they do that, just get that out the way, cause it changes how you look at the evidence. If you believe that it is murder you look at the evidence very differently than if you believe it’s suicide. Cause if you believe it’s murder then all of a sudden a lot of questions are answered, ‘cause she didn’t do this herself, so then the question is who did it? Who, other than her, did it? And then what evidence we have appears to point to Adam. Unless you take what the defense experts say which says the other evidence points to nobody. The door can’t be compared, the writing on the door can’t be compared to anything, and anybody could have tied the ropes that way, and he’s just an unusual guy and his mannerisms when he saw the body that morning, it’s open to interpretation. It’s a challenging case. But I think looking at the evidence it weighs in our favor, and hopefully the jury believes so too.

Just bumping this posting that was kindly answered by Imp to gain one perspective. Just waiting now to hear from Stmarysmead when you can. I really don't understand why this is so dominant in the conversation by the defense-side postings. I am not familiar with the legal proceedings and this coming week is big.

 

[stmarysmead]

Just bumping this question to Stmarysmead. If you get a second, could you answer it? Thanks in advance and most appreciated. I seem to have lost the subject progression.

I answered this before. It’s my opinion. If AS loses the case, I think the defense was strong enough and JS has enough money, why wouldn’t they appeal?

The first time I answered this, I thought that the Zahau family would also appeal, but the negative replies I got seemed reasonable, so not sure in that point.

 

[minorone]

LE didn't offer opinions, they provided reports detailing the facts they ascertained from interviews. Is Karen Hancock a licensed psychiatrist? Was she aware that the Doctors were going to inform the parents Max would never walk or talk again?

So Berman reads & bases his opinion on the depositions from Rebecca’s ex-husband, ex-boyfriend, current boyfriend, and looked over police reports associated with Rebecca. Dr. Berman NEVER talked to the one professional who talked to her for 1-1/2 to 2 hours or any other long time friends/acquaintances/family. Dr. Berman values the input of a former spouse and ex-boyfriend and current boyfriend over other long time known friends and acquaintances and family

Let just agree to disagree.

 

[Tortoise]

How is the defense going to play this. Leave Adam as the sole contender for the jury's contemplation, or put forward other names and concede it was murder? Difficult one.

That painted message is always going to be one heck of a problem for them. I don't think it can be surpassed. No I'm certain it can't be. I have to wonder if he was high to have done such a thing.

 

[justice be served]

I answered this before. It’s my opinion. If AS loses the case, I think the defense was strong enough and JS has enough money, why wouldn’t they appeal?

The first time I answered this, I thought that the Zahau family would also appeal, but the negative replies I got seemed reasonable, so not sure in that point.

I apologize. I did go back just before you posted this and realized you had answered. I was just getting ready to acknowledge it. My bad.

 

[MyBelle]

My question was whether or not the judge would know in advance that Dr. Berman would base his expert opinion on the written reports of law enforcement reports, the Medical Examiner's reports, and depositions in this case. And never get input from Karen Hancock. To my knowledge she never did a deposition.

If that is the case, please provide a source.

You're the one claiming Berman only had LE written reports. I believe he would also have been given all available LE audio/video interviews. If the Plaintiff wanted Karen Hancock to do a deposition, he should have asked for one. That's not Dr. Berman's fault.

 

[Jessica2012]

Here is a quote and link to my earlier assertion that the Zahaus wanted a forensic psychiatrist to review the suicide. This article is from the day before the press conference. Bremner and the Zahaus pre-emptied that with the “It Wasn’t Suicide” narrative the day before, IMO, to influence the public’s view of the case.

Bremner said the family would like a forensic psychiatrist and a criminal profiler to investigate the case.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/...cca-zahau-family-do-not-want-case-closed-not/

 

[justice be served]

How is the defense going to play this. Leave Adam as the sole contender for the jury's contemplation, or put forward other names and concede it was murder? Difficult one.

That painted message is always going to be one heck of a problem for them. I don't think it can be surpassed. No I'm certain it can't be. I have to wonder if he was high to have done such a thing.

Good questions. I just want the investigation to be reopened by another agency. At least this process has hopefully opened some eyes to the many unanswered questions and inconsistencies of the investigation.

 

[stmarysmead]

The judge would accept Dr. Berman as an expert, but would not have anyway of knowing what his testimony would be. The judge would expect him to give testimony as a professional and with regard to the code of ethics of the APA. Whether the counsellor was there in her professional capacity is irrelevant. What is important is that she is a professional & was doing her assessment of RZ as a professional.

If the testimony was considered “unprofessional”...Greer could have objected and the Judge could sustain or strike.

