Rebecca's Autopsy

[Rhyme & Reason]

cynic - This is fantastic!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. To tell you the truth, I expected this to be attached to the AR. I thought they always did a drawing of marks, scars, etc.

So what do you make of your work? How could she have that posterior horizontal component without previous manual strangulation? She would have had to hang herself twice to accomplish that, the first time unsuccessfully and with the knot entirely anterior and no upward torque....no? And the other, finer marks noted, separated by areas of pallor. What is your take on all this? Do you think the marks on her forehead could be from contact with the railing, especially given the lack of bruising associated with them? Unlike the subgaleal hemorrhages.....

I also thought they always did a drawing & was surprised to see there wasn't one attached to the AR.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I think I’d be a starving artist both in the “real world” and on the internet.

Starving? Nah, you're good!

 

[IWannaKnow]

Snipped for space~

Cynic-Could the injuries seen in your visual aids be attributed to being strangled against a railing? The railing giving the extra furrow on the back of the neck? Those hemorrhages at the sternocleidomastoid muscles are waaaaayyyyy too low to be attributed to the ligature, and there is no corresponding furrow over or near those hemorrhages AND the fracture of the cricoid!!! If it were attributed to the rope slipping, there should be corresponding abrasion of the skin, which is not noted.

Page 6:

There are numerous fine and coarse petechiae above the ligature furrow, extending from the chin to the angles of the mandible.

The neck, other than the injuries described below, is symmetrical and unremarkable.

Thoughts? :websleuther:

 

[sdcali]

You are sure that LE said both balcony doors were open? Because in the photo by Coronado police officer, only one door is open. Furthermore Lt. N. claims the other door was secured with bolt-type lock into the floor.

""Photo two – showing both doors closed – we believe the door on the left was blown closed by a breeze; the door on the right was secured with a bolt-type lock into the floor," Nesbit continued."http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

BBM

Yeah, that is exactly what they said in the press conference. I have a problem with the discrepancies. At 29:26 into the PC (the video is on the Sheriff's wesite page), LE said that the balcony doors were open at the time of the incident.

 

[sorrell skye]

BBM

Yeah, that is exactly what they said in the press conference. I have a problem with the discrepancies. At 29:26 into the PC (the video is on the Sheriff's wesite page), LE said that the balcony doors were open at the time of the incident.

Yessirree - Sgt. Nemeth (SDSO homicide unit) stated in the Sept. 2 PC that "these doors were open at the time of the incident".

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

Yet, recently, we've been told this by Lt. Nesbit:

"Photo two – showing both doors closed – we believe the door on the left was blown closed by a breeze; the door on the right was secured with a bolt-type lock into the floor," Nesbit continued.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

If the door on the right was secured with a "bolt-type lock into the floor" - how does this explain Sgt. Nemeth's PC statement that "these doors were open at the time of the incident"????

I'm still waiting for an official explanation as to why both balcony doors were closed when they were filmed @ ~ 4:45 p.m. on July 13, 2011 by a News 8 media helicopter, especially since Sgt. Nemeth stated in the Sept. 2 PC that "these doors were open at the time of the incident".

If "these doors were open at the time of the incident", who closed them prior to the News 8 helicopter footage that was taken @ ~ 4:45 p.m.on July 13, before the crime scene was processed?

If the SDSO wants the victim's family & the public to have faith in their investigative findings, then the SDSO needs to explain these discrepancies (and also answer other questions) to the victim's family's satisfaction, and to the public's satisfaction.

 

[cynic]

I noticed a mistake with the lines starting on the wrong side of the body, my apologies.

ETA: The original post has now been corrected with the image below.

 

[cynic]

...brings me back to comments concerning the fact that Rebecca actually has a LOT of injuries, many of which have not been explained.

That's why they haven't attempted any sort of reconstruction, I'm sure.

I would like to ask if I can have your permission to pass this on to some other people? It is a fantastic visual and makes some VERY good points!!

