Rebecca's cell phone records

[Pach]

the reason for also checking the locations where cellphone calls were made not only of possible suspects but also those of people the possible suspects called is simply because even if the alibis of possible suspects are airtight, there is always the possibility of either their relatives, their friends or hitmen they hired doing the dirty work of murdering a victim.

LE should do cell phone forensics of possible suspects as well as people that the possible suspects called recently. A recent example of using cell phone forensics shown below:

http://news.yahoo.com/body-found-search-missing-nursing-student-145114754.html

 

[jjenny]

I think LE spent more time trying to find evidence of a homicide. An erased message doesn't prove homicide or suicide.

JMO

I think they spend most of their time trying to prove suicide.

 

[MyBelle]

Very possible to prove either way if they could recover the message. I wonder how hard they tried.

LE have said they can not recover the message. Voice messages are just words and wouldn't be evidence of homicide if the person saying the words was elsewhere at the time of death.

JMO

 

[CocoChanel]

Why wouldn't they? The actual content of the message would not alter their opinion of a suicide vs. homicide. LE did say they verified his whereabouts at the time of RN's death.

JMO

I apologize for repeating this sentiment, but again I hope and pray LE does not think this same way. The actual content of the message, if it was possible to retreive, and I think it was, absolutely should play some part in the determination of suicide vs. homicide.

On the other hand, verifying JS's whereabouts at the time of RN's death however, in my mind, does NOT play a role. Knowing where JS was does not rule out homicide. Neither does knowing where DS was. I hope those 2 confirmations, however they were made, were not part of the evidence used to rule this a suicide.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't know. I would probably hang up in the middle of the call myself if it was getting ugly and it was abusive or mean.

Then again, maybe it was a short call. What did he really have left to say at that time? Two minutes is long enough if you are really angry and just want to get the bottom line facts out.

Whatever the message said, it was many hours prior to the time of death so it really can't be tied to it with any more significance than being the final straw of a nightmare that had been unfolding over a period of several days.

JMO

 

[SunnieRN]

In my opinion, it was not Max's condition that took a turn for the worse that Tuesday evening. I think it was the relationship between Jonah and Rebecca that took a huge turn for the worse. I can imagine Jonah sitting in that ICU and reflecting upon the violent accident, the extent of Max's extreme injuries, the constant bad mouthing of RN being done by DS, and his iwn questioning of the circumstances behind the tragic fall. I think it is quite possible that he finally snapped and called and asked her to leave his home.
He may have been very rude and very mean and even made some threats or accusations at the time.

I truly believe that everyone already knew, even by Tuesday night, that Max
was not coming back. The MRI and other tests were optimistically searching for miracles, but I think the doctors already knew that he was beyond repair. And it may have taken JS until that evening to accept that bleak reality. imoo

No. I believe that on Tuesday evening JS finally accepted the bleak prognosis that everyone knew from the beginning. And I believe that he called RN and told her that Max was going to die. He told the truth about the call, imo.

Whether a doctor or nurse or Rabbi had a talk with him that evening and helped him to understand, that I do not know for sure. But imo, nothing medically had to take place that evening for JS to suddenly accept his child's imminent death. He was brain dead before he even got to the hospital. imoo

Katy, I am not trying to be rude, in any way, but both of these posts were made by you on the last page of this thread. I can understand, if JS was feeling all of the feelings and emotions you spoke of in your first post.

If he spoke to someone who helped him realize the truth, I do not see him being the kind of man, to leave a short message. I think from the controlling methods we have heard of him using, it would make him want to control this situation also.

If he left a message, telling her to leave, get out, etc., I believe that would have been a very long, humiliating and hurtful message.

Impossible for LE to prove either way.

Especially since Rebecca didn't have a recent missed call at 12:50 am from JS phone.

 

[Pach]

with all due respect, while your speculations are possible in light of the circumstances, it will will not hold up in court unless verified by the contents of that voice mail(assuming it can still be accessed).

Relatedly, the alibis of the possible suspects are just their verbal statements. . I would double-check their cellphone records, who they called, where the calls were made, who the people they called also called...does the LE results on their website show if they already did cellphone forensics ?

I don't know. I would probably hang up in the middle of the call myself if it was getting ugly and it was abusive or mean.

Then again, maybe it was a short call. What did he really have left to say at that time? Two minutes is long enough if you are really angry and just want to get the bottom line facts out.

 

[lauriej]

Her cell records showed she listened to her voice mail. Not to a "message that was recently left." She maid a call to her voicemail and listened to it for 2 minutes. For all I know there was no messages there at all, it's certainly isn't a very long time to make a call to voice mail.

