Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #4

[Lezah]

Also of note, there were no drip marks on the door or on the floor in front of it. Acrylic paint doesn't drip very easily.

Betty P, really great point.

You are right, tubed acrylic paint would not drip in this fashion due to it’s viscosity, to suggest it would do so would indicate an ignorance of the basic usage of the material.

Just my opinion...


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[Lilibet]

Have you seen Rebecca’s paintings personally? You have made a statement about her style matching the brush strokes on the door as if it is a fact. Putting IMO after it doesn’t absolve you of providing links to back up your statement. TIA

Greer did a news segment (nothing unusual about that) that showed some of her paintings.

I see nothing in this photo supporting your statement that Rebecca’s brush strokes match those on the door.

 

[justice be served]

I believe that there was still lividity when AS cut her down and that’s when her legs were bent. As far as the rope lengths, I believe she cut them. And I give more credence to RZ’s words in her journal that some exclamation that anyone could have made during an interrogation.

I believe she held the gag in her teeth as she tied her hands.

Though I value the opinions of the sleuthers on this website, I agree with the professional investigators who had no reason to decide this case one way or the other, that this was a-suicide.

BBM. This is one of my personal favorites.

 

[Lezah]

The first time I saw the photos of her lying on the grass I was struck by her bent body position. In fact I believe it might have been my first ever post in the threads. I didn't think of a hogtie because I'm just not familiar with bondage, you learn something new on every case. But I did think she couldn't have been hanging straight when he cut her down and I asked myself if she had been hanging at all. And if she hadn't been in rigor when he put her down on the grass her knees would have been together and not fixed apart by a distance.

Then came I think it was Lezah's suggestion that she had been hogtied, and the evidence of the rope ends that met. Not too long, not too short, and the plaintiff expert said the reconstruction showed she was probably hogtied. When evidence corroborates what you can see in the photos it is a beautiful moment. The rope lengths and the body position being unrelated would have to be a miracle.

And then I noticed Adam said to the polygrapher "I hope to God she wasn't tied up" and that he had asked the detectives about that! In other words he had been on a fishing expedition to see if they could tell the rope had been cut apart. It made no sense that he wouldn't have known her hands were tied because he knew all about the rope, but it did make sense if he was talking about a hogtie.

To disregard all this corroborating evidence is to fail the objectivity test. Rope lengths, body position, and Adam's own words.

I find your reasoning very persuasive....

Just my opinion....


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[nanwv]

Curious.

Rebecca and her life have been researched, dissected, discussed, disrespected, posted for the world to see for eternity - including info on her being abused at a young age, fake shoplifting, affairs, journal entries, and menstrual cycle.

Yet we know almost nothing of AS the Tugboat Captain.

I was hoping those who defend him, who appear to be eloquent in the written word and experts in research, would share some of his upstanding accomplishments/background. This info may give those of us who have a different opinion of his behaviour, a reason to re think our opinion.

What have we heard/learned in all these years. Crickets.

Oh, I stand corrected. I learned he likes to write and bought a house after Rebecca died.

 

[justice be served]

The first time I saw the photos of her lying on the grass I was struck by her bent body position. In fact I believe it might have been my first ever post in the threads. I didn't think of a hogtie because I'm just not familiar with bondage, you learn something new on every case. But I did think she couldn't have been hanging straight when he cut her down and I asked myself if she had been hanging at all. And if she hadn't been in rigor when he put her down on the grass her knees would have been together and not fixed apart by a distance.

Then came I think it was Lezah's suggestion that she had been hogtied, and the evidence of the rope ends that met. Not too long, not too short, and the plaintiff expert said the reconstruction showed she was probably hogtied. When evidence corroborates what you can see in the photos it is a beautiful moment. The rope lengths and the body position being unrelated would have to be a miracle.

And then I noticed Adam said to the polygrapher "I hope to God she wasn't tied up" and that he had asked the detectives about that! In other words he had been on a fishing expedition to see if they could tell the rope had been cut apart. It made no sense that he wouldn't have known her hands were tied because he knew all about the rope, but it did make sense if he was talking about a hogtie.

To disregard all this corroborating evidence is to fail the objectivity test. Rope lengths, body position, and Adam's own words.

This is just such a great pragmatic post that I needed to bump it forward again.

 

[Lilibet]

The first time I saw the photos of her lying on the grass I was struck by her bent body position. In fact I believe it might have been my first ever post in the threads. I didn't think of a hogtie because I'm just not familiar with bondage, you learn something new on every case. But I did think she couldn't have been hanging straight when he cut her down and I asked myself if she had been hanging at all. And if she hadn't been in rigor when he put her down on the grass her knees would have been together and not fixed apart by a distance.

