Rebecca's Death

[Just Checking]

But on discussion Boards...for the sake of discussion, opinions and feelings get mixed up in deciding what we think is.."fact."

Boy, that is an understatement on this discussion board! Wew! A lot of emotion here.

 

[Just Checking]

"Finger prints are not needed nor is DNA - stress causes all kinds of behavior hence insanity claims at trial! Given a witness, this remains a valid dicussion string until the witness validity is determined inappropriate - which hasnt occurred unless since dismissed by AB."

i am puzzled by this comment. How does "stress" cause a behavior that allows someone to kill someone ELSE in a room and leave no fingerprints or DNA?

The absence of fingerprints and DNA by these women is absolutely significant. By the standard set above, anybody could have been in that room....we could accuse ANYBODY. Maybe Drew Petersen killed RZ...his Dna and fingerprints aren't in the room either and he certainly has been stressed lately.

Is there a witness who puts either DS or her sister IN THE ROOM? If not, the absence of DNA or fingerprints makes the a accusation a huge leap.

By this logic, if there is a robbery in the Office above yours, you could be a prime suspect even if your fingerprints and DNA show you never had been in that office...just because someone may have seen you in or near the building.

Ok Ok...clearly I need to explain my comment The discussion string includeds comments from another member, based on my proposal that DS and NR could have both been at the house (re: NR claiming to be there, and DS seen by witness) and potentially been involved in the intended or unintended death of RZ, that neither finger prints nor DNA were found on the scene that pointed to NR or DS. Well, my flippant comment was neither finger prints nor DNA were needed to potentially indict someone for involvement; however this comment required further dialogue: 1) gloves could be worn to cover up finger prints, 2) DNA - first it has to be sufficiently collected, second it has to be matched to DNA taken from those directly or indirectly assoicated. The first premise could explain the lack of finger prints, but the second one is a little more convuluted. Just because your DNA wasnt identified, which could mean you had DNA on the site but not found, doesnt mean someone cannot be assessed for involvement in the crime.

 

[stmarysmead]

Thanks for your reply. I see your point more clearly. Mine could just be stated that in the absence of anything else to link DS or NR to the ROOM or the "death scene"...it's a pretty wide leap at this point to assume they were there.

But I truly appreciate the clarification.

 

[Just Checking]

Thanks for your reply. I see your point more clearly. Mine could just be stated that in the absence of anything else to link DS or NR to the ROOM or the "death scene"...it's a pretty wide leap at this point to assume they were there.

But I truly appreciate the clarification.

Actually, not farfetched at all that NR and DS could have been involved IMO. Why?

• NR states she was at Mansion Tuesday night around 10PM (her reason: to talk to RZ to find out what really caused MS injury)
• Witness claims to have seen DS at Mansion Tuesday night
• So, it is a short leap to enquire what was going on?
• NR gave her reason for being there (i.e., interest in finding out from RZ directly what really happened to MS)
  • Now, why at this late time of day as well as this far into the hospitalization is NR seeking information directly from RZ? Wouldnt that be JS's responsibility? What authority or responsibility does an Aunt or ex-sister-in-law have with a grilfriend!
    • Did JS not question RZ sufficiently to a level of understanding what happended to his son by this time???
    • Did JS not explain sufficiently what transpired to DS, who would than logically contact her sister, who presumably arrived as her only family to comfort her, and explain the situation?
    • Was AS purposely not divulging information?
    • Was AS hiding something?
    • Was AS shifting blame or focus on RZ as opposed to himself?
    • Was AS distancing himself from the tragedy?
    • Did DS know or instruct NR to go to RZ on her behalf?
    • Did AS know NR was going to talk to his girlfriend!?

[*]But, given that witness states he/she saw a person looking nothing like NR, but like DS; well than, what was going on?

• why were they both really there?
• Was NR really looking for DS, not wanting to speak with RZ as stated?
• Was DS really looking for NR, and not with cell phone as LE summized?
• Were they both planning to be at Mansion
• What really transpired?
• LE places DS somewhere else (at least her cell phone)
• But can any person corroborate where DS was other than witness (knowing where DS cell phone was doesnt count)?
• Can anyone on G Ave (DS residence courtesy of AS) corroborate when NR and DS returned home?
• Etc. Etc.