Did Greer bring up these issues on cross? If so the jury heard it. They can decide what they believe.

 

[justice be served]

So Berman reads & bases his opinion on the depositions from Rebecca’s ex-husband, ex-boyfriend, current boyfriend, and looked over police reports associated with Rebecca. Dr. Berman NEVER talked to the one professional who talked to her for 1-1/2 to 2 hours or any other long time friends/acquaintances/family. Dr. Berman values the input of a former spouse and ex-boyfriend and current boyfriend over other long time known friends and acquaintances and family

Let just agree to disagree.

This fact is just one more flimsy defense tactic used which I hope isn't lost on the jury. In fact, I am starting to go through all of the threads since the trial started and am getting a good feeling that the verdict will go to the plaintiff side. That, and my feeling being in the courtroom, watching the judge, the jury and the observers.

 

[Tortoise]

Good questions. I just want the investigation to be reopened by another agency. At least this process has hopefully opened some eyes to the many unanswered questions and inconsistencies of the investigation.

I think it ought to be mandatory and automatic with a win for the plaintiff.

 

[Jessica2012]

How is the defense going to play this. Leave Adam as the sole contender for the jury's contemplation, or put forward other names and concede it was murder? Difficult one.

That painted message is always going to be one heck of a problem for them. I don't think it can be surpassed. No I'm certain it can't be. I have to wonder if he was high to have done such a thing.

You really think Dan Webb is coming to court high? What makes you think that? I have never seen any news of him being suspected of any drug use.

The defense has stood by the SDSO investigation because it was solid. They know it was suicide, because the DNA and fingerprints back that up, and it was ruled a suicide.

 

[minorone]

You're the one claiming Berman only had LE written reports. I believe he would also have been given all available LE audio/video interviews. If the Plaintiff wanted Karen Hancock to do a deposition, he should have asked for one. That's not Dr. Berman's fault.

I am not claiming that he used LE written reports. That is a direct quote from the media based on his evidence.

 

[Tortoise]

You really think Dan Webb is coming to court high? What makes you think that? I have never seen any news of him being suspected of any drug use.

The defense has stood by the SDSO investigation because it was solid. They know it was suicide, because the DNA and fingerprints back that up, and it was ruled a suicide.

I did not mention Dan Webb.

The investigation was solid but the ME was pulled?

The DNA and fingerprints back up murder -

To quote Keith Greer (page 1 of this thread)

Here we have we know that Adam held the knife that cut her down, we know that Adam loosened up the wrist, the bindings on her wrist, and he said he wedged his hand underneath them in order to check her pulse we know that he took the gag out of her mouth we know that he says he gave her mouth to mouth resuscitation, he said he gave her chest compressions, so we’ve got him touching her all over after she’s hanged, but there’s no DNA. So it’s a question of did he not do that stuff? Well we know she’s cut down, we know there’s a knife there we know he’s touched it, we know the ropes are loose on her hands, there’s evidence that what he’s saying is true, yet no DNA.

And so part of it is where it’s tested, I know the rope on the bed, that’s tying the rope to the bed, they didn’t test in my opinion where the person who looped the rope around the bedpost would have been touching the rope. They tested a knot that wasn’t even associated with the rope being looped around the bed.

So part of it is where they test, where they do the swabbing, part of it is does the person leave DNA? Adam said that he showered that night and he also said he showered that morning. So we have both cases, if in fact he was there that evening then he had already showered just like he did the next morning he didn’t leave any DNA the next morning. What makes us [can’t hear] the night before?

Interestingly he had no idea. If it was in fact him he did not have any idea that he wasn’t a shedder of DNA because he wiped off everything. The door knobs in and out of the room, no fingerprints no DNA, you can see on the doorframe on the door itself the area that’s been wiped clean cause the door’s white and there’s powder, the fingerprint powder shows up 8” above the door knob and 8” below there’s all kinds of powder yet it’s really clean white and the whole area of the door and around the door knob and on the door knobs themselves where it’s been wiped. No DNA on the paintbrushes, if Rebecca painted that herself you’d expect her DNA on there, there’s nobody’s. No DNA on the paint tube that was squeezed 20 some odd times to get that paint out, if Rebecca painted it you’d expect to have her DNA on there. And it’s not. So same with the knives that you’d expect her DNA, her fingerprints are on the carving knife, as if she’s holding the blade facing towards her and no DNA of hers on the handle, which is a porous surface, so I think the DNA evidence helps show that it was murder. Because if you’re gonna commit suicide are you gonna be wiping off, I don’t even know if she could, in the order that things were done.