Then came I think it was Lezah's suggestion that she had been hogtied, and the evidence of the rope ends that met. Not too long, not too short, and the plaintiff expert said the reconstruction showed she was probably hogtied. When evidence corroborates what you can see in the photos it is a beautiful moment. The rope lengths and the body position being unrelated would have to be a miracle.

And then I noticed Adam said to the polygrapher "I hope to God she wasn't tied up" and that he had asked the detectives about that! In other words he had been on a fishing expedition to see if they could tell the rope had been cut apart. It made no sense that he wouldn't have known her hands were tied because he knew all about the rope, but it did make sense if he was talking about a hogtie.

To disregard all this corroborating evidence is to fail the objectivity test. Rope lengths, body position, and Adam's own words.

I find your reasoning very persuasive....

Just my opinion....


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Trying to fix the quotes so your post is clear, Lezah.

 

[justice be served]

Curious.

Rebecca and her life have been researched, dissected, discussed, disrespected, posted for the world to see for eternity - including info on her being abused at a young age, fake shoplifting, affairs, journal entries, and menstrual cycle.

Yet we know almost nothing of AS the Tugboat Captain.

I was hoping those who defend him, who appear to be eloquent in the written word and experts in research, would share some of his upstanding accomplishments/background. This info may give those of us who have a different opinion of his behaviour, a reason to re think our opinion.

What have we heard/learned in all these years. Crickets.

Oh, I stand corrected. I learned he likes to write and bought a house after Rebecca died.

BBM. There is so much truth to that. The contrast between Rebecca's life being picked apart and no real redeeming qualities that have been put forth for Adam is astounding. That is our justice system today - blame the victim IMO. I still can't believe the defense couldn't have even manufactured creatively something good! And they had almost 7 years to do so.

 

[*Lash*]

Closing Arguments in Mysterious Death at Spreckels Mansion

By R. Stickney - Published 3 hours ago

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...Death-Zahau-Shacknai-Spreckels-478527323.html

 

[*Lash*]

Hoping for a live stream lease: from CBS8:

www.cbs8.com/story/10363609/cbs-news-live-stream

 

[K_Z]

Speaking of her period, RZ had an IUD, right? Do we know which one?

No, because Dr. Jonathan Lucas failed to document that on his AR, even though it was an indwelling medical device that he removed and examined. He should have documented that it was removed intact, that the retrieval string was intact inside the cervix and still connected to the IUD, what brand it was (mirena, para guard, etc), and what the serial number was. That is so incredibly "basic" it is astonishing he omitted it. Does Dr. JL regularly omit documenting information about indwelling medical devices, such as pacemakers, etc when he removes them at autopsy?

Another example of his "minimalist" documentation, IMO. Because he never mentioned seeing the retrieval string during his clear spec exam, I have to wonder if he was "surprised" when he dissected out the uterus, opened it, and saw the device.

And I have to wonder if there were small cervical injuries, such as from traction on the retrieval string, that could have produced her bleeding. But we will never know, because Dr. JL omitted so much relevant information from his "forensic autopsy." But....the polyp......the polyp....

 

[*Lash*]

Respectfully snipped-

I do know that the jury wouldn’t buy a fantastical defense and today it all comes together for those of us that don’t buy fantasy over reality. Rebecca did NOT commit suicide IMO. Go Greer!!

Yes! Let’s send good vibes to the Zahau family and Mr. Greer! I will go first:

:thewave:


Bring it home, Greer ython: Love and light, Mary :heartbeat:​

 

[Lezah]

It is believed that the painting was used directly from the tube, there was no type of palette used to mix the paint and no water jar that indicated the brush was wet. Acrylic paint is very thick. My last post explains it all.

Yes, Brit I read it and I fully agree with your suggestions.

The evidence doesn’t fit the suppositions of some, and therefore there appears to be a need to need to introduce a phantom tampon, a ‘first’ paint tube, a ‘wet’ paintbrush, an artist palette.

None of which are in evidence in this case.

I also looked to our silent witness, demonstrating the delicacy of her work, her fine attention to detail, her obvious brush control and a clear familiarity with her artists materials.

One only needs to compare this with the door paint to see this was not the work her hand.

It’s back to using our common sense when observing the situation.

I asked myself too, what if I were suicidal...and I resolved this thought by recollecting that there are many beautiful and expressive art works created through the lens of human loss, desperation, depression and emotional turmoil. These are times when many artists have created their finest works.

Just my opinion....





