Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 8

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  • #1,421
Wanting to see the physical evidence themselves is the exact kind of thing this defense would pull. The state might have even told them that's a bad idea and they should just work from their copies and the judge said give them the computer. This judge seems like she would be the kind to make that kind of decision. According to Juan it wasn't just the computer they were looking at.

How can Nurmi lay that on the PD? I mean, he can try, but it was not up to Flores to have the computer turned on and it was not up to him to say yes or no to the defense if they were demanding to see the computer.

And it would be bad news if the defense's actions altered anything important. But fortunately nothing of importance was affected. Close call, though. But it's a problem what happened and I hope they learn from this.

You sound very knowledgable about computers. Are you in the field?

It could turn out to benefit the prosecution—that little dig Juan Martinez threw in about the 28th being the day the malware started to do its work? That was genius. I think Lambchop was onto that coincidence early this morning when this thread opened!

No, computers are a hobby for me. I have tech-savvy kids. Computer forensics (specifically homework file recovery) is among the requirements of being a mom these days.
 
  • #1,422
And wasn't it Sky's home that CMJA was at when she pulled something, but I can't remember what :thinking: ... and Sky told her straight out that she wasn't welcome and to leave. Instead of leaving, CMJA went into the kitchen and stared her down. She refused to leave. Does anyone remember this ? Or someone please correct my faulty memory.

yes that is true
 
  • #1,423
  • #1,424
We obviously have differing opinions on the Hughes and that is ok.

In my opinion, Travis sex life should have been none of their business and I dont see where Travis ever asked them for advice on the subject. Maybe he did. I have no idea.
I dont know their relationship well enough to comment further and will avoid discussing them further after this.

All I know is the words that the Hughes said in those emails are now being used against Travis in a murder trial, and their words seem hurtful to the Prosecution, as well as most likely being hurtful to Travis family. And that is horrible.

And the fact they are writing a book bothers me. Unless I see where ALL the profits from that book go to a charity, I am left to wonder the real motive for the book.

So, we can just agree to disagree about them. Hopefully they will be forced to testify and they can better explain things.

I do want to apologize to you and anybody else if you took it wrong for my earlier careless use of calling the witness today an "old lady". I went back and found my post, and I honestly was just calling her that because she is old and I dont know her name (still dont) and didnt know what else to call her. There was nothing malicious or inferring about my description of her. And I swear that I am practically as old as she is.

I will be more careful in future so people dont take things wrong.

I had no idea the discussion was just about his sex life. If that's true, then I agree, that is none of their business.

I also don't care for the way that simply innocuous, caring emails are now being used to vilify Travis. But I have faith that that will be turned around in rebuttal.

As for the rest, I gladly agree to disagree. But THANK YOU for clarifying everything. You rock!
 
  • #1,425
It could turn out to benefit the prosecution—that little dig Juan Martinez threw in about the 28th being the day the malware started to do its work? That was genius. I think Lambchop was onto that coincidence early this morning when this thread opened!

No, computers are a hobby for me. I have tech-savvy kids. Computer forensics (specifically homework file recovery) is among the requirements of being a mom these days.

Juan is the master of the power of suggestion and saying things without actually saying them. I love it.
 
  • #1,426
You got it. Jodi came over to Sky's house to ask her why she didn't like her and Sky told her exactly why and to leave. And instead Jodi walked into the kitchen and just stared at her and her friend while they fixed lunch for the friend's kid (I think). After about 15 minutes she left.

The gall, right? Not exactly the actions of someone with low self esteem.

It almost makes you wonder if Jodi was wanting to start a big fight and grab a kitchen knife or something.
 
  • #1,427
I would like to make a comment on the Hughes email to Travis. Clearly it doesn't sit well with many that the Hughes' said things that seemed critical of Travis and his personal life. I suspect the Hughes' regret that they "wrote" this email now but at the time they never expected their words to be taken out of context, nor did they ever imagine that this private exchange would be used to malign, smear, or defile their friend in such a vile manner. To me this is a cautionary tale about the far reaching impact of electronic communication, and being diligent about how and what you choose to communicate with the written word. It is an unfortunate fact that there are those who will twist and bastardize the written word in most dishonest and loathesome ways to serve selfish and base motives.

At the time of these email exchanges it is abundantly clear that the Hughes' had no idea what they were dealing with in JA. Her powerful manipulation was lost on them, they had zero awareness of the psychopathic tendencies that lived beneath the charming, manipulative mask JA chose to present to world. They were played--as most people are when it comes to BPD females who use self-victimization, gaslighting, normalizing and triagulation to ingratiate themselves with others. Hell, even trained professionals are often frustrated, manipulated and overwhelmed by those who suffer from BPD. And just for the record BPD rarely stands alone, it often co-occurs with other mental health disorders. In fact, all research shows that as high as 50% of those diagnosed with BPD are also diagnosed with NPD or ASPD as well.

What I took away from hearing this information was how much they must have loved Travis to be honest with their friend to such an extent, and while their personal, cultural and spiritual values were clearly present in their tone and message, what was also very clear was their love for their friend. JMO but I have come to believe the greatest act of love and loyalty is having the courage to be honest with those they love. It is not an easy thing to do.

And to be honest I cringed hearing how this personal communication between very close friends was disected and spun by Nurmi in an effort to prove that Travis' murderer's life is worth saving. This is where Juan needs to turn the tables and expose who the true victim was. The Dr.'s very own words should be carefully and skillfully used to reveal the truth and show that Travis was the victim of a BPD disordered woman with deeply disturbing anti-social, narcissitic traits; and it was in fact Travis' early childhood exposure to abuse and neglect that left him unprepared and ill equipped to see JA's true self until it was too late. It is my belief that the state should elicit from a professional that MEN are actually the true silent sufferers of abuse--their abuse in childhood is rarely reported or even acknowledged, and as far as being a victim of stalkers or DV it is almost never acknowledged or accepted by either the victim or law enforcement.

Based on what was tweeted from the courtroom, it is my contention that what happened today could turn out to be a very bad decision on the part of the DT. They opened the door about abuse and its long term effects on those who have experienced it. As the good Dr. said Travis suffered "worse" abuse than Jodi yet he wasn't periodically unemployed, he did not stalk people, he didn't vandalize her property, he never raised a hand to any female in his life, he had zero history of violating the privacy of any women or friends, he didn't follow any of his ex's around, watch them with others or disingenuously ingratiate himself into the lives and relationships of her friends or family...Oh and yeah, he didn't premeditatedly plan and carry out her murder. Jodi, who according to the defense's own expert suffered less abuse yet has a proven history of repeatedly enaging in all of these things and more.

Juan surely has his work cut out for him and the slope will be extremely slippery, but he has the opportunity to make a very strong case that Travis was the one who suffered abuse both in early childhood and at the hands of Jodi.
 
  • #1,428
I would be willing to bet that any person who dies whose death is subject to inquiry by a defense attorney at a trial would have things in their life history that could be used against them...rightfully or not. It is easy to twist and misconstrue and take things out of context. I really believe the Hughes stepped in trying to get Travis to change his ways not because they feared he was abusive or because they had seen him be abusive in the past, but because he was not a kid anymore and in their view playing the field was something that should come to an end by a certain age. Part of that was they knew he wanted to eventually marry and part was his religion wanting him to marry. Sky and Chris wanted TA to either commit to JA or cut loose because they felt it was not fair to lead her on if he had no intention of taking it seriously. But not long after, their concern became for his rather than her welfare, for obvious reasons. IOW, I do not think they were being nosy or butting in in the sense that is usually seen...I think it was out of concern for what they saw as inappropriate behavior for a Mormon male approaching age 30. IMO.

I hope we see them on the stand explaining their motives, though. I think the jury has a right to hear from the authors of the emails what they meant.

You are right krkrjx. My post was not disagreeing that his friends couldn't go to him with concerns. I just wish, in hindsight, they had done so in person. Then there would be no emails to misconstrue. There were a couple of comments they sent to Travis that seemed none of their business but that isn't the issue. Because it was in an email, the defense was able to frame it the way they wanted. I admit my age has a lot to do with my opinion. I grew up without texts, emails, social media, etc. Things of concern were discussed face to face, a lost art if you ask me. But my own grandchildren would look at me like I am a prehistoric animal for even saying the Hughes should not have emailed him these things. :)
I do believe JM might call the Hughes for clarification and that would be great. Again though, if this were not a murder trial, how dare anyone tell their 30 year old friend in an email how to treat a woman or that he needs to settle down. Sheesh! He was just a kid, compared to my 66 years. But this is a murder trial, one in which a psychopath horribly took a mans life and Juan will be all over this! In any case, he will make this about Travis again and not CMJA.
 
  • #1,429
How many people with self esteem issues would be confidant enough to contact a network offering to do a story.

Or call the CRIME SCENE and ask to talk to the detective in charge of the case? The case in which YOU are guilty of cold blooded murder!
 
