Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[NocturnalLady]

Yes, yes and yes! I know Cindy loved Caylee so much, why didnt she go find her the first 24 hours after Casey "moved out" ( I am assuming it was June 9th)? I would think she would have moved heaven and earth to find her and bring her back where she belonged. They had NOWHERE to go. You are right that covering up is going on big time here, starting with the FIGHT, and spiralling out of control from there.

I think she didn't go looking for Caylee because CA had kicked Casey out of the house after the big fight. I think CA thought she was fighting a war of attrition during that 31 days. She was going to outlast Casey. Let Casey see how bad it was out there and have to come crawling back asking for forgiveness. I think CA thought Casey wouldn't last two days out in the real world. As time went on and Casey didn't return home CA did start to become worried and wanted to check on Caylee. I think in her warped reasoning the My Caylee is Missing post on MySpace was CA's way of trying to give Casey an opening to come home. By bringing the problem "out into the open" like that CA thought she would either shame Casey into returning with Caylee or get Casey to see how hurt CA was and to return because she felt sorry for her Mom. Obviously CA had no idea that she and Casey weren't even playing the same game. I think that the suspicion that things were very very wrong was slow to dawn on CA because she thought she was doing the same old same old with Casey. Pretending to believe Casey's wild stories, trying to manipulate her in return. I think when they got the letter from the tow yard the A's didn't thnk it had anything to do with Caylee. They were angry that Casey had screwed them over again, cost them money... When GA picked up the car by his own admission he knew something was very very wrong. But CA's - flippant "What died" and then "It was the pizza right?" told GA what CA wanted to hear. Just like when CA starts to try to catch Casey in a lie about the photo of Ricardo's apt. She starts off with a powerplay but immediately tells Casey what she wants to hear. CA didn't really want the lie exposed. On one level she wanted to know where Caylee was - but at the real, true deepest level she absolutely did not want to hear what she suspected was true. Same with her reaction to the car. The A's have been in cover up mode with Casey for as far back as anyone can tell. The smell in the car was the beginning of the dawning of the awful truth but it was pushed away and covered up almost immediately. Just like always...

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

OK, just some random thoughts about picture #49. The flowers appear to be Bird of paradise. They seem to be rather young or stunted from being so close to the fence. The fence and the ground appear to be wet, probably part of the wet weather back then in Florida. The newer mulch/rock were more than likely placed due to roof wash-out. Most homes here don't have gutters all the way around the house. Builders typically only place them in high traffic areas (unless its a more expensive home or added) Since there may be some botanical testing, is it possible that some (or one) of these plants were found near the body? Since they are clumping plants could they be 'trace-able' along with the soil?
Back OT, the A's reek of cover-up from the moment the light bulb went off in CA's head. If you were planning on taking custody of your grandchild wouldn't calling the authorities have dawned on you when the baby hadn't been seen for the first week? For certain when you realized your child had no means for providing ANYTHING for your grandbaby? They had no permanent place to live but your home. Once July arrived, the certified letter (from the tow yard) proved there was no vehical for your grandbaby to live in at a bare minimum.Wouldn't a controlling opinionated grandmother have made a call to Child Protective Services by then if only to build your case for custody? All this before she 'knew' Caylee was missing.There would be no need to protect your 'visitation' rights at this point, go ahead and tick KC off. For some reason the 'battle' was out of her at this point.
IMO, once she DID involve the authorities it was too late and her learned behavior of clean-up and cover-up kicked in. Once the ball started rolling, there was no way to stop it in the A's la-la land.

Perfect, BionicSurfer! If there is one moment when Caylee's grandparents failed her this was it. I have always said they should have requested a "welfare check" from the police dept (especially with George having been former LE ~ they would have tried to help them out). If that didn't work George and Cindy could have called in the "stolen car" accusation that Cindy started with on her infamous 911 calls on 15 July. It would have been well within reason to do that, given what we think transpired, on 16 June. Maybe even that would have been too late.

How awful, awful to have this all played out before your very eyes and know you didn't prevent this from happening. God forgive them; they must be living in a Hell of their own. Even if they have tried to cover everything up since then ~ they know. In their hearts and minds, they know. I don't care what they try to do or say "publicly" ~ they know even better than we do. I just wish they could be strong enough to be honest. I don't understand people like this.

They just didn't know how evil Casey could be. But now are they covering for Casey or the guilt they feel they share?

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

If that was my kid's car #1---I'd be calling constantly, just call after call after call, etc. but if I couldn't reach my kid my text to him/her, after finding my car smelling like that and all the other previous 30 day stuff, would be something like this: "I"M AT TOW LOT WITH YOUR STINKING CAR--WTF??!! CALL ME NOW COZ I'M CALLING THE LAW!! U HAVE 2 MINUTES! JMO

Finally a Mother with a mouth like mine. I sure wouldn't have been as nice as CA/GA taking the car home and cleaning it our for her. The Law would have been there and we would have been figurin' some chit out!