Of course you can.

 

[cynic]

To tell you the truth, I expected this to be attached to the AR. I thought they always did a drawing of marks, scars, etc.

Yes there is, it was withheld for some reason.

So what do you make of your work?

I’m still going through it.

How could she have that posterior horizontal component without previous manual strangulation?
She would have had to hang herself twice to accomplish that, the first time unsuccessfully and with the knot entirely anterior and no upward torque....no?

Keep in mind that the distance is only 1/8 of an inch, even a slight roll of the ligature might accomplish that.

And the other, finer marks noted, separated by areas of pallor. What is your take on all this?

That’s still a work in progress.

Do you think the marks on her forehead could be from contact with the railing, especially given the lack of bruising associated with them? Unlike the subgaleal hemorrhages

Not likely, IMO. I think there would be very significant abrasions and I can’t envision there not being serious injuries to RN’s nose.
I see those marks as coming from the tree.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

Yeah, that is exactly what they said in the press conference. I have a problem with the discrepancies. At 29:26 into the PC (the video is on the Sheriff's wesite page), LE said that the balcony doors were open at the time of the incident.

I have a big problem with the discrepancies too. So far LE has claimed that both doors were opened at the time of the incident, the official photo by the police officer shows only one door opened, we have a statement from Lt. N. that one door was opened or closed depending on the breeze but the other one was bolted. We also know a police officer got on the balcony before the foot print photos were taken. So what are we to believe, then?

 

[SunnieRN]

Yessirree - Sgt. Nemeth (SDSO homicide unit) stated in the Sept. 2 PC that "these doors were open at the time of the incident".

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

Yet, recently, we've been told this by Lt. Nesbit:

"Photo two – showing both doors closed – we believe the door on the left was blown closed by a breeze; the door on the right was secured with a bolt-type lock into the floor," Nesbit continued.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

If the door on the right was secured with a "bolt-type lock into the floor" - how does this explain Sgt. Nemeth's PC statement that "these doors were open at the time of the incident"????

I'm still waiting for an official explanation as to why both balcony doors were closed when they were filmed @ ~ 4:45 p.m. on July 13, 2011 by a News 8 media helicopter, especially since Sgt. Nemeth stated in the Sept. 2 PC that "these doors were open at the time of the incident".

If "these doors were open at the time of the incident", who closed them prior to the News 8 helicopter footage that was taken @ ~ 4:45 p.m.on July 13, before the crime scene was processed?

If the SDSO wants the victim's family & the public to have faith in their investigative findings, then the SDSO needs to explain these discrepancies (and also answer other questions) to the victim's family's satisfaction, and to the public's satisfaction.

So, now LE has given us proof that what they found the first day, was incorrect, or was somehow changed prior to the area being processed. Doesn't sound like a good scenario either way imho.

 

[SunnieRN]

That's why they haven't attempted any sort of reconstruction, I'm sure.

Of course you can.

I thank you my friend!!! Home run, out of the park Cynic!!!!!!:woohoo::great:

 

[Curious Me]

cynic, you are awesome!:applause:

What's your take on these findings then?

Why didn't RZ's tongue protrude as often happens in a hanging death?

 

[SunnieRN]

I am looking very forward to the radio show and more of Cynic's great knowledge on Sunday night!! Thanks Cynic and Tricia!!

 

[sdcali]

I have a big problem with the discrepancies too. So far LE has claimed that both doors were opened at the time of the incident, the official photo by the police officer shows only one door opened, we have a statement from Lt. N. that one door was opened or closed depending on the breeze but the other one was bolted. We also know a police officer got on the balcony before the foot print photos were taken. So what are we to believe, then?

Since LE said that the doors were open at the time of the incident.

He has not said that they were that way when LE arrived--in other words, they know the doors were both open when Rebecca went off of the balcony. What evidence have they not shared?

How do they know that? Who closed and bolted the one door? How did the second door close?