Exactly. Which would corroborate his statement that he had called her earlier and left a message.
Plus they looked at his cell records as well, most likely. I bet they certainly did when they checked his whereabouts for the evening.

..we don't know for certain that SHE listened to her voice mail on her cell @ 12:50-----only that someone did.

..BBM-------what statement is that?..all we have is LE telling us what it contained, followed by LE telling RZ's sister that JS made the call/left the message.
..JS---hasn't made a statement saying that (as far as i know.)

..if LE is certain that JS did leave her a message-----why won't they just say so??---now they won't say WHO left the message after all.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

"We know from the investigation that (voicemail) message that was left on her phone was to inform Rebecca of Maxie's grave condition and imminent death," said San Diego County Sheriff's Sgt. Dave Nemeth at a news conference earlier this month.

Zahau's sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner, said detectives told her that Jonah Shacknai left the voicemail on Rebecca's phone around 12:30 a.m. on the morning of her death.

Detectives said the message was erased and officials will not confirm who left the voicemail.

------we don't know WHO left the message on RZ's cell phone, or WHOSE phone it came from.

------we don't know WHO checked RZ's voice mail @ 12:50

------we don't know WHO erased the message.

..and yet, at the PC, LE was pushing "this message---- of max's grave turn for the worse--imminent death" as the REASON that rebecca dropped everything and decided to kill herself.

..and they WONDER (??) why the family, and the public finds their PC "lacking!" (at best), and would like many more questions answered.

 

[katydid23]

Katy, I am not trying to be rude, in any way, but both of these posts were made by you on the last page of this thread. I can understand, if JS was feeling all of the feelings and emotions you spoke of in your first post.

If he spoke to someone who helped him realize the truth, I do not see him being the kind of man, to leave a short message. I think from the controlling methods we have heard of him using, it would make him want to control this situation also.

If he left a message, telling her to leave, get out, etc., I believe that would have been a very long, humiliating and hurtful message.



Especially since Rebecca didn't have a recent missed call at 12:50 am from JS phone.

BBM

I respectfully disagree. CEO's and controlling personality types do not typically spend too much time on things like 'messy phone calls.' I believe two minutes was plenty of time for him to bark out his orders and make his feelings known.

I think it would have been short and rude and final. imoo

 

[jjenny]

Whatever the message said, it was many hours prior to the time of death so it really can't be tied to it with any more significance than being the final straw of a nightmare that had been unfolding over a period of several days.

JMO

I don't believe LE has her exact time of death. They only estimated it because she was already in rigor by the time fire department arrived on the scene.
Considering how long they left her there before ME arrived, how would it be possible to get an accurate time of death?

 

[alexanderdavis]

No, not if they want to clear him of a possible homicide. They said they checked the alibis of JS and DS for that time period. IMO, that would include looking at their cell records.

I agree with you. It is all part of doing a thorough investigation. All areas need to be covered to rule in AND rule out both sides.

In regards to the phone records.....weren't they able to pull up all kinds of old, erased messages in the Casey Anthony trial. If my mind serves me right, there were pages and pages AND PAGES of them.

And with technology today, they can certainly pull up everything we erase on our computer.

If the reasoning really was because their department did not have the software for the newer phones, I suggest they get off their butts and drive to a place that does have the software. That's what my boss would tell me....if I needed to get a job done.

 

[MyBelle]

I apologize for repeating this sentiment, but again I hope and pray LE does not think this same way. The actual content of the message, if it was possible to retreive, and I think it was, absolutely should play some part in the determination of suicide vs. homicide.

On the other hand, verifying JS's whereabouts at the time of RN's death however, in my mind, does NOT play a role. Knowing where JS was does not rule out homicide. Neither does knowing where DS was. I hope those 2 confirmations, however they were made, were not part of the evidence used to rule this a suicide.

LE evidently does think the same way because the ruling is suicide. LE has stated the message was impossible to retrieve. LE also confirmed both of Max's grieving parents' alibis.

JMO

 

[Pach]

To restate what you have posted(which is very good), did LE already do cellphone or landline phone forensics ? is this mentioned in their report on their website ? or is LE just pushing a "pet theory" that this message is what pushed rebecca over the edge ? and that is assuming she was the one who listened to the message and erased the message(as you have mentioned)

..we don't know for certain that SHE listened to her voice mail on her cell @ 12:50-----only that someone did.

