Remains found confirmed as Jacob Wetterling/Suspect led LE to Remains #1

[Sigrun]

The child who was abducted in January, 10 months prior to Jacob's abduction, was driven 10-15 minutes away and then assaulted. The child was able to describe much of the route.

The Jan child was not sitting in the front seat. He was instructed to put a stocking or something like that over his face and to lie down in the back seat. That is exactly what happened with Jacob. It worked, so the suspect was not going to change that part of the MO.

The child was told that there were child safety locks on the vehicle - as he lay in the back seat of the car.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Danny Heinrich Search Warrant July 2015.pdf

The context of my comment had to do with whether J.E.W. would likely flee his attacker, and related to that, whether J.E.W. knew of his attacker's intentions. Where did you learn that Jacob was told to put a stocking over his face and lie down in the back seat? What back seat? DR recalled seeing "him" in the front seat of a blue coupe - the same car DH drove at that time. But it doesn't matter. The point is that DH groped the boys in the crotch immediately ... so immediately that he groped one boy he didn't even abduct. So, it seems unlikely that after 30 minutes of sitting in the front seat of this car with this basket case that Jacob would not have known immediately what DH's intentions were.

Clarification: I think you're confusing two different cars. The M.O. you describe could not be carried out the same way with Jacob.

 

[JerseyJo]

Now that DR, obviously, is no longer a POI...I wonder how accurate his recollection of the vehicle turning around on his property the night of the abduction. I seem to recall him saying he observed a woman, or possibly a child sitting in the passenger seat. Did he see Jacob?

 

[otto]

Danny's nephew factors into this somehow. He was 17 years old and from reading the search warrant it seems that Danny had a photo that connected him to his nephew and friends of his nephew. Danny was living at his nephew's house at the time. Was Danny assaulting his nephew as well? Is that how the connection was made to Danny?

 

[Sigrun]

Now that DR, obviously, is no longer a POI...I wonder how accurate his recollection of the vehicle turning around on his property the night of the abduction. I seem to recall him saying he observed a woman, or possibly a child sitting in the passenger seat. Did he see Jacob?

Yes, that is what I was alluding to. DR saw a woman or child in the front seat. Also, that car didn't allow DH to put him in the back seat. Additionally, the door locks on the front doors did not work. Given DH's tendency to grope it wouldn't surprise me at all that Jacob lept as soon as the car slowed down.

 

[human]

This is a mind blower to me.Never heard this before. A woman walked past the site is,it ten mins before or after?

http://www.kare11.com/news/st-joseph-turns-to-faith-after-wetterling-discovery/313496227

 

[otto]

The context of my comment had to do with whether J.E.W. would likely flee his attacker, and related to that, whether J.E.W. knew of his attacker's intentions. Where did you learn that Jacob was told to put a stocking over his face and lie down in the back seat? What back seat? DR recalled seeing "him" in the front seat of a blue coupe - the same car DH drove at that time. But it doesn't matter. The point is that DH groped the boys in the crotch immediately ... so immediately that he groped one boy he didn't even abduct. So, it seems unlikely that after 30 minutes of sitting in the front seat of this car with this basket case that Jacob would not have known immediately what DH's intentions were.

Clarification: I think you're confusing two different cars. The M.O. you describe could not be carried out the same way with Jacob.

I'm sure that if an 11 year old child had a chance to escape from a heavy set man with a gun, that child would escape. However, I don't think that a child will have a chance to escape that situation. There are so many women who are unable to escape that situation, and it's far less likely that a child could escape.

During the earlier abductions, no weapon was produced. With the child before Jacob, a knife was produced and the suspect claimed to have a gun. With Jacob, a handgun was produced. With each attempted abduction, and abduction, Danny was learning how to get it right.

Regarding the MO, I have said that what happened to the child before Jacob very likely also happened to Jacob - the MO of the violent sexual predator.

In the search warrant, you can read exactly what happened to the child who was abducted 10 months earlier. When Jacob was abducted, one of the two other boys was groped.

An 11 year old child from a good family cannot know what is in the mind of an violent adult sexual predator. Jacob could not comprehend what was going to happen to him, but I'm sure that he was afraid. He was unable to escape.

Regarding cars, did Danny have a two-seater when he abducted Jacob? Some child abductors prefer hatchback because there are no backdoors. In the case prior to Jacob, the victim was told that there were child safety locks that prevented him from escaping. The 12 year old child prior to Jacob would have fled if he had a chance. How did he get away? Was he released, or did he escape?

