Rescue at sea for sick baby

[Linda7NJ]

BBM: You have pretty much summed it up IMO. I have no problem with teaching your children to experience all life has to offer but these two "parents" were out there for themselves. Anyone who doesn't know to keep feces out of the kitchen doesn't have the sense it takes to pour pee out of a boot, IMO. I agree, if this woman couldn't keep her cookies down while sailing she definitely wasn't a sailor.



My husband and I had a sailboat and sailed often, however, when children were on board we sailed just off shore and each child had a life vest on and a life line attached while on deck. Yeah, I know I was probably way too cautious but that is just me.



That boat was way too light and not an ocean ready vessel. Total irresponsible and I think endangering the children.

I hated that ugly, uncomfortable life vest my parents made me wear!


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[basilcat]

I simply am blown away that the "cruising community" at large has made this family thier poster child. They do not seem to understand why people are upset. It has nothing to do with their choice of lifestyle- it has to do with common sense, imo.

I know..right?

I personally think they're all a little whacked!:floorlaugh:

Seriously though, the actions of these parents is reprehensible...
Poor little girls being pawns in their parent's self serving and ultimately negligent actions... Reading the blog I just constantly kept thinking, incredulously, WTF?
Seriously...who would willingly submit their children to such an existence and brag about it publicly at the same time....grrr...:banghead:

...and don't even get me started about the "secret" cake....:bigfight::bigfight:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I know..right?



I personally think they're all a little whacked!:floorlaugh:



Seriously though, the actions of these parents is reprehensible...

Poor little girls being pawns in their parent's self serving and ultimately negligent actions... Reading the blog I just constantly kept thinking, incredulously, WTF?

Seriously...who would willingly submit their children to such an existence and brag about it publicly at the same time....grrr...:banghead:



...and don't even get me started about the "secret" cake....:bigfight::bigfight:

Chuckling, wondering how many in the cruising community would hand their babies over to this couple...when they embark on their next voyage?


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[Lilibet]

Great list, Morag. I will add a couple of things to it...

1) In photos of the kids on the deck, I didn't always see them in life jackets. To me that would be a must even docked in a marina or walking along the dock next to their boat.

2) In January, Charlotte blogged about her fathers sexual abuse of her, in support of her sister who wanted to prosecute him for her own abuse. She started a social media campaign against him because she thought the statute of limitations had run out (it probably hasn't). She was then surprised and hurt that one of her brothers and a sister sided with the father. I'm sorry, but if you are going to go public with a bombshell like this, you need to seek counseling about the process. This is intense stuff to be dealing with two months before leaving on the trip.

It's sadly ironic that the blowback on social media about their aborted trip is way bigger than what she tried to stir up against her father. In no way am I excusing his actions, and I'm inclined to believe her. But she used social media instead of the legal system to deal with him. Not OK IMO.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlo...tered-unprosecuted-sex-offender-please-h.html

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/2/3/cracking-me-open.html

What people think is OK to do says a lot about their character. On her husband Eric's blog, he writes rather proudly about not paying income taxes for years and what it enabled him to do with the money. Supposedly, just as he was about to call the IRS and turn himself in, they caught up with him.

http://www.therebelheart.com/blog/2007/5/24/the-irs-totally-sucks-but-its-worth-every-penny.html

I don't believe the Kaufmans are horrible people who need to have their kids removed. I know they've been through major trauma with this whole event, including losing their home and possessions, and almost their lives. I feel for them as fellow human beings. What they did rises nowhere near the level of evil that Kate Parker did to her kids (not that the contrast relieves them of guilt...just putting it in perspective).
OR - Mother of 8 arrested for "medical child abuse" - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


BUT, I have a lot of trouble having much empathy for people who display the arrogance they have, who feel that they are above the law, and who feel superior because they are "living their dream" without common sense. That arrogance is what got them into this mess. I truly hope they are capable of the self-reflection needed to see that, so that they can have responsible adventures with their beautiful little girls.

 

[Frigga]

Anyone have a link to her blog?

 

[Lilibet]

Anyone have a link to her blog?

Here's the link. You can get to both of their blogs from here.

http://www.therebelheart.com

 

[Linda7NJ]

Great list, Morag. I will add a couple of things to it...

