Red Hearts

[sissi]

I'll start, the coroner said "vegetable or fruit, may be pineapple", he wasn't stating pineapple definitively.

edit to add...
One day the kids got some yogurt out of the fridge, there was a layer of pineapple in the bottom to mix in..I think it was breyers?..however I thought, I would have sworn they ate no pineapple that day if I hadn't been in the room to see it. I wonder if something like this slipped past? I wondered, as well, if Patsy had used the Barnhill's oven to bake a ham, and Jonbenet tasted the pineapple over there? I do remember Patsy saying something about baking a ham at the Barnhill's.

 

[BlueCrab]

I'll start, the coroner said "vegetable or fruit, may be pineapple", he wasn't stating pineapple definitively.

edit to add...
One day the kids got some yogurt out of the fridge, there was a layer of pineapple in the bottom to mix in..I think it was breyers?..however I thought, I would have sworn they ate no pineapple that day if I hadn't been in the room to see it. I wonder if something like this slipped past? I wondered, as well, if Patsy had used the Barnhill's oven to bake a ham, and Jonbenet tasted the pineapple over there? I do remember Patsy saying something about baking a ham at the Barnhill's.

sissi,

It was definitely pineapple. It was the only thing in JonBenet's small intestine and, estimating from the rate of digestion that had occurred, she ate it about one hour before she died, which means she ate it that night.

The pineapple in JonBenet's small intestine was removed and kept frozen to be sent to a university to be studied by two professors who positively identified the pineapple to be consistent with the pineapple in the bowl found on the breakfast room table.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

Where did this info originate BC?

 

[Eagle1]

Very recently I caught the very end of some kind of commercial where a kid had a heart in her hand, and I've tried to wait about mentioning it to see if it'll come on again. Anyone else see it? I think it was a group of children, maybe sitting on the floor, maybe something like a birthday party and they were holding up their hands. It was over quick as a flash.

Maybe it's a symbolism that most of us just never noticed. We may even have drawn hearts on our hands as children and just don't remember it. Maybe JonBenet and Daphne were playing with a red pen that evening Or, I still say, the perp who planted JAR's blanket in the suitcase and the dictionary open to the word Incest just may have used the heart as some kind of habit or signature. The woman that started StopItNow, who says she was abused, how can she not care about JonBenet and not respond to our inquiries? Someone else try. At least two of us have.

It might be important to us to find out where they got their logo. Anyone live near where their HQ is?

 

[simplesimon]

Well the corener claims that JBR was hit over the head. Maybe he's worng about that too. Maybe he dropped her on the floor causing that gash in her head or maybe it was never there. That picture could be someone else's skull. Maybe the underware were marked Thursday and not Wednesday? I wonder if the measurments of the rope are wrong too. And let's not even start that whole pinapple in the system story.

Maybe JBR's not even dead? Was it really JBR? Did he test her DNA?

I wonder.

Zman,
You really make me laugh,
you continually talk about the evidence but continually bring up FW.Where is evidence of him being involved in the crime.?
Oh yeah , maybe it was his hi-tech print near the body, and his suitcase in the basement. And don't forget the knife! probably his too.
Oh thats right he claimed he did not see JBR in the cellar and he is a liar ..because???
This is a discussion board and everyone has theories,obviously whatever the ME,PD and PI's have investigated have not solved the crime.There is no harm in looking in other directions.
You do not have to be rude or sarcastic to disgree.

 

[Rupert]

Well, I 'll say it again (my vote), I clearly see a "G" in red ink.

What would "G" have to do with "Victory! S.B.T.C"?
God? G____ name?
I don't know, but I see a "G".

 

[Zman]

Zman,
You really make me laugh,
you continually talk about the evidence but continually bring up FW.Where is evidence of him being involved in the crime.????.

His actions are as strange as the R's yet he receives a pass from so many.

Oh yeah , maybe it was his hi-tech print near the body, and his suitcase in the basement. And don't forget the knife! probably his too.?

No, but none of that incriminates anybody. Although FW is as close to the R's as anyone can get so I'm sure he would be capable of moving through the house freely. These would be things he may have known about.

Oh thats right he claimed he did not see JBR in the cellar and he is a liar ..because???.

She was in the cellar. Thats the definition of a lie.
It is more of a lie than any the R's have been accused of.

This is a discussion board and everyone has theories,obviously whatever the ME,PD and PI's have investigated have not solved the crime.There is no harm in looking in other directions.
You do not have to be rude or sarcastic to disgree.

I am sure glad I at least make you laugh. That was the point. I must admit I love sarcasm.

I'm sorry if the truth conflicts with fiction.

I have to believe the coroner knows what a heart looks like.

 

[BlueCrab]

Where did this info originate BC?

sissi,

The pineapple info is from the Bonita Papers, which is a rough draft of a proposed book that was never published. The draft was written using police reports and other information stolen from the BPD's files kept in a law office in Denver. A legal secretary in the office, whose first name was Bonita, had copied the information. Here's what the Bonita Papers had to say about the pineapple:

"Coroner Meyer had noted in his autopsy examination that the food found in JonBenet's intestine would have been consumed approximately two hours before JonBenet's death. However, both John and Patsy stated that no one had eaten anything at the house when they returned from the White's dinner party, and that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and remained asleep.

"In February, 1998, detectives from the Boulder police department asked their assistance in conducting an analysis of the contents from the intestine obtained during the autopsy. At the initial examination, Coroner Meyer had suspected that the retrieved substance was pineapple fragments. The bowl of pineapple detectives found on the dining room table at the residence the morning of December 26 had been taken into evidence that morning and frozen for future comparison studies. After examining the two samples, the biology professors confirmed that the intestional substance was pineapple, and that both this specimen and the pineapple found in the bowl contained portions of the outer rind of the fruit.

"The study also identified both samples as being fresh pineapple, not canned. The conclusion of the two professors was that there were no distinctive differences between that found in the bowl and that removed from the intestines.

"Prior fingerprint testing on the bowl that contained the pineapple had picked up the prints from both Patsy and Burke."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

That's all the Bonita Papers said about the pineapple. It is typed above exactly as I have them. Please remember that it was a rough draft of a proposed book written from the notes and reports of others. The stolen Bonita Papers were eventually sold to the tabs by others for $70,000, but no one was ever arrested.

BlueCrab

 

[simplesimon]

His actions are as strange as the R's yet he receives a pass from so many.
No, but none of that incriminates anybody. Although FW is as close to the R's as anyone can get so I'm sure he would be capable of moving through the house freely. These would be things he may have known about.
She was in the cellar. Thats the definition of a lie.
It is more of a lie than any the R's have been accused of.
I am sure glad I at least make you laugh. That was the point. I must admit I love sarcasm.

I'm sorry if the truth conflicts with fiction.

I have to believe the coroner knows what a heart looks like.

But the real point is NO ONE knows the truth.
It was the R"S house and daughter that this happened to,not FW.There were conflicting stories if JBR was awake when arriving home.I believe the source was Burke at GJ,but if not someone will correct me.
The other issue that has always bothered me is the Hi-tec boot print. They denied anyone had them, but again at GJ Burke admitted that he had a pair and FW stated that also. Now that print could have been left at any time, Burke did live there.So why lie about it?
I personally believe that FW was suspicious of the R's and that is the cause of his actions. Again that is just my opinion which I am entitled to.
Thats what makes this case so interesting, we all read the same reports but come to different conclusions.
I personally think we will never know the truth and that is the real shame.
As far as the sarcasm goes, I have been known to be a wee bit sarcastic at times....however I do try to respect others opinions even if I do not agree.

 

[Zman]

But the real point is NO ONE knows the truth.
It was the R"S house and daughter that this happened to,not FW.

It doesn't mean we have to confuse what truth we have.
I agree, there are many things about this case which scream for discussion and opinion.
We have very few facts like the autopsy report.

There were conflicting stories if JBR was awake when arriving home.I believe the source was Burke at GJ,but if not someone will correct me. The other issue that has always bothered me is the Hi-tec boot print. They denied anyone had them, but again at GJ Burke admitted that he had a pair and FW stated that also. Now that print could have been left at any time, Burke did live there.So why lie about it?

What would be the point of lying about JBR being asleep or awake? Pretend they said she was awake and then went to bed the same time as Burke. How does that help or hurt the R's case? Why lie about it?

Don't let the Hi tech boot print bother you. The boots were 3 years old. I think your asking a lot from someone to remember every pair of shoes their childeren own. Not to mention someone who has gone through cancer treatment, moving to a new city and the murder of her youngest child.
Look how easily you call that a lie.
I find it weird that FW would even remember them. Why does he pay such attention to the R's children's shoes? Maybe to help incriminate a R?

I personally believe that FW was suspicious of the R's and that is the cause of his actions. Again that is just my opinion which I am entitled to. Thats what makes this case so interesting, we all read the same reports but come to different conclusions.

Thats not a good enough reason to let FW off the hook. It's convient for you and the RDI opinion. Maybe when JBR was found murdered the R's became suspicious of FW and thats the reason for some of their actions.