[/LIST]
Of course it has been suggested that LE has information and explanation for all of this. HOWEVER, the reason this discussion board is continuing today is because what LE has claimed in this tragic case is in question!!!

 

[stmarysmead]

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/

I find this interview with Mary, RZ's sister to be very sad...and also very revealing. Mary was RZ's confidant and it appears she believed that RZ had a great deal of difficulty in that blended family. JS allowed his two older kids to be "openly rude" to her. This hurt RZ so much that she told Mary that "by the end of summer" she might have to tell JS she needed "time to herself."

Also the subject of marriage appeared to be off the table.."not being discussed at this point."

So RZ's only problem was not DS. She and JS were not this divinely happy couple to be envied.

RZ had just spent...was it two weeks...with those older disrespectful children who Mary says "did not want her." This must have been very stressful. Not to mention that DS seems to have had a good relationship with those older kids...she calls them Maxie's "brother and sister" on the Foundation website and speaks of his happiness at being at the same school they attended.

So RZ was the odd man out. I wonder if Max was starting to emulate the disrespect that the older kids were allowed to get away with by Jonah? The situation may have been very tense in that house the morning those older children left.

In any event, it seems this was no great love story. Whatever the arrangement was, it was unraveling, at least this is what RZ confided to her sister. It certainly points to unhappiness and stress...a component that when combined with the horror of Max 's death, could easily explain the suicide.

 

[Just Checking]

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/

I find this interview with Mary, RZ's sister to be very sad...and also very revealing. Mary was RZ's confidant and it appears she believed that RZ had a great deal of difficulty in that blended family. JS allowed his two older kids to be "openly rude" to her. This hurt RZ so much that she told Mary that "by the end of summer" she might have to tell JS she needed "time to herself."

Also the subject of marriage appeared to be off the table.."not being discussed at this point."

So RZ's only problem was not DS. She and JS were not this divinely happy couple to be envied.

RZ had just spent...was it two weeks...with those older disrespectful children who Mary says "did not want her." This must have been very stressful. Not to mention that DS seems to have had a good relationship with those older kids...she calls them Maxie's "brother and sister" on the Foundation website and speaks of his happiness at being at the same school they attended.

So RZ was the odd man out. I wonder if Max was starting to emulate the disrespect that the older kids were allowed to get away with by Jonah? The situation may have been very tense in that house the morning those older children left.

In any event, it seems this was no great love story. Whatever the arrangement was, it was unraveling, at least this is what RZ confided to her sister. It certainly points to unhappiness and stress...a component that when combined with the horror of Max 's death, could easily explain the suicide.

Clearly, any woman entering this dysfunctional family, yes - two divorces and two sets of kids, one ex-wife that clung onto to AS not wanting him to leave her, and a live in girl friend has explosive potential to be dysfunctional and out of control, does so with significant risk! New girl friends take notice!!!

 

[stmarysmead]

Great post...I only differ with you on one point: I'm not sure DS is this besotted ex-wife, clinging to the fabulous JS. "I'm not going to let you leave me," is something i would have to have heard in context. Maybe he was putting her out of the car...and she was not going to let him leave her by the side of the road. Are their more details? Where were they? At home...maybe they had friends coming over and she was furious at him taking off?

Those few words don't make the case for me. I think the only person DS wasn't going to let go of..was her only child. After a nasty divorce, IMO it is probable she neither liked nor trusted him. By the way, whether one believes it or not, Wikipedia says JS had a 3 year custody battle with the FIRST Mrs. S.

DS strikes me as a very strong woman. I think she was going to stand up with him and when it came to her only child, she was a MamaBear.

But the problems for RZ were far more than DS. Why did JS never defend her when his older kids were disrespectful? Mary certainly does not describe a situation where RZ is being loved , cherished, and treated with respect.

Those last months of her life seem very, very stressful and sad.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Clearly, any woman entering this dysfunctional family, yes - two divorces and two sets of kids, one ex-wife that clung onto to AS not wanting him to leave her, and a live in girl friend has explosive potential to be dysfunctional and out of control, does so with significant risk! New girl friends take notice!!!

