Related Issues and Food for Thought

[Alethea Dice]

So, by this scenario, when someone confesses to a lesser crime, they should expect to be charged with a far greater crime first, so that the world should think that they are a murderer when in fact they are actually helping LE? I'm sorry, but that still doesn't make sense to me. Why would anyone cooperate with LE if LE routinely charged people with more serious crimes when they confess to minor ones? There is no incentive there to cooperate if that is the case.

And even if that were the case, couldn't it apply to DM as easily as it could apply to MS?

Also, I believe that the scenario about someone not knowing that a crime is going to happen and not participating but confessing afterwards to being an accessory after the fact does not automatically mean a first degree murder charge unless confinement was involved, or some other mitigating factor, if I remember correctly.

All my opinion only.

Although it's commonly believed that when a murder occurs during a kidnapping or confinement, the charge is first degree regardless of whether a person knew the death was going to occur, I'm not sure if that's actually true. The Criminal Code only says:

Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping

(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

As we've seen in the Billy Mason case, JL was there during the kidnapping at gunpoint and helped burn the body, but still his charge was reduced to accessory after the fact.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2268853-clairmont-we-burned-him-together-/

The thing about confessing is that one either confesses their part and takes their punishment, or they confess and plead guilty to a lesser charge. They don't just continue on to trial. As far as I've heard, both DM and MS are still attending the hearings and it would appear they are both still being tried together.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

It wouldnt make sense to me either

Here is what I was thinking .... it is convoluted , and I dont actually think it went this way ....

DM killed LB and MS was involved somehow and both are charged (typically that is how it works)

DM killed WM and only he was charged

DM killed TB and MS was involved and both are charged (again , typical)

Both (equally) face life in prison without parole .... but if MS confessed his part , supplied evidence to police that they might not otherwise have found on their own (regarding WM and LB for example) and was completely cooperative with police he may be trying to lever a smaller sentence .... lets say 20 years and possible parole

THE ONLY WAY police or prosecutors would even consider such a "deal" was if MS , and MS only , was able to provide them testimony and evidence in the LB and WM deaths.

And of course providing MS never pulled any actual triggers

<snip>

The only way MS could get a smaller sentence would be to deal for a lesser charge. The automatic sentence for both 1st and 2nd degree murder is life in prison. The only difference is the possibility of parole for 2nd degree after serving a period of 10 to 25 years depending on the sentence handed down.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/guide/secm.html

Why just take the chance that the jury might happen to find him guilty of a lesser charge if the original 1st degree charge is still on the table? If he were going to confess his part and his statement matched the evidence, why would he offer that confession without a deal to have the charge reduced from the outset and avoid the possibility of a life sentence?

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

That might make sense if it wasn't common for a dominant personality, a psychopath or a bully to routinely use the belongings of their submissive friends, normal people or victims, often against the person's wishes or best interests as well.

We have heard that DM was made fun of in school for being a little different (dog biscuits), and that he changed schools and had to be made to graduate, and those are all signs of being bullied. The only thing I remember hearing about MS in school was something about him selling cigarettes to underage school kids, and them having a negative impression of him.

Personally I would like to hear more actual evidence before I decide who I think the leader was, I don't think any of that is enough to decide. This is all just my opinion.

My submissive friends don't own guns and incinerators.

The dog biscuit thing...maybe DM just wanted to assert that he was a blue collar. I saw a guy at a BBQ this past week ask for a Milkbone to go with his beer...apparently they taste like Newfie hard tack biscuits used to make fish and brewis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_brewis and all the other blue collars there shrugged and said I've eaten them too.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It wouldnt make sense to me either

Here is what I was thinking .... it is convoluted , and I dont actually think it went this way ....

DM killed LB and MS was involved somehow and both are charged (typically that is how it works)

DM killed WM and only he was charged

DM killed TB and MS was involved and both are charged (again , typical)

Both (equally) face life in prison without parole .... but if MS confessed his part , supplied evidence to police that they might not otherwise have found on their own (regarding WM and LB for example) and was completely cooperative with police he may be trying to lever a smaller sentence .... lets say 20 years and possible parole

THE ONLY WAY police or prosecutors would even consider such a "deal" was if MS , and MS only , was able to provide them testimony and evidence in the LB and WM deaths.

And of course providing MS never pulled any actual triggers

I dont happen to believe that theory , but back of my mind I wonder how LE are able to go straight to trial on those other two deaths , after years of having nothing.

1st degree murder is 25 years to parole and they can't change that automatic sentence unless the charge is changed.

If they wanted a DI for LB's case I doubt that they are short on evidence.

 

[Alethea Dice]

MS with his girlfriend lived in WM's home. On the evening when police came to indentify a suicide, MS and girlfriend happened not to be at home. BUT who knows if DM thought of a suicide, MB and Ex also, police also - only MS perhaps knew it wasn't because he had shot? Certainly at times MS was an eyesore for Wayne and perhaps there was trouble before shooting? To whom the gun belonged isn't any evidence, I think. The gun was just available.

What if the illegal gun is the only evidence they have for WM's death? What if, as Arnie said, WM's death was just tossed into the mix to let a judge or jury decide? Maybe that's why they didn't ask for a direct indictment in WM's case. If that's the case, they would have some explaining to do IMO as to why they never investigated the weapon used in the first place before declaring it a suicide.

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

What if the illegal gun is the only evidence they have for WM's death? What if, as Arnie said, WM's death was just tossed into the mix to let a judge or jury decide? Maybe that's why they didn't ask for a direct indictment in WM's case. If that's the case, they would have some explaining to do IMO as to why they never investigated the weapon used in the first place before declaring it a suicide.

JMO

Do you really think they would have been able to indict DM if all they had was an illegal gun?

I think they charged DM because they had a valid case against him.

Just because the evidence hasn't leaked does not mean it does not exist.

Just because the case is not going to DI does not mean it's not strong.

 

[cansleuther]

As far as MS selling cigarettes to under aged students ten to thirteen years ago, obviously it wouldn't be impressive to some students, but to others who wanted cigarettes, MS was the go to guy with the smokes kids could buy a smoke or two for some pocket changes because they couldn't buy them in the store legally. MS was probably one out of many who sold cigarettes at school. Not really a big deal if you know what gets sold in schools nowadays...sadly. MOO.

MS wasn't selling cigarettes to high school students ten to thirteen years ago. Since the student's names cannot be printed because of the pubication ban covering LB's murder, it suggests that the cigarette sales occurred sometime around or after LB's disappearance in 2012.

Accused killer Mark Smich gave off a bad vibe while selling cigarettes to underage students at Oakville high schools, according to one of his former customers.

&#8220;There was something off, something strange about him,&#8221; said the young man, whose name cannot be printed due to a publication ban covering all evidence relating to the trial of Mark Smich and his co-accused, Dellen Millard, for the first degree murder of Laura Babcock.

Smich&#8217;s former customer told police, who questioned him on a number of occasions, that he didn&#8217;t know his former cigarette supplier well. &#8220;I was not afraid, but not 100 percent comfortable&#8221; around him, he said.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2014/05/there-was-something-off-about-alleged-murderer-mark-smich.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My submissive friends don't own guns and incinerators.

The dog biscuit thing...maybe DM just wanted to assert that he was a blue collar. I saw a guy at a BBQ this past week ask for a Milkbone to go with his beer...apparently they taste like Newfie hard tack biscuits used to make fish and brewis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_brewis and all the other blue collars there shrugged and said I've eaten them too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardtack
Alternative names

Hard tack, pilot bread, ship's biscuit, shipbiscuit, sea biscuit, cabin bread, sea bread, dog biscuit, tooth dullers, sheet iron, worm castles, molar breakers
Type Cracker or biscuit
Main ingredients Flour, water

Baked hard, it would stay intact for years if it was kept dry. - Maybe DM received a survival portion from grandpa (is also very cheap ).

 

[Juballee]

MS wasn't selling cigarettes to high school students ten to thirteen years ago. Since the student's names cannot be printed because of the pubication ban covering LB's murder, it suggests that the cigarette sales occurred sometime around or after LB's disappearance in 2012.



http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2014/05/there-was-something-off-about-alleged-murderer-mark-smich.html

Thanks for finding this.

It is odd that police would interview the student several times for a few loose cigarettes?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks for finding this.

It is odd that police would interview the student several times for a few loose cigarettes?

How does one make money selling cigarette singles? I didn't know this was a Trailer Park Boys operation.

I suggest if MS was in it for the money, he was selling packs and cartons and anything else that had a good rate of return (e.g., pot)

Thus LE's interest.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How does one make money selling cigarette singles? I didn't know this was a Trailer Park Boys operation.

I suggest if MS was in it for the money, he was selling packs and cartons and anything else that had a good rate of return (e.g., pot)

Thus LE's interest.

bbm

Mickle makes a muckle, as we say.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think relatives and acquaintances of WM/MB who were had certainly warned both parents of DM's inadequate friend MS at some time in 2012.

IMO Both DM and MS are black sheeps, only one is more black. Perhaps the one with less money?

 

[cansleuther]

I suggest if MS was in it for the money, he was selling packs and cartons and anything else that had a good rate of return (e.g., pot)

Thus LE's interest.

The article implies that LE were investigating LB's murder when they interviewed the student, not the sale of the illegal cigarettes. Why else would the student's name not be able to be published due to the publication ban covering LB's murder?

 

[Juballee]

How does one make money selling cigarette singles? I didn't know this was a Trailer Park Boys operation.

I suggest if MS was in it for the money, he was selling packs and cartons and anything else that had a good rate of return (e.g., pot)

Thus LE's interest.

How did he do it? Volume, that's my guess. The article said schools, plural, which means that he must have had a circuit of schools he visited to sell his cigarettes to underage kids. In my personal opinion, this makes it sound like he might possibly have been that creepy guy who hangs around high schools long after they have a right to be there.

If the students were really buying drugs off of him and not cigarettes, I can see a student trying to downplay it to cigarettes, and it may even be why LE would interview him repeatedly, to try to get him to admit it was drugs. While it is possible that LE or the author of the blog were the ones downplaying drugs to cigarettes, I personally don't think that it is as likely.

All just my personal opinion.

 

[cansleuther]

In my personal opinion, this makes it sound like he might possibly have been that creepy guy who hangs around high schools long after they have a right to be there.

At the time his girlfriend had only just recently graduated from high school herself.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well it seems MS and MWJ are guys that chose to make their livings in the black market economy...but what about DM? Wasn't he trending that way...after all, it may have been only one stolen Harley and one stolen trailer in the "chop shop" but it is a start.

Don't you think all these guys were in it together?

DM may have been new to the game, but surely he was a player.

 

[Kamille]

I think it's possible that MS may have "talked" long before his arrest and that it's not him directly that LE may be getting info from, especially regarding the LB and WM murders.

MWJ is still in jail I believe. I'd think it would also be in his best interest to tell LE what he may know or what he may have been told. I'd imagine finding out that MS was telling others things about events between him and DM, even before the TB murder, in discovery, might make DM "glare" at MS when they show up in court together.

MOO

 

[Juballee]

Well it seems MS and MWJ are guys that chose to make their livings in the black market economy...but what about DM? Wasn't he trending that way...after all, it may have been only one stolen Harley and one stolen trailer in the "chop shop" but it is a start.

Don't you think all these guys were in it together?

DM may have been new to the game, but surely he was a player.

Personally, I just don't see the surety that DM was into criminal activity. I see that MS and MWJ were, I have seen their criminal records, to me that is proof that they were into criminal activity, if not making their livings from the black market. I see no proof that DM was making money on the black market, he had a job as CEO as far as I know, and even if it was of a company that was liquidating or transitioning, it was still a job that he could be taxed for, making him a contributing member of society in my opinion.

I see no proof that he was 'trending' that way, personally, no matter how some may try to convince me how vile it was that he rescued that dog or that he may have used a shopping cart outside of the confines of a parking lot like a master criminal.

In my opinion, the whole chop shop story was blown up out of this one bike. As I recall it started out that day as hundreds of vehicles, and ended up being way less than 10, before the subject was never heard of again. I think that if there were any evidence that the Harley was actually stolen by DM, MS or even MWJ, we would have seen charges added in relation to it when the second wave of charges happened. There would be no reason for LE not to add another charge or two of theft over if they had evidence to back it up, it would serve to bolster their case. In my opinion there was still no motive for DM to steal a vehicle when he had so many, and anything that LE can do to cement a motive would go a long way towards convincing people like me otherwise, I bet.

All just my opinion only.

 

[Juballee]

I think it's possible that MS may have "talked" long before his arrest and that it's not him directly that LE may be getting info from, especially regarding the LB and WM murders.

MWJ is still in jail I believe. I'd think it would also be in his best interest to tell LE what he may know or what he may have been told. I'd imagine finding out that MS was telling others things about events between him and DM, even before the TB murder, in discovery, might make DM "glare" at MS when they show up in court together.

MOO

In my opinion there would be lots of reasons to glare at a co-defendant in court, especially if you were the innocent one and the other got you into all that mess.

But then again, if I recall correctly, the few articles stating that one glared at the other got the two defendants mixed up so that it was impossible to tell which journalist was correct as to who was who.

Personally, and maybe it's just the face and head tattoos that are shaping my opinions, but I think that MWJ is either a real gangster or enough of a wannabe that 'ratting' will not be an option. I believe that going to jail in gang culture is looked on with the same pride that going to college or university is for the rest of us. And it's also seen as a type of education necessary to advancing in gang career paths, in my opinion. I can't imagine urging him to talk to LE would be productive, nor can I imagine what MJW would think if he knew that Say10 was breaking the gangster code of silence, as implied above.

All my opinion only.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I just don't see the surety that DM was into criminal activity. I see that MS and MWJ were, I have seen their criminal records, to me that is proof that they were into criminal activity, if not making their livings from the black market. I see no proof that DM was making money on the black market, he had a job as CEO as far as I know, and even if it was of a company that was liquidating or transitioning, it was still a job that he could be taxed for, making him a contributing member of society in my opinion.

You're forgetting that DM has a criminal record that goes back to 2012 and includes three charges of first degree murder, as well as theft and kidnapping.

Killing your father to usurp the title of CEO from him is not really a contributing member of society thing, IMO.

I see no proof that he was 'trending' that way, personally, no matter how some may try to convince me how vile it was that he rescued that dog or that he may have used a shopping cart outside of the confines of a parking lot like a master criminal.

Then I'd like to remind you of DM's criminal record.

In my opinion, the whole chop shop story was blown up out of this one bike. As I recall it started out that day as hundreds of vehicles, and ended up being way less than 10, before the subject was never heard of again. I think that if there were any evidence that the Harley was actually stolen by DM, MS or even MWJ, we would have seen charges added in relation to it when the second wave of charges happened. There would be no reason for LE not to add another charge or two of theft over if they had evidence to back it up, it would serve to bolster their case. In my opinion there was still no motive for DM to steal a vehicle when he had so many, and anything that LE can do to cement a motive would go a long way towards convincing people like me otherwise, I bet.

All just my opinion only.

DM had a lot of vehicles but I doubt he wanted to take them all apart and grind the serial numbers off of them and sell them piece by piece. Processing a stolen vehicle is something to fill DM's time as he was not gainfully employed at the time the Harley was taken or found. A guy's gotta have hobbies. Just too bad they are on the right side of the line.