 

[dexter75]

Now that DR, obviously, is no longer a POI...I wonder how accurate his recollection of the vehicle turning around on his property the night of the abduction. I seem to recall him saying he observed a woman, or possibly a child sitting in the passenger seat. Did he see Jacob?

I always believed he had...

 

[AmyPond]

The child who was abducted in January, 10 months prior to Jacob's abduction, was driven 10-15 minutes away and then assaulted. The child was able to describe much of the route.

The Jan child was not sitting in the front seat. He was instructed to put a stocking or something like that over his face and to lie down in the back seat. That is exactly what happened with Jacob. It worked, so the suspect was not going to change that part of the MO.

The child was told that there were child safety locks on the vehicle - as he lay in the back seat of the car.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Danny Heinrich Search Warrant July 2015.pdf

Not all earlier victims were sexually assaulted. Incident no. 6 has two children running away, Incident no. 7 the camper got away, Incident no. 8 the cyclist was knocked over while delivering papers and then the suspect ran away, Incident no. 9 the January victim was walking home when he was taken off the street into a running vehicle - he was driven 10-15 minutes away and assaulted. It's clear, escalating behavior of a sexual predator.

The part I put in bold above. Do you have a source for that or is that just speculation?

 

[Sigrun]

I'm sure that if an 11 year old child had a chance to escape from a heavy set man with a gun, that child would escape. However, I don't think that a child will have a chance to escape that situation. There are so many women who are unable to escape that situation, and it's far less likely that a child could escape.

During the earlier abductions, no weapon was produced. With the child before Jacob, a knife was produced and the suspect claimed to have a gun. With Jacob, a handgun was produced. With each attempted abduction, and abduction, Danny was learning how to get it right.

Regarding the MO, I have said that what happened to the child before Jacob very likely also happened to Jacob - the MO of the violent sexual predator.

In the search warrant, you can read exactly what happened to the child who was abducted 10 months earlier. When Jacob was abducted, one of the two other boys was groped.

An 11 year old child from a good family cannot know what is in the mind of an violent adult sexual predator. Jacob could not comprehend what was going to happen to him, but I'm sure that he was afraid. He was unable to escape.

Regarding cars, did Danny have a two-seater when he abducted Jacob? Some child abductors prefer hatchback because there are no backdoors. In the case prior to Jacob, the victim was told that there were child safety locks that prevented him from escaping. The 12 year old child prior to Jacob would have fled if he had a chance. How did he get away? Was he released, or did he escape?

Agreed, there are characteristic signs of escalation. It's hard to say how much difference there would be between an 11 year-old boy and a woman as far as their ability to escape. But circumstances dominate that discussion. If his hands are full driving, holding a gun and groping, and the door doesn't even lock ... well, I'm not convinced Jacob couldn't bolt. But you may be right.

 

[Typhoo1961]

How else would DH be in position to stop them at just the moment they were there

Driving towards them perhaps?

 

[otto]

The part I put in bold above. Do you have a source for that or is that just speculation?

The source I have provided in putting forth my opinion is the search warrant. In looking at the warrant, it is clear to me that the suspect was escalating in behavior. When sexual predators escalate in behavior, what they are doing is perfecting their skill in abduction, assault, and getting away with it. It's my opinion that if Danny learned that a weapon resulted in compliance, then he brought a bigger weapon. The mention of a gun worked with an earlier victim, the threat of "killing" without a weapon did not. With each attempted abduction, he got better at what he did.


Search Warrant:
http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Danny Heinrich Search Warrant July 2015.pdf

Investigators must have recognized a pattern in the numerous reports of attempted abduction of pre-adolescent male child, and successful abduction of a child. They must have known that it was just a matter of time - so much so that they have a clear documented history of similar assault and abduction of pre-adolescent males between 1987-1989 ... all documented in 1990.

So ... No Source, just an opinion based on looking for patterns.

 

[otto]

Agreed, there are characteristic signs of escalation. It's hard to say how much difference there would be between an 11 year-old boy and a woman as far as their ability to escape. But circumstances dominate that discussion. If his hands are full driving, holding a gun and groping, and the door doesn't even lock ... well, I'm not convinced Jacob couldn't bolt. But you may be right.

If Jacob had a chance to be alive today, he would be alive. He didn't have a chance against a seasoned hunter like Danny Heinrich.