..BBM-------what statement is that?..all we have is LE telling us what it contained, followed by LE telling RZ's sister that JS made the call/left the message.
..JS---hasn't made a statement saying that (as far as i know.)

..if LE is certain that JS did leave her a message-----why won't they just say so??---now they won't say WHO left the message after all.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau



------we don't know WHO left the message on RZ's cell phone, or WHOSE phone it came from.

------we don't know WHO checked RZ's voice mail @ 12:50

------we don't know WHO erased the message.

..and yet, at the PC, LE was pushing "this message---- of max's grave turn for the worse--imminent death" as the REASON that rebecca dropped everything and decided to kill herself.

..and they WONDER (??) why the family, and the public finds their PC "lacking!" (at best), and would like many more questions answered.

 

[katydid23]

with all due respect, while your speculations are possible in light of the circumstances, it will will not hold up in court unless verified by the contents of that voice mail(assuming it can still be accessed).

Relatedly, the alibis of the possible suspects are just their verbal statements. . I would double-check their cellphone records, who they called, where the calls were made, who the people they called also called...does the LE results on their website show if they already did cellphone forensics ?

I do not know if there is any record of LE's looking at the POI's cell records. I would assume they did look at the cell tower pings when the checked on JS and DS for their alibis. But who knows?

 

[SunnieRN]

Whatever the message said, it was many hours prior to the time of death so it really can't be tied to it with any more significance than being the final straw of a nightmare that had been unfolding over a period of several days.

JMO

Now we are on to a much touchier subject. The ME estimated the time of Rebecca's death, based on rigor mortis.

First off, AS states he cut Rebecca down at 6:30 am. Looking at the reports, ems told fire and rescue, that Rebecca had rigor mortis in her jaw. We know she had it in her legs also

The ME arrived on scene 13 hours after this. 13 hours after Rebecca had been on the grass, out in the weather.

Looking at livor and rigor mortis, there is quite a large window of time in which Rebecca could have actually died. Without a witness an exact time of death can not be determined.

For example, if Rebecca died during the loud music heard by the neighbors, she died between 1 and 1:30.

JS stated he called and left a message at 12:30 (?) or 12:50(?). If she died, that was not enough time to become despondent, find supplies, plan and carry out a suicide.

 

[Pach]

Yes, i wonder if the final LE report states that they completed exhaustive cellphone and landline phone forensics.

I do not know if there is any record of LE's looking at the POI's cell records. I would assume they did look at the cell tower pings when the checked on JS and DS for their alibis. But who knows?

 

[katydid23]

I agree with you. It is all part of doing a thorough investigation. All areas need to be covered to rule in AND rule out both sides.

In regards to the phone records.....weren't they able to pull up all kinds of old, erased messages in the Casey Anthony trial. If my mind serves me right, there were pages and pages AND PAGES of them.

And with technology today, they can certainly pull up everything we erase on our computer.

If the reasoning really was because their department did not have the software for the newer phones, I suggest they get off their butts and drive to a place that does have the software. That's what my boss would tell me....if I needed to get a job done.

They can get texts and cell records of incoming/outgoing calls. But voicemails are problematic because they are not typed into the cells, like texts, or recorded, like the calls are for billing purposes. Voice mails are recorded and can be easliy erased with no record.

 

[SunnieRN]

I do not know if there is any record of LE's looking at the POI's cell records. I would assume they did look at the cell tower pings when the checked on JS and DS for their alibis. But who knows?

Unfortunately, the Zahau family doesn't know. They have questions that could possibly be cleared up by simply looking at these documents.

I would think that those involved would gladly share any and all records that would prove their innocence.

 

[SophieRose]

with all due respect, while your speculations are possible in light of the circumstances, it will will not hold up in court unless verified by the contents of that voice mail(assuming it can still be accessed).

Relatedly, the alibis of the possible suspects are just their verbal statements. . I would double-check their cellphone records, who they called, where the calls were made, who the people they called also called...does the LE results on their website show if they already did cellphone forensics ?

Well they said lots and lots of phone records were subpoenaed, so I'm sure that includes everyone in the S family plus NR.

As far as the hospital goes, I think they can use surveillance video and talk to nurses, doctors and other visitors in the ICU.

 

[tiredblondy]

Wow arielilane...thanks:gthanks:

Pach



This is what I was thanking arielilane about. There is no record of JS leaving a message on RZ's cell that I can see. It is my understanding that even if one doesn't answer the call would be recorded somewhere.

And once again I say this...Someone listened to a message at 12:51 but for the life of me I cannot convince myself to think it was Rebecca!