1) In photos of the kids on the deck, I didn't always see them in life jackets. To me that would be a must even docked in a marina or walking along the dock next to their boat.

2) In January, Charlotte blogged about her fathers sexual abuse of her, in support of her sister who wanted to prosecute him for her own abuse. She started a social media campaign against him because she thought the statute of limitations had run out (it probably hasn't). She was then surprised and hurt that one of her brothers and a sister sided with the father. I'm sorry, but if you are going to go public with a bombshell like this, you need to seek counseling about the process. This is intense stuff to be dealing with two months before leaving on the trip.

It's sadly ironic that the blowback on social media about their aborted trip is way bigger than what she tried to stir up against her father. In no way am I excusing his actions, and I'm inclined to believe her. But she used social media instead of the legal system to deal with him. Not OK IMO.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlo...tered-unprosecuted-sex-offender-please-h.html

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/2/3/cracking-me-open.html

What people think is OK to do says a lot about their character. On her husband Eric's blog, he writes rather proudly about not paying income taxes for years and what it enabled him to do with the money. Supposedly, just as he was about to call the IRS and turn himself in, they caught up with him.

http://www.therebelheart.com/blog/2007/5/24/the-irs-totally-sucks-but-its-worth-every-penny.html

I don't believe the Kaufmans are horrible people who need to have their kids removed. I know they've been through major trauma with this whole event, including losing their home and possessions, and almost their lives. I feel for them as fellow human beings. What they did rises nowhere near the level of evil that Kate Parker did to her kids (not that the contrast relieves them of guilt...just putting it in perspective).
OR - Mother of 8 arrested for "medical child abuse" - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


BUT, I have a lot of trouble having much empathy for people who display the arrogance they have, who feel that they are above the law, and who feel superior because they are "living their dream" without common sense. That arrogance is what got them into this mess. I truly hope they are capable of the self-reflection needed to see that, so that they can have responsible adventures with their beautiful little girls.

I don't think I've ever said this before. I don't believe her. Not a single word of it.
One thing I know about narcissists, ( I believe she is a raging one who found her matching soul mate) They launch a campaign to ruin who dare say no to them or call them out for their crap.

All IMO


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[Lilibet]

I don't think I've ever said this before. I don't believe her. Not a single word of it.
One thing I know about narcissists, ( I believe she is a raging one who found her matching soul mate) They launch a campaign to ruin who dare say no to them or call them out for their crap.

All IMO


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That crossed my mind too, Linda. You may very well be right. But when it comes to sexual abuse, I will err on the side of belief, unless there is good evidence to the contrary, as there is with Kate Parker's claims on that topic. Even narcissists can be abused.

But I strongly disagree with the way she has used other people on social media to go after him, without thoroughly pursuing legal channels first. Even if you believe there are children at risk because of his activities, as she does, that is not the way to handle it. Even pedophiles have legal rights. IMO That, to me, is what tells me a lot about the kind of person she is. It also says a lot about the people who joined her campaign without even knowing her and piled on her father with no real evidence. JMO, MOO.

But I guess I'm straying OT.

 

[LinasK]

I am all for adventure. My girls and I go sailing in fact. They even do the trapeze on the side of the sailboat. :scared:
(I HATE the water with a fiery passion but do it because my kids love it.)

We go snowmobiling, sledding, sailing, boating, camping, hiking, horseback riding... we don't just sit in our house all day.
However, we are OVER prepared for emergencies and can basically handle them ourselves.
We take more precautions than these fools when we go sailing on the LAKE or go snowmobiling 2 hours from home.



Last night my girls and I made a Cherry Pie. The 4 adults each had a piece and so did each child.
I looked at the rest of the pie last night... and saved it for my girls this morning. :twocents:

Yeah, couldn't she have made more cake??? How selfish of her, that's what she's teaching her daughter, and that lying is okay to please yourself.:banghead:

 

[Frigga]

Got it Lilibet- Thanks!

 

[gitana1]

Okay, let's assume that their planning and preparation was adequate, and that it was theoretically possible for them to have made this long journey safely in their small boat, but:

The mother didn't know how to sail in case the father was incapacitated.