 

[tipper]

sissi,

The pineapple info is from the Bonita Papers, which is a rough draft of a proposed book that was never published. The draft was written using police reports and other information stolen from the BPD's files kept in a law office in Denver. A legal secretary in the office, whose first name was Bonita, had copied the information. Here's what the Bonita Papers had to say about the pineapple:

"Coroner Meyer had noted in his autopsy examination that the food found in JonBenet's intestine would have been consumed approximately two hours before JonBenet's death. However, both John and Patsy stated that no one had eaten anything at the house when they returned from the White's dinner party, and that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and remained asleep.

"In February, 1998, detectives from the Boulder police department asked their assistance in conducting an analysis of the contents from the intestine obtained during the autopsy. At the initial examination, Coroner Meyer had suspected that the retrieved substance was pineapple fragments. The bowl of pineapple detectives found on the dining room table at the residence the morning of December 26 had been taken into evidence that morning and frozen for future comparison studies. After examining the two samples, the biology professors confirmed that the intestional substance was pineapple, and that both this specimen and the pineapple found in the bowl contained portions of the outer rind of the fruit.

"The study also identified both samples as being fresh pineapple, not canned. The conclusion of the two professors was that there were no distinctive differences between that found in the bowl and that removed from the intestines.

"Prior fingerprint testing on the bowl that contained the pineapple had picked up the prints from both Patsy and Burke."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

That's all the Bonita Papers said about the pineapple. It is typed above exactly as I have them. Please remember that it was a rough draft of a proposed book written from the notes and reports of others. The stolen Bonita Papers were eventually sold to the tabs by others for $70,000, but no one was ever arrested.

BlueCrab

The Bonita papers are a piece of anti-Ramsey propaganda. They contain factual errors and mis-characterizations which have already been enumerated.

e.g. Where in the autopsy did Meyer note a two hour time period for the food consumption? I can't find it.

 

[simplesimon]

It doesn't mean we have to confuse what truth we have.
I agree, there are many things about this case which scream for discussion and opinion.
We have very few facts like the autopsy report.
What would be the point of lying about JBR being asleep or awake? Pretend they said she was awake and then went to bed the same time as Burke. How does that help or hurt the R's case? Why lie about it?

Don't let the Hi tech boot print bother you. The boots were 3 years old. I think your asking a lot from someone to remember every pair of shoes their childeren own. Not to mention someone who has gone through cancer treatment, moving to a new city and the murder of her youngest child.
Look how easily you call that a lie.
I find it weird that FW would even remember them. Why does he pay such attention to the R's children's shoes? Maybe to help incriminate aR




Thats not a good enough reason to let FW off the hook. It's convient for you and the RDI opinion. Maybe when JBR was found murdered the R's became suspicious of FW and thats the reason for some of their actions.[/QUOTE


I think in a murder investigation where my child was murdered I would remember a unique pair of shoes that someone in my house had. We are not talking Nike' sneeks. Do you think OJ forgot he had Bruno Magli's also?

Whose hook is FW on? yours? I thought he was cleared.

 

[Zman]

I think in a murder investigation where my child was murdered I would remember a unique pair of shoes that someone in my house had. We are not talking Nike' sneeks. Do you think OJ forgot he had Bruno Magli's also?.

Here we go again with....... what you would remember. What you would do. How you would react.

Does everyone else you know do exactly as you do?

Whose hook is FW on? yours? I thought he was cleared.

He's my #1 suspect. I don't feel for sure he did it and most likely I'll never know.

He and everyone else who was not a R was cleared by the BPF because they were convinced that it was the parents. I'd like to know how they cleared him.

Something like this maybe?
LE: Did you kill JBR?
FW: No
LE:Ok, thanks. We'll get those R's.


They were worng.

 

[tipper]

[...]I think in a murder investigation where my child was murdered I would remember a unique pair of shoes that someone in my house had. We are not talking Nike' sneeks. Do you think OJ forgot he had Bruno Magli's also?

[...]

What was unique about them? That as part of a promo (in what was it 1991?) they had a cheap compass tied to their laces?

When my kids needed shoes we went to the store. I said do you see any you like? They tried them on and we went home. I have no idea what brands they wore.

We're not talking Bruno Magli's, we're talking run of the mill kid's shoes.

 

[narlacat]

QUOTE ZMAN>>Here we go again with....... what you would remember. What you would do. How you would react.

Does everyone else you know do exactly as you do?<<


QUOTE CAMPER >>When most everyone is sad, they cry, even men. When people are hungry they find something to eat. When people are dirty they try to find a tub or shower. When people are happy, they often smile or even laugh out loud.