  • #1,430
I would like to make a comment on the Hughes email to Travis. Clearly it doesn't sit well with many that the Hughes' said things that seemed critical of Travis and his personal life. I suspect the Hughes' regret that they "wrote" this email now but at the time they never expected their words to be taken out of context, nor did they ever imagine that this private exchange would be used to malign, smear, or defile their friend in such a vile manner. To me this is a cautionary tale about the far reaching impact of electronic communication, and being diligent about how and what you choose to communicate with the written word. It is an unfortunate fact that there are those who will twist and bastardize the written word in most dishonest and loathesome ways to serve selfish and base motives.

At the time of these email exchanges it is abundantly clear that the Hughes' had no idea what they were dealing with in JA. Her powerful manipulation was lost on them, they had zero awareness of the psychopathic tendencies that lived beneath the charming, manipulative mask JA chose to present to world. They were played--as most people are when it comes to BPD females who use self-victimization, gaslighting, normalizing and triagulation to ingratiate themselves with others. Hell, even trained professionals are often frustrated, manipulated and overwhelmed by those who suffer from BPD. And just for the record BPD rarely stands alone, it often co-occurs with another mental health disorder. In fact, all research shows that as high as 50% of those diagnosed with BPD are also diagnosed with NPD or ASPD as well.

What I took away from hearing this information was how much they must have loved Travis to be honest with their friend to such an extent, and while their personal, cultural and spiritual values were clearly present in their tone and message, what was also very clear was their love for their friend. JMO but I have come to believe the greatest act of love and loyalty is having the courage to be honest with those they love. It is not an easy thing to do.

And to be honest I cringed hearing how this personal communication between very close friends was disected and spun by Nurmi in an effort to prove that Travis' murderer's life is worth saving. This is where Juan needs to turn the tables and expose who the true victim was. The Dr.'s very own words should be carefully and skillfully used to reveal the truth and show that Travis was the victim of a BPD disordered woman with deeply disturbing anti-social, narcissitic traits; and it was in fact Travis' early childhood exposure to abuse and neglect that left him unprepared and ill equipped to see JA's true self until it was too late. It is my belief that the state should elicit from a professional that MEN are actually the true silent sufferers of abuse--their abuse in childhood is rarely reported or even acknowledged, and as far as being a victim of stalkers or DV it almost never acknowledged or accepted by either the victim or law enforcement.

It is my contention that what happened today could turn out to be a very bad decision on the part of the DT. They opened the door about abuse and it's long term effects on those who have experienced it. As the good Dr. said Travis suffered "worse" abuse than Jodi but he wasn't periodically unemployed, he did not stalk people, he didn't vandalize her property, he never raised a hand to any female in his life, he had zero history of violating the privacy of any women or friends, he didn't follow any of his ex's around, watch them with others or ingratiate with her friends and family...Oh and yeah, he didn't premeditatedly plan and carry out her murder. Jodi, who according to the defense's own expert suffered less abuse yet has a proven history of all of repeatedly enaging in all of these things and more.

Juan surely has his work cut out for him and the slope will be extremely slippery, but he has the opportunity to make a very strong case that Travis was the one who suffered abuse both in early childhood and at the hands of Jodi.


Perfect! You said what I tried and failed to say all day! Thank you!!!
 
  • #1,431
Here's the thing. Travis did not navigate that terrible childhood unscathed. He WAS a Mormon and WAS successful and popular and DID exceed anyone's expectations and he was also still scarred and imo, the arena of women/sex is where he was still quite immature and affected. And he was still working on himself. I can relate to him more than you know.

Oh, me too, GF, me too.
 
  • #1,432
It almost makes you wonder if Jodi was wanting to start a big fight and grab a kitchen knife or something.

Yes and I find her just as creepy doing that as sleeping behind Travis's Christmas tree uninvited!
 
  • #1,433
I hope Juan reads these posts and gets his line of questioning from them... But I trust in Juan. He's gonna chew her up and spit her out. He reminds me of Jeff Ashton in so many ways.
 
  • #1,434
No problem with that. The trick is for the dyad to be honest with each other about what the two are doing. It's not fair for one of them to behave as though there are no strings and simultaneously stalk the other.


Agreed.
 
  • #1,435
Is everyone else thrilled with Juan's reply to Nurmis motion regarding the computer websites? :)
i could read that over and over and over. I just smile with how brilliant this prosecutor is. The way he brought out how the files appeared on the very day she was stealing the gun and setting up the fake robbery at her grandparents home was just delicious. And how Travis couldn't access 🤬🤬🤬🤬 sites on June 10, 2008, as he had already been murdered! Yes, I am a Proud Juanette!
 
