Reports of Physical Abuse of Zahra by Elisa

[Hickory Born]

I don't believe AY's statement that Zahra loved her like her own mother. Do these people know what love is? I think Zahra feared her, just like EB's biological children do.

 

[LCoastMom]

LCoastMom--

..AY said that he "hoped" that she had run away.

..why on earth would anyone 'hope' a child had run away from home?? to get away from what??

..and why would he have this 'hope', in october, when he hadn't even been around EB/AB since february? and had NEVER beeen to the hickory house (that EB/AB/Z had lived in since late august ??)

..if you see a child being abused and make a report, it just makes sense that you'd follow up to see some action taken.
..(do they follow up with the caller on action taken?)

..as late as oct.8th, the day before she 'went murdered' AY wrote a caption on a (january) pic he had: (thanks Mrs.G. for the pic/captions).


” look at zahra she looks stoned lol, I miss bein around her she is so sweet and polite, she deserves a hell of a better life!! Wish they would just sign her over to us lol”


..in october, he's STILL thinking she has a bad life??

..is there no way to follow up and see what's being done between a call to DSS (and LE and the SBI) in february----until 8 months later??

..i DO believe he made the call in feb.--(for himself)----i don't believe it had anything to do with zahra unfortunately, or he would have stuck with it and made sure something was done........for her. IMO.

Lauriej, my very limited experience with CPS involved my DD at age 6 and another child who was 8 - going on 9. While spending the weekend with her father, my DD and another child engaged in some - you show me yours and I'll show you mine type play that went beyond curious - the boy had way too much knowledge of what I consider to be adult behavior.

When I called CPS I was very upset by what the boy knew and how he came by the information. A few weeks later the social worker called to let me know there was an investigation and the boy was getting help. She didn't give me any specifics and honestly, I had no idea I would be getting that call. I am thinking if CPS, LE or SBI had taken AY seriously, he should have received a similar phone call! After all he called or wrote to 3 separate entities regarding child abuse! Someone should have followed up on his complaints, but it sure doesn't sound like that happened; does it?

JM: Um, do you believe when the police say, or the search warrants indicate, that, umm, Elisa and Adam, or Elisa or Adam, were hiding Zahra from the public? From the outside world? Umm, that the people in Hickory, in that community, never saw Zahra. The people in the home before that never saw Zahra, and that they were, just basically, keeping her confined? Do you, would you, believe that?

AY: Ahh (pause, deep breath), kind of, yeah. I know, the times that I seen 'em out, out and about, ah, most of the time they didn't have Zahra with 'em. Yanno, I'd always ask, "Where's Zahra?" And, yanno, they'd be like, "Well, she's at home." So I guess she was there by herself.

So he guesses she was there by herself?

“I thought she ran away because of all the emotional abuse and stuff, that was my hopes anyway. I hoped she ran away,” he said.

I suppose if one knows that a child is being tormented by a heartless POC - running away is a good alternative. Just not the one I would wish on a ten year old.

 

[Aedrys]

AY said EF was fully capable of pulling this crime off - he didn't see Zahra physically abused but was fully aware of severe (my interpretation) emotional abuse - being left in her room most of the time, given a time limit on coming out of her room to eat, EF being jealous of the love and attention Zahra received.

AY saw bruises, but Zahra covered for EF - I had the feeling (originally) that most people did not believe the stories of where the bruises came from, that most people were aware that EF was abusive. Heaven knows there were enough calls to CPS / DCFS when EF's children were young (and they were very young when AY moved in).

AY also said he thought Zahra had run away from home, due to the abuse. She was 10 years old!! Where would a ten year old, with no other family in the whole dang country run to???

This makes me so VERY ANGRY! :furious: :furious: And also very, very sad.

Due to hearing loss I am dependent on watching for emotions to help follow a conversation - having read FaerieB's wonderful transcripts, AY's visible clues did not match his words well at all - I feel the interview was very stressful for him, but watching his expressions, he could have been talking about the weather. Having read some very emotional comments he has written on the net, I was very surprised by his (almost) flat affect.

Do we know which act came first; AY writing a letter / notifying LE of the abuse or EF calling AY's doctor, getting his Rx's cut off? The comments that EF put out on her FB / MS pages during the time (people needing to mind their business etc) could go either way.

ITA. And besides her age, just how far was she was supposed to run without her prosthesis? She couldn't have run without it, and even with it, it's been said it was too small and hurt her. I don't know what AY was thinking when he said that. It's like he doesn't know Zahra very well at all. How can he forget about her prosthetic leg and think she's capable of running away? Poor Zahra was just doomed...

 

[tlcya]

I totally get the sentiment and I am sort of in agreement. I do not feel it is impossible for a plucky kid with a prosthetic to runaway. Remember, the prosethetic was missing along with Z so it could be assumed that if she ran away she did so wearing it.

What I find so unusual about this statement of AY's is that he could really entertain the idea seriously for even a moment that a child her age, in a country where she does not know anyone but those she met through EB and AB and at a school she has been moved away from, living in a new neighborhood, spending her days locked in her room with no socializing, ran off. Ran off to where? To whom? Where on earth was the little girl to turn if she HAD run off??

This is where that whole "I hoped she had just run off" thing makes no sense to me. Who/where did he imagine she had run off to??

 

[raisincharlie]

Why would she run off without her hearing aides ? In the video she seems very pleased to be able to hear better. Perhaps they weren't working any longer.

I'm just not buying this run off story.

 

[LCoastMom]

Why would she run off without her hearing aides ? In the video she seems very pleased to be able to hear better. Perhaps they weren't working any longer.

I'm just not buying this run off story.

I would be shocked if anyone bought into it - she was ten, almost eleven years old. <EB> wouldn't get her a bicycle, she was too young to buy her own bus ticket, I doubt if she had access to her own passport, any money or her own computer. A ten or eleven year old, off to their own devices does not sound like a good plan to me.

Where would she go? Was there a circus in town she could have joined? Maybe AY just does that magical thinking like the Anthony's who believed Caylee was living the life in NY City, IDK.

 

[wenwe4]

LCoastMom--

..AY said that he "hoped" that she had run away.

..why on earth would anyone 'hope' a child had run away from home?? to get away from what??

..and why would he have this 'hope', in october, when he hadn't even been around EB/AB since february? and had NEVER beeen to the hickory house (that EB/AB/Z had lived in since late august ??)

..if you see a child being abused and make a report, it just makes sense that you'd follow up to see some action taken.
..(do they follow up with the caller on action taken?)

..as late as oct.8th, the day before she 'went murdered' AY wrote a caption on a (january) pic he had: (thanks Mrs.G. for the pic/captions).


” look at zahra she looks stoned lol, I miss bein around her she is so sweet and polite, she deserves a hell of a better life!! Wish they would just sign her over to us lol”


..in october, he's STILL thinking she has a bad life??

..is there no way to follow up and see what's being done between a call to DSS (and LE and the SBI) in february----until 8 months later??

..i DO believe he made the call in feb.--(for himself)----i don't believe it had anything to do with zahra unfortunately, or he would have stuck with it and made sure something was done........for her. IMO.

I missed this pic and comment (thanks to Mrs. G). Do you have a link? I am quite interested - I don't know how I missed this. TIA!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hi sorry, we can't really link it because the page has since gone private.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

If the page is private now, it cannot be discussed.

 

[FaerieB]

I don't believe AY's statement that Zahra loved her like her own mother. Do these people know what love is? I think Zahra feared her, just like EB's biological children do.

Unfortunately, it's quite common for an abused child to favour the abuser over the other parent. Almost like, "If I love them enough, they'll stop abusing me."

Haven't read all posts yet, so please accept my apologies if this has already been mentioned.

 

[Aedrys]

ITA. And besides her age, just how far was she was supposed to run without her prosthesis? She couldn't have run without it, and even with it, it's been said it was too small and hurt her. I don't know what AY was thinking when he said that. It's like he doesn't know Zahra very well at all. How can he forget about her prosthetic leg and think she's capable of running away? Poor Zahra was just doomed...

Quoting myself because I messed up here. It was the hearing aids that got found in her room, not her prosthesis. Still, like everyone else has said, where would she go? Who would she run to? And if EB was punishing her by making go up and down on a hill with a prosthesis that was too small and hurt her, I don't think she would think about running away. It's more likely that she was hoping to be saved or that the abuse would just stop and EB would really love her, poor thing.

Yes, AY called DPS, but he didn't follow up. I realize that people probably thought DPS would take care of this, but when it comes to child abuse, people have to be persistent. I used to work for DHS in Oklahoma, putting calls to make reports through to our Hotline, and there are so many calls about abuse to children that one call about one kid can get lost or not be taken as seriously as it should even though all have to be investigated. But if there's more than one call on one particular kid, that's going to get a lot more attention. One call is not going to do it, unfortunately. I guess that initial call was enough to satisfy his conscience, and it shouldn't have. DPS dropped the ball, but people themselves have to be more vigilant and persistent about reporting abuse too.

 

[FaerieB]

This is where that whole "I hoped she had just run off" thing makes no sense to me. Who/where did he imagine she had run off to??

Let me preface this by saying that when the first speculation of abuse was brought out, the optimistic part of me hoped she had found some way to escape. Obviously I didn't hold out hope for long.

I totally agree with what you're saying in regards to AY's hope she'd run off. I can believe he may have hoped that for the first hour or so, but after that some semblance of rational thought should have kicked in. And after a couple of hours if she hadn't turned up at the police station, a hospital, her step-sisters or her "uncle" Aaron's, the idea should have been ephemeral. She knew NO one; EB/AB (by Aaron's admissions) kept her isolated. Where would she have gone?? Who could she have called for help?

I know KB is a bone of contention with some people, but I truly believe Zahra was happy with her and knew love in that home. Zahra was eight when she left Aus. The possibility of her being able to contact KB on her own, if they were still in Aus is quite strong, IMO. However, I don't know any ten year old child who would know how to make an international call on their own.

That poor child never stood a chance. And no one, no matter how vociferously they've tried to claim otherwise, even tried. It evokes so many emotions in me that I'm very grateful that I'm a long way from Catawba County, North Carolina. :furious:

Sorry for the rant...I know I'm preaching to the choir.

 

[tlcya]

sokay FaerieB, I know my post was ust a jumping off point for the rant as we share similar views on this case in many things. No need for apologies. You've said nothing that I haven't said on these threads as well.

 

[DLT88]

I would be shocked if anyone bought into it - she was ten, almost eleven years old. <EB> wouldn't get her a bicycle, she was too young to buy her own bus ticket, I doubt if she had access to her own passport, any money or her own computer. A ten or eleven year old, off to their own devices does not sound like a good plan to me.

Where would she go? Was there a circus in town she could have joined? Maybe AY just does that magical thinking like the Anthony's who believed Caylee was living the life in NY City, IDK.

I don't know but when I think back to being that age and wanting to run away because I was upset, I thought of running away to the woods (which were nearby) and living there so no one would find me. So when I read that he said that, I was thinking that maybe he was thinking she just left the house and is hiding somewhere.

 

[westsidefox64]

When I read this in the transcripts my first reaction was DUH!!! I dont think it was big secret that she was abused...HE77 I dont think it was a little secret. I just dont understand why it wasnt stopped! JMO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I find AY's response to the question of whether or not he remains in touch with AB to be curious.

JMO

 

[TorisMom003]

Personally I feel that AY and the others that were involved in Zahra's life are in CYA mode. Noone helped this child and many had the chance to do so. I also believe very little that comes out of AY's mouth.

 

[LCoastMom]

I don't know but when I think back to being that age and wanting to run away because I was upset, I thought of running away to the woods (which were nearby) and living there so no one would find me. So when I read that he said that, I was thinking that maybe he was thinking she just left the house and is hiding somewhere.

Please don't take this as criticism, I don't mean it to be - when you were 10 or 11 - you thought like a child and acted like a child because you were a child. You could easily imagine running away, hiding from your monsters in the woods. But AY is a 30 something year old man, he must know running away to anywhere (to hide from her monsters - whatever they were) was not realistic.

A child hiding in the woods is not a safe child. If he believed "the woods" were safer than her home, then he should have done something about it (beyond writing a letter or making a phone call, with no follow up)! Everyone who thought something was wrong - said; "we knew this was coming", or "we are not surprised to hear this", bares some responsibility for the torture this child endured. Where was Zahra's "village" when she needed them?

 

[netsleuther]

If blood relatives didnt witness abuse then why would EB's own daughter say she would have to leave if her mother got out of jail? Obviously they are scared of her for some reason! This attitude from some of the family is probably exactly why this abuse wasn't stopped before poor Zahra was murdered! What more evidence of abuse do you need than a dismembered child and your sister being the one who knew where she was scattered???:furious:

BBM
Do you refer to "your sister" as being EB? We seem to have two AF's now and I almost become confused with this reference.

Could AF ever think her mother would do it to her? hmm could it have almost happened before but to AF?

Looking back on the court video (to reduce EB's bond) where AF (EB's daughter) looked very upset more so than anyone else that's been seen on camera. It really looked like her only fear was her mother who was sitting in jail.

It sort of made me feel that AF has no fears of any accomplice who is not in jail while her mother is still in jail and she was safe.

I do believe AB is responsible, but I entertain the possibility of Another female accomp. besides Elisa. One we would never suspect!

This quote is from the Could EB and accomplices be responsible for death/coverup - without AB's knowledge? thread...I couldn't find an earlier reference to the possibility of Another female accomp. and I thought this comment might be relevant in regards to whether AF would have to leave the state. I thought witness instead of accomp though.

I had wondered when I first read this comment if it could have been someone close to EB other than a male who she could confide in. But drivinmebonkers is entertaining a person we would never suspect and really the only female I thought that seemed disturbed more than any other we have seen on camera besides BB could be a blood relative of EB and my thoughts were EB's daughters as they would know EB more than most. But it was only AF who felt very unsafe.

If AF knows a lot more I could only hope LE find out what she does know that makes her fearful enough that if/when her mother is released from Jail that AF will need to leave the state.

IMO thread title and OP should read immediate family or blood relatives instead of blood family

 

[NcMomma]

BBM
Do you refer to "your sister" as being EB? We seem to have two AF's now and I almost become confused with this reference.

Yes....I was referring to EB as the sister in response to this interview on NG

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qa0Bkvs_Sc&list=SL[/ame]