From what I've read, it seems Dina and Kimberly and all the kids got along well. Seems Rebecca is the only one that had problems with anyone. Maybe it was Rebecca that was the problem, IMO.

 

[time]

I have never read anything indicating how Dina and Kimberly even interacted .

* do you have any MSM link for anything related?

I have never read anything where Kimberly or Jonah's older children said anything about Dina one way or the other, any evidence or discussion of that appears to have originated with Dina including that one (?) picture of her with Jonah's older children and MAx if IIRC.

* do you have any MSM link for anything related?

To counter any of this, there is actually a picture of Jonah and Rebecca attending the bar mitzvah together where there are many family members of Kimberly's and Jonah's including Kimberly's husband and all of Jonah's children but I do not believe Dina or any of her family are there (I doubt they were invited).

 

[time]

Clearly, any woman entering this dysfunctional family, yes - two divorces and two sets of kids, one ex-wife that clung onto to AS not wanting him to leave her, and a live in girl friend has explosive potential to be dysfunctional and out of control, does so with significant risk! New girl friends take notice!!!

Amen... I believe the environment was already set when Rebecca came into the picture except that I would not refer to her as simply a girlfriend and I really find the term 'live in girlfriend' a bit degrading when referring to a committed relationship between two people although I know it it easier to use than 'partner' or 'significant other'.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I have never read anything indicating how Dina and Kimberly even interacted .

* do you have any MSM link for anything related?

I have never read anything where Kimberly or Jonah's older children said anything about Dina one way or the other, any evidence or discussion of that appears to have originated with Dina including that one (?) picture of her with Jonah's older children and MAx if IIRC.

* do you have any MSM link for anything related?

To counter any of this, there is actually a picture of Jonah and Rebecca attending the bar mitzvah together where there are many family members of Kimberly's and Jonah's including Kimberly's husband and all of Jonah's children but I do not believe Dina or any of her family are there (I doubt they were invited).

<modsnip>.

Don't you think that if there were problems with Dina and the teenagers with others that we would have heard it from Mary Zahau by now? I do.

Dina not being at the bar mitzvah means nothing. Doubt you would invite your ex-wife in the first place, but she may have been invited and couldn't attend, IMO.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Amen... I believe the environment was already set when Rebecca came into the picture except that I would not refer to her as simply a girlfriend and I really find the term 'live in girlfriend' a bit degrading when referring to a committed relationship between two people although I know it it easier to use than 'partner' or 'significant other'.

Doesn't sound like much of a "committed relationship" to me if RZ was planning on leaving at the end of the summer, IMO.

 

[time]

Doesn't sound like much of a "committed relationship" to me if RZ was planning on leaving at the end of the summer, IMO.

Just because a committed relationship might come to an end does not mean it was not committed. I'm unsure of the logic behind your response.

Besides, I believe the article said that Rebecca was going to talk to Jonah about needing time to herself, not that she was 'leaving'. In many situations where there are problems beyond your control, it's healthy to take a step back. It doesn't mean she didn't love Jonah or he didn't love her.

 

[Just Checking]

Amen... I believe the environment was already set when Rebecca came into the picture except that I would not refer to her as simply a girlfriend and I really find the term 'live in girlfriend' a bit degrading when referring to a committed relationship between two people although I know it it easier to use than 'partner' or 'significant other'.

Yes, agreed! More of a partner based on time together, clearly sharing a residence, and day to day life!

 

[Just Checking]

Doesn't sound like much of a "committed relationship" to me if RZ was planning on leaving at the end of the summer, IMO.

Who knows based on "what we know" what RZ was dealing with emotionally, commitment wise with Jonah, etc. Maybe she was looking for a commitment sooner than later, or simply a longer view of a commitment, or numerous different commitment/communication/requirements/etc. issues????? To much for us to considered and certainly would result in way too much speculation. Let's try to give RZ a little respect here! DS as well as that goes; however, DS is still alive and making herself visible in the media so that is free game for commenting on. But, similar respect needs to be offered to DS. Again, time will tell who contributed to what and how.

 

[time]

<modsnip>.

Don't you think that if there were problems with Dina and the teenagers with others that we would have heard it from Mary Zahau by now? I do.