Some things that people do are pretty basic and common. From that personal view to speculate on how they do stuff, versus how a person who lived in the house where a murder was committed does or did things, is up for grabs.<<

 

[Zman]

QUOTE CAMPER >>When most everyone is sad, they cry, even men. When people are hungry they find something to eat. When people are dirty they try to find a tub or shower. When people are happy, they often smile or even laugh out loud.

Some things that people do are pretty basic and common. From that personal view to speculate on how they do stuff, versus how a person who lived in the house where a murder was committed does or did things, is up for grabs.<<

Well you prove my point by saying "most everyone". Not everyone crys at the same thing. Some people are fat because they are hungry to often and some are skinny because they eat less when they are. Some people wash everyday some wash everyother. I would bet there are some who wash more and some who wash less then that. Some take a shower some perfer baths. Some people have big powerful laughs and some muster no more that a giggle no matter how funny they find something. Some people laugh when thier sad or feel hopeless and then cry. Sometimes you don't know how to react and sometimes you react different around different people.

Up for grabs yes, used to draw conclusions from no.

 

[BlueCrab]

We're not talking Bruno Magli's, we're talking run of the mill kid's shoes.

tipper,

Not exactly. Hi-Tec brand hiking boots are not cheap. Many professional people, such as cops, etc., wear Hi-Tec brand footwear. Hi-Tecs are middle of the line and the hiking boots would have cost at least $75.

 

[tipper]

tipper,

Not exactly. Hi-Tec brand hiking boots are not cheap. Many professional people, such as cops, etc., wear Hi-Tec brand footwear. Hi-Tecs are middle of the line and the hiking boots would have cost at least $75.

The kids ones are around $40-60. Not a hugely memorable amount. Spent that the other day on a pair of boots for my son. Have no idea what brand they are.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search.html/sr=39-1/qid=1126468302/ref=sr_39_1/002-2048463-2629668?%5Fencoding=UTF8&node=3393061&sizefit=&index=sporting&rank=&brand=Hi-Tec&rh=a%3A3393061

 

[Jayelles]

What was unique about them? That as part of a promo (in what was it 1991?) they had a cheap compass tied to their laces?

When my kids needed shoes we went to the store. I said do you see any you like? They tried them on and we went home. I have no idea what brands they wore.

We're not talking Bruno Magli's, we're talking run of the mill kid's shoes.

Was it part of a promo (i.e. do we know that?). The reason I ask is that as I recall, the RST tended to deny that such a style of shoe existed at all!

I agree about labels though. I wouldn't know what kind of trainers my kids wore. I did know that my son had "Nike Air Max" once because he went on and on about them. I refused to pay £70 for them so we negotiated. I gave him his £35 that I was willing to pay for a pair fo trainers and he saved up the rest and got his Nike Air Max.

I have Reebox which are probably rubbish but they are comfy. Mingin but comfy.

 

[tipper]

From the "Interesting..." thread

I used to think this was a matter of dispute, but an old newspaper article revealed that it must be true: as part of a special promotional event, Hi-Tec created a specific children's boot, with compasses attached to the laces. I used to wonder, why on earth would anyone even contemplate putting compasses on the laces, when there is no practical reason for a hiker to want to remove their shoes in order to look at the compass? It becomes clear that the compasses were simply decorative and were not meant for ordinary practical use, and were also not meant to be used by real adult hikers. Here is that article, from July 29, 1991. (One more note is that while the article is from 1991, the shoe was not released at that time. It was not released until much later in the year, well after retailers had had time to place their orders based on customer interest in the promotional materials, and late enough for Burke and family to have moved from Georgia to Colorado as they did in 1991):

Hi-Tec Sports will launch hikers promo.

MODESTO, Calif. - Hi-Tec Sports USA will step up the marketing of its new children's outdoor hiking boot with an incentive campaign centered around the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage to the New World.

The company plans to offer posters, stickers and other amenities as part of a Navigators' Club that children can join when they purchase an item in the new Navigators' series.

Hi-Tec unveiled an outdoor boot called the Columbus as part of the series. The shoe features a compass tied to the laces. It comes in mochaspruce and navy, priced to retail at $44.95.

Hi-Tec will coordinate the club membership in Modesto and will send promotional posters with new orders. Details of the promotion will be offered to children in product boxes.

David Pompel, marketing manager, said he expects the promotion to spur children's sales. He reported company-wide sales for Hi-Tec should grow by 60 percent this year.

"When the kids get something in the box, they get excited," he said. Pompel added that Hi-Tec's rugged outdoor look is growing more popular as children focus on the environment.

"We're getting into department stores where the athletic look is dying. We try to make ties to positive values like recycling and the environment."

I think the reason such a shoe's existence was denied was because it kept being described as having a 'built-in compass.' Nobody was ever able to find such a shoe.