 

[Sigrun]

Driving towards them perhaps?

This must come from way back in the thread. But if this is about the set up for the abduction, the boys rode up the road first, then came back. This means that DH could have seen them at just about any point in their trip to the store. All he needed to do was pick a spot on a section of road that was long ... so he knew they wouldn't leave that section before he could set up. And that section of road was very long (without intersections of any kind).

 

[otto]

Agreed, there are characteristic signs of escalation. It's hard to say how much difference there would be between an 11 year-old boy and a woman as far as their ability to escape. But circumstances dominate that discussion. If his hands are full driving, holding a gun and groping, and the door doesn't even lock ... well, I'm not convinced Jacob couldn't bolt. But you may be right.

Read about Dru Sjodin. She was in one of the Dakotas, talking to her boyfriend on the phone, walking through the parking lot to her car when a stocky man came up to her ... the knife sheath was lying in the parking lot, her car was gone, she bled in the car, her phone was traced to a cold rural field, and her body was found. She was a very capable young woman who could not escape. Hannah Graham, Morgan Harrington, others ... all very capable young women ... none of whom were able to escape.

 

[JerseyJo]

Agreed, there are characteristic signs of escalation. It's hard to say how much difference there would be between an 11 year-old boy and a woman as far as their ability to escape. But circumstances dominate that discussion. If his hands are full driving, holding a gun and groping, and the door doesn't even lock ... well, I'm not convinced Jacob couldn't bolt. But you may be right.

On the assumption that DH was responsible for all the Paynesville attacks, in addition to JS and JEW, it certainly seems that DH was getting more brazen in his attacks. I have not read anything so far in his history, or with regard to any of the items that the FBI found at his residence to suggest that he was a serial murderer. From most of the articles and studies I have read, sex offenders do not frequently commit murder, nor do they commit homicide at higher rates than other types of offenders.

 

[human]

This must come from way back in the thread. But if this is about the set up for the abduction, the boys rode up the road first, then came back. This means that DH could have seen them at just about any point in their trip to the store. All he needed to do was pick a spot on a section of road that was long ... so he knew they wouldn't leave that section before he could set up. And that section of road was very long (without intersections of any kind).

It was long, but if you recall, the rest of the street had houses. Not super close. Like a suburban street.

 

[human]

On the assumption that DH was responsible for all the Paynesville attacks, in addition to JS and JEW, it certainly seems that DH was getting more brazen in his attacks. I have not read anything so far in his history, or with regard to any of the items that the FBI found at his residence to suggest that he was a serial murderer. From most of the articles and studies I have read, sex offenders do not frequently commit murder, nor do they commit homicide at higher rates than other types of offenders.

There are the sadistic ones who enjoy the killing. He does not appear to be that kind.

 

[otto]

This must come from way back in the thread. But if this is about the set up for the abduction, the boys rode up the road first, then came back. This means that DH could have seen them at just about any point in their trip to the store. All he needed to do was pick a spot on a section of road that was long ... so he knew they wouldn't leave that section before he could set up. And that section of road was very long (without intersections of any kind).

Sierah Joughin was recently grabbed while riding her bike on a rural road. No one really knows how he (James Worley) got Sierah back to his barn, but he did ... perhaps with his motorcycle. She regularly cycled the route and, in that case as well, Worley, the sexual predator, could have leaped out of the corn field and tackled her ... just like Danny Heinrich's attack of the newspaper delivery boy.

It makes sense that he saw them leave, knew they would return, and waited for them by the side of the ditch.

 

[Rocco]

Read about Dru Sjodin. She was in one of the Dakotas, talking to her boyfriend on the phone, walking through the parking lot to her car when a stocky man came up to her ... the knife sheath was lying in the parking lot, her car was gone, she bled in the car, her phone was traced to a cold rural field, and her body was found. She was a very capable young woman who could not escape. Hannah Graham, Morgan Harrington, others ... all very capable young women ... none of whom were able to escape.

Dru's phone was found by her body when she was found by searchers in the spring. It was never traced to a field. Not sure what you mean by 'her car was gone'. Her car was towed the next morning from the Mall parking lot.

 

[otto]

There are the sadistic ones who enjoy the killing. He does not appear to be that kind.

We don't know that. With Morgan Harrington, it appears that she walked to the rural location where she was murdered, but she had broken ribs among other injuries.
When the autopsy report is released, we will know whether he is sadistic. From the search warrant, I wouldn't rule out sadism.