They were all hungry at least part of the time.

They didn't know better than to contaminate their food prep area with fecal matter (and since the baby and mother had both had salmonella pre-voyage, they seemingly didn't take proper precautions when not at sea). It's difficult to stay clean on a boat, even when docked.

The mother had been suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts two months before departure.

They apparently have no money. How were they to provide for themselves when they reached their destination? A financial services industry professional who seemed to be semi-retired should have had some reserve cash so they didn't have to pass the hat when they washed up back in San Diego.

They hadn't worked out how to keep the baby from being flung around the cabin while she tried to sleep.

Neither child could swim.

Apparently more than one person had told them their trip was ill-advised, including the mother's brother and other more experienced sailors.

They were giving Bonine to children who were not old enough to take it.

They had no shade feature for the outside deck.

They had only spent 4 days at sea before embarking on their big voyage, and at least two of "the crew" had suffered from seasickness.

There was no possibility that the baby would have any memories, fond or otherwise, of her great adventure.

No doubt I've missed something, but can anyone point out anything that indicates that this voyage was other than dangerous. selfish, and irresponsible on the part of the captain and his first mate?

I 100% agree. All of the above is the problem with this incident and proves that these people willfully and knowingly endangered and neglected their children.

I am all for adventure. My girls and I go sailing in fact. They even do the trapeze on the side of the sailboat. :scared:
(I HATE the water with a fiery passion but do it because my kids love it.)

We go snowmobiling, sledding, sailing, boating, camping, hiking, horseback riding... we don't just sit in our house all day.
However, we are OVER prepared for emergencies and can basically handle them ourselves.
We take more precautions than these fools when we go sailing on the LAKE or go snowmobiling 2 hours from home.



Last night my girls and I made a Cherry Pie. The 4 adults each had a piece and so did each child.
I looked at the rest of the pie last night... and saved it for my girls this morning. :twocents:

That last bit about the pie- that's a mother. That's a REAL mother. Teared me up comparing your love to a woman who would deprive an already limited and stifled 3 year old of a rare treat.

My parents loved to sail. They had a 36 foot sail boat while I was very small and a larger one after right up until my dad died several years ago.

Never once did they ever sail with me out in the middle of the ocean! In the bay or hugging the coastline was about it.

There was a lot of talk once about sailing to Florida from New Jersey. My mom wanted to, my dad didn't fearing for her safety if something were to happen to him. They never made the trip because my dad had sense enough to foresee the dangers.

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I have heard that hugging the coastline is super dangerous. Out in the open ocean is where it's safe!! <modsnip>

Apparently in the days when sailing was the only feasible mode of travel on the ocean, no ships sailed close to coastline. Too many obstacles, crazy currents, dangerous reefs, etc.

Gitana1, #104 I get what you're saying about fear and a nanny mentality from the public. I also agree about pioneers and the people that live a nomadic life style that may threaten their children's lives. Imo when the navy, coast guard, police or any agency that's funded by tax dollars swoops in to save them, these people have bought the public's opinion. You are correct there will always be people willing to take a chance, but don't get upset when the general public is outraged. Now there's fund raising for them. Children aside, I wouldn't give them the time of day. Moo

ciao

I don't disagree with a word you've said. I really hope they aren't rewarded or wha they've done. I would like see criminal charges and CPS getting involved to some degree. The kids need help.

 

[MsFacetious]

Yeah, couldn't she have made more cake??? How selfish of her, that's what she's teaching her daughter, and that lying is okay to please yourself.:banghead:

I admit there was one night before I was on such a healthy diet...

I made a pan of chocolate brownies as the kids were going to bed that night.
I told them that they could have some in the morning.
Then I ate the whole pan. They were just too good! :thud:

So I ran to the store and stayed up another 2 hours to make them another pan...
They never knew I ate the whole pan the first time around. :floorlaugh:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I 100% agree. All of the above is the problem with this incident and proves that these people willfully and knowingly endangered and neglected their children.



That last bit about the pie- that's a mother. That's a REAL mother. Teared me up comparing your love to a woman who would deprive an already limited and stifled 3 year old of a rare treat.



I have heard that hugging the coastline is super dangerous. Out in the open ocean is where it's safe!! http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/is-the-coast-or-the-ocean-more-dangerous-76035.html

Apparently in the days when sailing was the only feasible mode of travel on the ocean, no ships sailed close to coastline. Too many obstacles, crazy currents, dangerous reefs, etc.



I don't disagree with a word you've said. I really hope they aren't rewarded or wha they've done. I would like see criminal charges and CPS getting involved to some degree. The kids need help.

I kinda exaggerated. My jaunts with them were typically right off the bay in Cape May.

Day excursions.

I never enjoyed sailing. I'd go to be with my family. It was never something I looked forward to and when I got older ...I stopped completely.
My son on the other hand, loved it. still does. As long as he can fish. He's a weirdo.

Only slept overnight when it was docked


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[CHERIE.T]

I admit there was one night before I was on such a healthy diet...

I made a pan of chocolate brownies as the kids were going to bed that night.
I told them that they could have some in the morning.
Then I ate the whole pan. They were just too good! :thud:

So I ran to the store and stayed up another 2 hours to make them another pan...
They never knew I ate the whole pan the first time around. :floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh: bahahahaha
Now he that's a good mom! :seeya:

 

[LambChop]

What I do not understand is, they were together for 7 years so why didn't they take this trip prior to having children. Once you have children you are pretty much ready to settle down. Children are a lot of work and a baby in diapers, double that work. If the only resources on the boat was the galley sink to do diapers, I'd say they were not prepared. jmo

 

[Deborah1012]

The mother has some deep, serious childhood issues with her father whom she accuses of sexually and mentally abusing her.
http://www.therebelheart.com/charlo...tered-unprosecuted-sex-offender-please-h.html

 

[JerseyGirl]

Navy sailors say conditions during the rescue were so bad that even the para-jumpers who dropped into the sea to help grew seasick as 5- to 8-foot waves crashed into the boat. The family's broken sailboat had enough fuel for about 11 hours of sailing, but it kept taking on water because of the crashing waves.

<modsnip>

Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2014/apr/09/familys-sailing-trip-with-baby-spurs-debate/#ixzz2yRiTmoQl

 

[JerseyGirl]

Just a few hours after arriving at NAS North Island Wednesday, Eric Kaufman tweeted a response to NBC 7 military reporter Bridget Naso:

Bridget Naso @BridgetNaso
@CaptEricKaufman - Covering military for @nbcsandiego. Any words for the crew of the USS Vandegrift and rescuers?

Eric Kaufman @CaptEricKaufman
@BridgetNaso the men and women of the VANDEGRIFT are heroes, and words can't express my appreciation for the 129. The best of the best.
3:06 PM - 9 Apr 2014

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...scuers-Heroes-Best-of-the-Best-254628151.html

 

[HMSHood]

I 100% agree. All of the above is the problem with this incident and proves that these people willfully and knowingly endangered and neglected their children.



That last bit about the pie- that's a mother. That's a REAL mother. Teared me up comparing your love to a woman who would deprive an already limited and stifled 3 year old of a rare treat.



I have heard that hugging the coastline is super dangerous. Out in the open ocean is where it's safe!! <modsnip>

Apparently in the days when sailing was the only feasible mode of travel on the ocean, no ships sailed close to coastline. Too many obstacles, crazy currents, dangerous reefs, etc.



I don't disagree with a word you've said. I really hope they aren't rewarded or wha they've done. I would like see criminal charges and CPS getting involved to some degree. The kids need help.

When it is shallow near the coast, the energy has to go somewhere, so the waves get larger. One reason why tsunamis or storm surge. Storm surge is higher with shallower water and larger sized hurricane regardless of strength.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/surge/

The open ocean is calmer for the most part. Now, if one went to Roaring Forties or further south towards Antarctica in the Southern Hemisphere, it is rough seas.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Lieutenant Colonel Nando Polo of the Air National Guard said the father approached him after the family arrived in port and "basically apologized for putting us through all this." "I told him he did fine, and he doesn't owe anyone an apology," Polo said. "Even when things went wrong for him, he made all the right decisions. He saved his family."

http://whtc.com/news/articles/2014/...eturns-safely-to-california-aboard-navy-ship/