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[K_Z]

I think another powerful argument for the defense is how the absolutely-this-is-the-truth theories of who was the culprit has...mutated...over the years. And the theory of the crime has changed a lot too. It was Dina, it was Dina...then it wasn’t, It was Nina, it was Nina, then it wasn’t.

Oh how sure you all were. How it all fit together!

But then....Apologies preferred...now it’s a sex crime and there’s only one guy left to create a story around.

I know that’s had an influence on me. All the now discarded certainty and righteous indignation.

Even Greer admits Bremner “exaggerated.” Then the spectacle of the sweeps autopsy which I found as demeaning to RZ as laying exposed in the courtyard. The refusal to admit at all...that her life was t fabulous and Jonah didn’t adore her...and she was so religious.

Anyway, I hope both families are at least satisfied that they got their day in court. They both had excellent representation. The judge seems very fair.

Our legal system is working well for both sides.

Unless I'm mistaken, the jury is only supposed to consider the evidence and theories presented in court.

So, quite frankly, it doesn't (and shouldn't) matter a bit TO THE JURY what a bunch of anonymous posters on a discussion board "think" or "thought" about the theory of the crime.

Gosh, unless the jury is reading, or read, theories of the crime on discussion boards on the internet, right? And that would be rather a big problem if it were to be revealed.

 

[Betty P]

Respectfully snipped-



Yes! Let’s send good vibes to the Zahau family and Mr. Greer! I will go first:

:thewave:


Bring it home, Greer ython: Love and light, Mary :heartbeat:​

Yes, I'll join you in sending good vibes to Mr. Greer and the Zahau family:

:yourock:


And most of all:

:tyou:

 

[*Lash*]

No, because Dr. Jonathan Lucas failed to document that on his AR, even though it was an indwelling medical device that he removed and examined. He should have documented that it was removed intact, that the retrieval string was intact inside the cervix and still connected to the IUD, what brand it was (mirena, para guard, etc), and what the serial number was. That is so incredibly "basic" it is astonishing he omitted it. Does Dr. JL regularly omit documenting information about indwelling medical devices, such as pacemakers, etc when he removes them at autopsy?

Another example of his "minimalist" documentation, IMO. Because he never mentioned seeing the retrieval string during his clear spec exam, I have to wonder if he was "surprised" when he dissected out the uterus, opened it, and saw the device.

And I have to wonder if there were small cervical injuries, such as from traction on the retrieval string, that could have produced her bleeding. But we will never know, because Dr. JL omitted so much relevant information from his "forensic autopsy." But....the polyp......the polyp....

What polyp? (rhetorical :slap

The PINK nail polish, that was SO very significant :shame:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The first time I saw the photos of her lying on the grass I was struck by her bent body position. In fact I believe it might have been my first ever post in the threads. I didn't think of a hogtie because I'm just not familiar with bondage, you learn something new on every case. But I did think she couldn't have been hanging straight when he cut her down and I asked myself if she had been hanging at all. And if she hadn't been in rigor when he put her down on the grass her knees would have been together and not fixed apart by a distance.

Then came I think it was Lezah's suggestion that she had been hogtied, and the evidence of the rope ends that met. Not too long, not too short, and the plaintiff expert said the reconstruction showed she was probably hogtied. When evidence corroborates what you can see in the photos it is a beautiful moment. The rope lengths and the body position being unrelated would have to be a miracle.

And then I noticed Adam said to the polygrapher "I hope to God she wasn't tied up" and that he had asked the detectives about that! In other words he had been on a fishing expedition to see if they could tell the rope had been cut apart. It made no sense that he wouldn't have known her hands were tied because he knew all about the rope, but it did make sense if he was talking about a hogtie.

To disregard all this corroborating evidence is to fail the objectivity test. Rope lengths, body position, and Adam's own words.

AS told the 911 dispatcher that Rebecca had hanged herself.

If he believed that, he would have said "I hope to God she didn't tie herself up."

Saying he hoped she wasn't tied up suggests that he knew someone besides Rebecca had done the tying.

 

[Imp]

This looks live: https://www.facebook.com/ABC10News/videos/1974293749279764

 

[screecher]

BBM. There is so much truth to that. The contrast between Rebecca's life being picked apart and no real redeeming qualities that have been put forth for Adam is astounding. That is our justice system today - blame the victim IMO. I still can't believe the defense couldn't have even manufactured creatively something good! And they had almost 7 years to do so.

We do know AS was seeing a psychiatrist, per court filings.

 

[BBL]

Thank you for the live links. This is a long day coming. I hope Mr. Greer and Rebecca's family know that they have so many people in their corner.