Isn't that assuming that Rebecca would know about problems between the teenagers and Dina (because she would have had to then tell Mary)? I'm not sure she would, I highly doubt the kids would say something to her and if there were problems I doubt Dina would say there were.

Maybe Mary does know something and isn't saying anything because she isn't out to smear Dina or doesn't think it's important int he scheme of things.

Plus, this is not a contest between Dina and Rebecca. Dina had been in their lives for years but hadn't been living with their dad for at least 2+ years. In a childs development at those ages, 2 years can make a lot of difference. Dina may have had them over occasionally to see Max, but that is an entirely different context than just meeting the kids a couple of years ago, you are not related to one of their siblings, they are possibly at your house more, and so on.

Dina not being at the bar mitzvah means nothing. Doubt you would invite your ex-wife in the first place, but she may have been invited and couldn't attend, IMO.

My point is that Rebecca was included as a part of the family at an important life event.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Just because a committed relationship might come to an end does not mean it was not committed. I'm unsure of the logic behind your response.

Besides, I believe the article said that Rebecca was going to talk to Jonah about needing time to herself, not that she was 'leaving'. In many situations where there are problems beyond your control, it's healthy to take a step back. It doesn't mean she didn't love Jonah or he didn't love her.

Just how "committed" are you if you are thinking of leaving because you can't get along your boyfriends children, just my opinion. Ones that would be adults soon enough.

And hadn't Rebecca just moved in with Jonah in January? That's only seven months...not a long term relationship, IMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

Mary's words in that article make it seem as if JS was not particularly "committed" to her Sister. Marriage talk was off the table. He allowed his older kids to disrespect her. She seems very uncertain if JS loved her sister at all. This is not an interview with DS..this is R Z beloved sister and confidant.

It does not solve this mystery to make their relationship some ideal romantic love affair if it was not. And it does not disrespect RZ in any way if JS just wasn't that into her as the year wore on. instead it helps explain why suicide may be likely..when a troubled relationship suddenly included the death of one partner's son while in the care of the other.

Her Sister is facing the truth about how RZ was treated. I think it is important to do just that in evaluating the situation.

 

[time]

Mary's words in that article make it seem as if JS was not particularly "committed" to her Sister. Marriage talk was off the table. He allowed his older kids to disrespect her. She seems very uncertain if JS loved her sister at all. This is not an interview with DS..this is R Z beloved sister and confidant.

It does not solve this mystery to make their relationship some ideal romantic love affair if it was not. And it does not disrespect RZ in any way if JS just wasn't that into her as the year wore on. instead it helps explain why suicide may be likely..when a troubled relationship suddenly included the death of one partner's son while in the care of the other.

Her Sister is facing the truth about how RZ was treated. I think it is important to do just that in evaluating the situation.

No one has tried to make this into an ideal romantic love affair.

I don't think it has anything to do with Jonah being as 'into her' as he was. I expect this is what Jonah was like as it sounds very similar to Kimberly's account.

The truth only includes what her sister, Mary, actually said. Our interpretations are not the truth nor can we claim they are. No one has said these things are not important so why are you saying that. You seem to want to go way beyond what was said in order to support the suicide theory. It does not help explain suicide, quite the opposite. If Rebecca was going to be ok having some time to herself, or as you have concluded, she was leaving Jonah, then why would she commit suicide because of an accident she felt horrible about but didn't feel was her fault. :waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

No one has tried to make this into an ideal romantic love affair.

I don't think it has anything to do with Jonah being as 'into her' as he was. I expect this is what Jonah was like as it sounds very similar to Kimberly's account.

The truth only includes what her sister, Mary, actually said. Our interpretations are not the truth nor can we claim they are. No one has said these things are not important so why are you saying that. You seem to want to go way beyond what was said in order to support the suicide theory. It does not help explain suicide, quite the opposite. If Rebecca was going to be ok having some time to herself, or as you have concluded, she was leaving Jonah, then why would she commit suicide because of an accident she felt horrible about but didn't feel was her fault. :waitasec:

Yea, I don't know why she would be so devastated even if he told her to get out (as speculated by some) in that phone message.
Why didn't she just get out?