  • #1,436
I would like to make a comment on the Hughes email to Travis. Clearly it doesn't sit well with many that the Hughes' said things that seemed critical of Travis and his personal life. I suspect the Hughes' regret that they "wrote" this email now but at the time they never expected their words to be taken out of context, nor did they ever imagine that this private exchange would be used to malign, smear, or defile their friend in such a vile manner. To me this is a cautionary tale about the far reaching impact of electronic communication, and being diligent about how and what you choose to communicate with the written word. It is an unfortunate fact that there are those who will twist and bastardize the written word in most dishonest and loathesome ways to serve selfish and base motives.

At the time of these email exchanges it is abundantly clear that the Hughes' had no idea what they were dealing with in JA. Her powerful manipulation was lost on them, they had zero awareness of the psychopathic tendencies that lived beneath the charming, manipulative mask JA chose to present to world. They were played--as most people are when it comes to BPD females who use self-victimization, gaslighting, normalizing and triagulation to ingratiate themselves with others. Hell, even trained professionals are often frustrated, manipulated and overwhelmed by those who suffer from BPD. And just for the record BPD rarely stands alone, it often co-occurs with other mental health disorders. In fact, all research shows that as high as 50% of those diagnosed with BPD are also diagnosed with NPD or ASPD as well.

What I took away from hearing this information was how much they must have loved Travis to be honest with their friend to such an extent, and while their personal, cultural and spiritual values were clearly present in their tone and message, what was also very clear was their love for their friend. JMO but I have come to believe the greatest act of love and loyalty is having the courage to be honest with those they love. It is not an easy thing to do.

And to be honest I cringed hearing how this personal communication between very close friends was disected and spun by Nurmi in an effort to prove that Travis' murderer's life is worth saving. This is where Juan needs to turn the tables and expose who the true victim was. The Dr.'s very own words should be carefully and skillfully used to reveal the truth and show that Travis was the victim of a BPD disordered woman with deeply disturbing anti-social, narcissitic traits; and it was in fact Travis' early childhood exposure to abuse and neglect that left him unprepared and ill equipped to see JA's true self until it was too late. It is my belief that the state should elicit from a professional that MEN are actually the true silent sufferers of abuse--their abuse in childhood is rarely reported or even acknowledged, and as far as being a victim of stalkers or DV it is almost never acknowledged or accepted by either the victim or law enforcement.

Based on what was tweeted from the courtroom, it is my contention that what happened today could turn out to be a very bad decision on the part of the DT. They opened the door about abuse and its long term effects on those who have experienced it. As the good Dr. said Travis suffered "worse" abuse than Jodi yet he wasn't periodically unemployed, he did not stalk people, he didn't vandalize her property, he never raised a hand to any female in his life, he had zero history of violating the privacy of any women or friends, he didn't follow any of his ex's around, watch them with others or disingenuously ingratiate himself into the lives and relationships of her friends or family...Oh and yeah, he didn't premeditatedly plan and carry out her murder. Jodi, who according to the defense's own expert suffered less abuse yet has a proven history of repeatedly enaging in all of these things and more.

Juan surely has his work cut out for him and the slope will be extremely slippery, but he has the opportunity to make a very strong case that Travis was the one who suffered abuse both in early childhood and at the hands of Jodi.

Really well said! Bravo...
 
  • #1,437
...right, you know, because all those other Mormons aren't good in bed!! :floorlaugh:

Which reminds one of Abe Abdelhadi's exchange with her regarding her statement to him that she was "trying out" Mormonism.

The two of them were physical enough for him to discover her lack of the Mormon 'garment.'

Abe to JA: Those aren't magic underwear.

JA to Abe: No, but there's magic in them.
 
  • #1,438
I hope Juan reads these posts and gets his line of questioning from them... But I trust in Juan. He's gonna chew her up and spit her out. He reminds me of Jeff Ashton in so many ways.

Me too. I love J Ashton. But in hindsight it seems that he overlooked and underestimated the connection JB was having with the jury. Sadly.
 
  • #1,439
Oh my heart is going out to you right now. I didn't know. Yes, we all seem to congregate in places like this. It may be 29 years but only 29 days you've had to deal with this particular hard moment. Go softly with yourself...you're not alone.

:heartbeat::heartbeat:
 
  • #1,440
Me too. I love J Ashton. But in hindsight it seems that he overlooked and underestimated the connection JB was having with the jury. Sadly.
Agreed.. This time around with this trial I think nurmi is totally losing the jurors. They were all so bored today.. and probably aggravated that they have had so much time off when they expected this trial to move along.
 
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