 

[sorrell skye]

cynic, you are awesome!:applause:

What's your take on these findings then?

Why didn't RZ's tongue protrude as often happens in a hanging death?

I agree that Cynic is totally awesome! I think I may have a crush on him. :blushing: C'mon - you all know I'm not the only one!

And while I'm not Cynic, I'll attempt to answer your question about the tongue, based on my knowledge of bony landmarks & human anatomy.

The hyoid bone provides the anchor point for the tongue.

In hanging/strangulation deaths where there is no gag, when the hyoid bone is broken, the tongue is released from its anchor point and protrudes from the mouth.

I think the reason that RZ's tongue didn't protrude from her mouth is because of the tee shirt being stuffed into her mouth.

ETA: and also because only the left arm of the hyoid bone was fractured.

 

[jjenny]

Since LE said that the doors were open at the time of the incident.

He has not said that they were that way when LE arrived--in other words, they know the doors were both open when Rebecca went off of the balcony. What evidence have they not shared?

How do they know that? Who closed and bolted the one door? How did the second door close?

According to Lt. N the second door got closed because of the breeze.
I have no clue what the deal is with the door that was bolted, because no way Lt. N could blame the breeze for closing of that one.

 

[sorrell skye]

I wonder if RZ's fingernails were scraped, or clipped & preserved?

I've read the AR over & over & over, and I can find no reference to her fingernails being scraped, or clipped & preserved, so I'm inclined to believe that they weren't.

I've read other ARs where the victim's fingernails were scraped, and clipped & preserved.

But there is absolutely no mention of that procedure being done during RZ's autopsy.

If her fingernails weren't scraped, or clipped & preserved & tested for DNA, how can it be said with any "ironclad" certainty that she didn't fight against an attacker, or that she wasn't murdered?

Fingernail scrapings can yield valuable DNA evidence, but it doesn't seem that it was collected in this case, according to the AR.

 

[SunnieRN]

I just rewatched the PC. Several things jumped out at me. LE said that they "painstakingly" studied the bindings while they were still on Rebecca's wrists in order to reinact it for the video. The ME said that he is the one that took the rope off of her wrists and verified that was the way it was applied.

They said that paint was found on her hands , torso and the rope piece around her neck. That means that she had to have tied her hands and feet prior to painting the message. Even if she had slipped her hand out to paint the message, wouldn't it make sense that at least a small amount may have transferred to the wrist bindings?

Then she hops or shuffles back over to the foot of the bed to drop her paint brush (why there? why not drop it by the door?) and puts the noose portion over her head --getting paint only on the part of the rope she puts it around her neck. What about the shirt that went over the rope?? No paint at all on it? Then hops to the balcony? And of course, the one hop to the edge on her tippy toes.

LE said that when they first arrived on the scene, both balcony doors were open. I believe they were referring to CPD and not SDSO.

Bye the way, even though I responded to this post already, I forgot to thank you for it!!! Kudos to you my dear!!

And Sorrell Skye, you are awesome!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!!!

 

[sdcali]

I wonder if RZ's fingernails were scraped, or clipped & preserved?

I've read the AR over & over & over, and I can find no reference to her fingernails being scraped, or clipped & preserved, so I'm inclined to believe that they weren't.

I've read other ARs where the victim's fingernails were scraped, and clipped & preserved.

But there is absolutely no mention of that procedure being done during RZ's autopsy.

If her fingernails weren't scraped, or clipped & preserved & tested for DNA, how can it be said with any "ironclad" certainty that she didn't fight against an attacker, or that she wasn't murdered?

Fingernail scrapings can yield valuable DNA evidence, but it doesn't seem that it was collected in this case, according to the AR.

And there was blood noted on her fingers in the AR. How did they account for that??

 

[SunnieRN]

And there was blood noted on her fingers in the AR. How did they account for that??

Easy one. They didn't!!!:innocent: