Red Hearts

[Zman]

Thanks Toltec. So it looks to me like JR is the only one who ever said anything about the ink being the same color...

How do you get that from this? LS tells John the palm heart was in red ink.

JR: (whistles) That's weird. This was a very nice event and a nice award. But it wasn't a big deal for me. But that is bizarre.

LS: ....Could Patsy, or would JonBenet have written that?

JR: No.

LS:...Well, the reason it has come to our attention. JonBenet - did you ever read or hear anything about her in the autopsy report? That she had a heart on her hand?

JR: I heard that just recently.

LS: And the heart was in red ink?I don't know what that means. You got any thoughts on that?
(That first question mark must be a punctuation mistake. This does not read like a question. Besides JR offers no answer. Seems like he's telling JR the heart was in red ink.)
JR:...She wouldn't have drawn on herself like that.

 

[BlueCrab]

IMO the mark on JonBenet's left palm has some kind of significance in this murder. It doesn't look like a drawing of a heart. If it was a drawing, then where's the red ink pen? No red ink pen was ever found in the house by the cops.

I personally believe the mark to be the result of an injury overlooked by coroner John Meyer, as he perveived it to be nothing but a child's red ink drawing and dismissed its importance.

I personally think the injury is a contusion caused by a heavy object with sharp edges, such as a table leg or sofa leg, resting on the palm of JonBenet's outstretched hands positioned over her head as she lay on her back. The purpose would have been to keep JonBenet's hands from interfering with whatever the perp was doing to her.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

I would suggest, looking at the picture of "heart in hand", drawing one yourself on your left hand, then look closely, it would be far too awkward to place a heart in the same "position". Have someone else draw the heart, bingo, it is placed the same.

 

[capps]

"I personally believe the mark to be the result of an injury overlooked by coroner John Meyer, as he perveived it to be nothing but a child's red ink drawing and dismissed its importance."

BlueCrab,

Dr. Meyer did not overlook the mark,he saw it,and determined it was red ink. The fact that you are saying Dr.Meyer pooh-poohed it away as not important,is a BIG assumption on your part.

In fact it is disappointing,coming from you,who has said in many prior posts:"... I will go with what the experts say any day ..." Does this apply only when it agrees to what you want the answer to be?

 

[Toltec]

The Coroner was very thorough...and the important fact is this:

We are not privy to his extensive notes from the Autopsy....this includes slides and skin analysis, etc...

 

[BlueCrab]

"I personally believe the mark to be the result of an injury overlooked by coroner John Meyer, as he perveived it to be nothing but a child's red ink drawing and dismissed its importance."

BlueCrab,

Dr. Meyer did not overlook the mark,he saw it,and determined it was red ink. The fact that you are saying Dr.Meyer pooh-poohed it away as not important,is a BIG assumption on your part.

In fact it is disappointing,coming from you,who has said in many prior posts:"... I will go with what the experts say any day ..." Does this apply only when it agrees to what you want the answer to be?

capps,

I go by what the evidence says, and the evidence says you cannot draw a red heart on your palm with a red ink pen that doesn't exist. The cops turned the house inside out but no red ink pen was found.

IMO the reason a red ink pen was never found is because there never was a red ink pen drawing on the palm of JonBenet's hand. It doesn't even look like a drawing. That's because it's likely a contusion, not a drawing.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

IF that is the case BC, it would be one more thing the perp brought into the house. What kind of person carries red pens? I know many women who use them to address Christmas cards and professors use red pens to mark papers..hmmm

 

[UKGuy]

capps,

I go by what the evidence says, and the evidence says you cannot draw a red heart on your palm with a red ink pen that doesn't exist. The cops turned the house inside out but no red ink pen was found.

IMO the reason a red ink pen was never found is because there never was a red ink pen drawing on the palm of JonBenet's hand. It doesn't even look like a drawing. That's because it's likely a contusion, not a drawing.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Interesting logic! In another thread on another topic you have suggested items missing from the crime scene were removed by person(s) who rode off into the night on a bike to avoid footprints being left in the snow! Why could they not have similarly removed any pen ?

If I were to draw an inference from the absence of evidence I might conclude that the heart was drawn during the White's party?

 

[Eagle1]

It's a LINE drawing, so I don't think it's a contusion. I think probably she and Daphne were playing around with the newspaper picture and JonBenet drew a heart around her dad's head and on her hand, but I could well be mistaken, and the perp could have done it to make it look like the children did it, as someone planted the dictionary open to the word incest and JAR's blanket and book in the suitcase.

Wish we could know more about this organization.

The site has some additional sites. Here's a short copy/paste from one of them.

​

Stop It Now! programs across the country and the United Kingdom could not have been created without the support of many individuals, organizations, foundations, and agencies. We gratefully acknowledge the incredible contributions that have made these programs possible.
​

​

​

 

[Morag]

This week's issue of US News (the one with George Washington on the cover) has an article about Freemasonry, and one of the illustrations (referring to the IOOF, another fraternal organization) is of a hand with a red heart on the palm. I would wonder if anyone involved in the case is a member of the International Organization of Odd Fellows?

 

[capps]

"I go by what the evidence says, and the evidence says you cannot draw a red heart on your palm with a red ink pen that doesn't exist. The cops turned the house inside out but no red ink pen was found."

BlueCrab.

No ... the evidence says,as stated by the medical examiner,there is a red ink mark on JB's hand.

There is red ink on JB's hand,there is red ink on the article with JR's picture circled in a heart.No one knows if the two had anything to do with each other. All I know is,someone at sometime had access to a red pen.

The red ink pen does exist ... they just can't find it.

 

[Toltec]

The red ink pen is gone along with the remnants of the duct tape and cord. Patsy could have easily taken these things away via her boots. She got the idea from the woman who stuffed sensitive documents in her boots, walked out of the White House in the Oliver North Iran-Contra affair.

I know that Patsy kept up with current events...like the OJ murder investigation. She runs outside and tells her gardener that OJ was found not guilty. She even kept up with the Susan Smith case...and this one that just occured a couple of months ago...the child who was kidnapped and found murdered by a sexual offender. She sent the child's grandmother a pillow.

 

[tipper]

The red ink pen is gone along with the remnants of the duct tape and cord. Patsy could have easily taken these things away via her boots. She got the idea from the woman who stuffed sensitive documents in her boots, walked out of the White House in the Oliver North Iran-Contra affair.

I know that Patsy kept up with current events...like the OJ murder investigation. She runs outside and tells her gardener that OJ was found not guilty. She even kept up with the Susan Smith case...and this one that just occured a couple of months ago...the child who was kidnapped and found murdered by a sexual offender. She sent the child's grandmother a pillow.

Ever tried to stuff a role of duct tape in your boot? Following OJ isn't keeping up with current events. Nobody could get away from OJ coverage. She had never heard of Susan Smith til they were in Atlanta for the funeral. Obviously she didn't follow even the evening news and she rarely read books. John couldn't name a single book she'd read. ST was the one who decided she was well-educated. Neither has ever struck me as having much intellectual curiosity and that includes following the news.

As far as sending the pillow - I suspect she's more aware of children who are the victims of crime than she used to be.

 

[capps]

"Ever tried to stuff a role of duct tape in your boot?"

Can't argue with that one!

 

[BlueCrab]

"Ever tried to stuff a role of duct tape in your boot?"

capps,

Correct. The missing crime scene evidence wasn't in Patsy's boots nor on any other Ramsey. IMO the missing items from the crime scene were taken out of the house by a person who had been invited into the house that night and who, with the blessing of the Ramseys, left the house hours before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 AM.

The missing crime scene items carried out by the fifth person in the house that night included:

o the roll of black Shur-Tape brand duct tape
o the package of white Stansport brand nylon cord which comes in 100' rolls
o the tip of the paint brush handle
o the wipe-down cloth
o JonBenet's size 6 panties
o the red ink pen
o the stun gun
o nine pages from the notebook from which the ransom note was torn
o Burke's Hi-Tec boots with a built-in compass


BlueCrab

 

[capps]

capps,

Correct. The missing crime scene evidence wasn't in Patsy's boots nor on any other Ramsey. IMO the missing items from the crime scene were taken out of the house by a person who had been invited into the house that night and who, with the blessing of the Ramseys, left the house hours before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 AM.

The missing crime scene items carried out by the fifth person in the house that night included:

o the roll of black Shur-Tape brand duct tape
o the package of white Stansport brand nylon cord which comes in 100' rolls
o the tip of the paint brush handle
o the wipe-down cloth
o JonBenet's size 6 panties
o the red ink pen
o the stun gun
o nine pages from the notebook from which the ransom note was torn
o Burke's Hi-Tec boots with a built-in compass


BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Ohhh ... so that's where that red pen that doesn't exist is! (Sorry BC,I just HAD to get that sarcastic remark in).

All that you state above,could possibly be true ... IF one wants to follow that theory.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Ohhh ... so that's where that red pen that doesn't exist is! (Sorry BC,I just HAD to get that sarcastic remark in).

All that you state above,could possibly be true ... IF one wants to follow that theory.

Okay Smart ***,

When I said the red ink pen doesn't exist, it means it doesn't exist in the house. There are millions of red ink pens in existence, but none of them were found in the Ramsey's house. So, no matter what theory is being espoused, how can the red "heart" be drawn on JonBenet's palm by a non-existant red pen? It can't, which leads me to believe the mark on JonBenet's palm is a bruise.

BlueCrab

 

[Linda7NJ]

What stun gun?:snooty:

 

[capps]

Okay Smart ***,

When I said the red ink pen doesn't exist, it means it doesn't exist in the house. There are millions of red ink pens in existence, but none of them were found in the Ramsey's house. So, no matter what theory is being espoused, how can the red "heart" be drawn on JonBenet's palm by a non-existant red pen? It can't, which leads me to believe the mark on JonBenet's palm is a bruise.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Above is your original post,I hope you don't mind,but I'm going to alter your post,to make a point:

ALTERED POSTaltered words are capitalized):

When I said the HI-TEC BOOTS doesn't exist,it means it doesn't exist in the house.There are millions of HI-TEC BOOTS in existence,but none of them were found in the Ramsey's house. So,no matter what theory is being espoused,how can the HI-TEC'S BE OWNED BY BURKE,WHEN THE BOOTS ARE NON_EXISTANT? It can't,which leads me to believe BURKE DID NOT OWN HI-TEC BOOTS.

So you dismiss Dr.Meyer's determination of red ink,because no pen was found.Can you dismiss Fleet III's statement of Burke owning Hi-tec boots,because no boots were found?

(I have no idea how that smile icon got in,I have icons turned off)

 

[sissi]

I don't believe that Burke owned hi tecs with a compass, however he could have owned any brand of "compass shoe". Something about the building of the "shoe story" never rang true.