 

[BionicSurfer]

I think she didn't go looking for Caylee because CA had kicked Casey out of the house after the big fight. I think CA thought she was fighting a war of attrition during that 31 days. She was going to outlast Casey. Let Casey see how bad it was out there and have to come crawling back asking for forgiveness. I think CA thought Casey wouldn't last two days out in the real world. As time went on and Casey didn't return home CA did start to become worried and wanted to check on Caylee. I think in her warped reasoning the My Caylee is Missing post on MySpace was CA's way of trying to give Casey an opening to come home. By bringing the problem "out into the open" like that CA thought she would either shame Casey into returning with Caylee or get Casey to see how hurt CA was and to return because she felt sorry for her Mom. Obviously CA had no idea that she and Casey weren't even playing the same game. I think that the suspicion that things were very very wrong was slow to dawn on CA because she thought she was doing the same old same old with Casey. Pretending to believe Casey's wild stories, trying to manipulate her in return. I think when they got the letter from the tow yard the A's didn't thnk it had anything to do with Caylee. They were angry that Casey had screwed them over again, cost them money... When GA picked up the car by his own admission he knew something was very very wrong. But CA's - flippant "What died" and then "It was the pizza right?" told GA what CA wanted to hear. Just like when CA starts to try to catch Casey in a lie about the photo of Ricardo's apt. She starts off with a powerplay but immediately tells Casey what she wants to hear. CA didn't really want the lie exposed. On one level she wanted to know where Caylee was - but at the real, true deepest level she absolutely did not want to hear what she suspected was true. Same with her reaction to the car. The A's have been in cover up mode with Casey for as far back as anyone can tell. The smell in the car was the beginning of the dawning of the awful truth but it was pushed away and covered up almost immediately. Just like always...

How well thought out NocturlalLady! Your tought process ALMOST makes this crazy way of reasoning make some sense (in the loopy way of the A's thinking. Talk about torment, the stubborness and ego that ruined all of their lives! What a horrible way to live. I understand booting KC to the curb (I've done it to one of my children and it is very difficult) but how do you suddenly ignore the baby's welfare? How do you go to sleep at night not knowing if that baby has eaten, is safe or alive? Man, how does an ego get that important? I'm all for tuff love by what lesson were they teaching Caylee? Wouldn't "normal" thinking drive you to protect the defensless AND THEN continue with your lesson teaching?
Arrrgh!
How do you MySpace your feelings for your grand-daughter and not make a phone call to the authorities that KC could't trace back to you?
I've tried hard to understand the A's reactions and behavior but it makes me crazy. Even the best pathological liar knows when the gig is up. Enough is enough and no one's buying it, time to 'fess up and try to heal. (And KC didn't suck this behavior out of her thumb!!!!)

 

[Jolynna]

How well thought out NocturlalLady! Your tought process ALMOST makes this crazy way of reasoning make some sense (in the loopy way of the A's thinking. Talk about torment, the stubborness and ego that ruined all of their lives! What a horrible way to live. I understand booting KC to the curb (I've done it to one of my children and it is very difficult) but how do you suddenly ignore the baby's welfare? How do you go to sleep at night not knowing if that baby has eaten, is safe or alive? Man, how does an ego get that important? I'm all for tuff love by what lesson were they teaching Caylee? Wouldn't "normal" thinking drive you to protect the defensless AND THEN continue with your lesson teaching?
Arrrgh!
How do you MySpace your feelings for your grand-daughter and not make a phone call to the authorities that KC could't trace back to you?
I've tried hard to understand the A's reactions and behavior but it makes me crazy. Even the best pathological liar knows when the gig is up. Enough is enough and no one's buying it, time to 'fess up and try to heal. (And KC didn't suck this behavior out of her thumb!!!!)

They didn't know Caylee was in danger. They thought KC was hiding out with one of her friends and punishing them by keeping Caylee away. If they played nice KC would wear out her welcome where she was, need money and come back with her tail tucked between her legs bringing Caylee.

IMO

 

[BionicSurfer]

They didn't know Caylee was in danger. They thought KC was hiding out with one of her friends and punishing them by keeping Caylee away. If they played nice KC would wear out her welcome where she was, need money and come back with her tail tucked between her legs bringing Caylee.

IMO

I agree with you Jolynna!
It's the old more flies with honey trick. The part the part I don't get is Caylee. How did they ingore her welfare? I agree that KC needed a swift kick in the britches and they were the boot. They knew her mothering skills were at best questionable. How did they close their eyes at night?
Guess I'm just getting squishy in my old age.

 

[Reznor]

I agree with you Jolynna!
It's the old more flies with honey trick. The part the part I don't get is Caylee. How did they ingore her welfare? I agree that KC needed a swift kick in the britches and they were the boot. They knew her mothering skills were at best questionable. How did they close their eyes at night?
Guess I'm just getting squishy in my old age.

I have to agree. It's almost like they jeopardized Caylee safety for their own selfish reasons. Their guilt and knowledge of this is the reasoning behind the cover ups. I'm sure CA is full of would of could of should of. I also don't believe CA loved Caylee like she broadcast to the world. CA does what makes CA look good. She is a very insecure person. All my own opinion.

 

[my2sense]

I have to agree. It's almost like they jeopardized Caylee safety for their own selfish reasons. Their guilt and knowledge of this is the reasoning behind the cover ups. I'm sure CA is full of would of could of should of. I also don't believe CA loved Caylee like she broadcast to the world. CA does what makes CA look good. She is a very insecure person. All my own opinion.

I don't think they thought Caylee was in any danger. Cindy's issues with Casey were more about money than anything else. Cindy was mad that she was essentially carrying the biggest load (money-wise) in that house. I don't think she was worried about how Casey physically took care of Caylee (diaper changes, naps, etc.).
When a sociopath is playing their current role, they play it to the hilt. When Casey was playing the good mommy role, I'll bet she did a bang-up job of it. But when she decided she didn't like that role anymore, that's when Caylee was in danger. MOO

 

[SleuthyMama]

I think she didn't go looking for Caylee because CA had kicked Casey out of the house after the big fight. I think CA thought she was fighting a war of attrition during that 31 days. She was going to outlast Casey. Let Casey see how bad it was out there and have to come crawling back asking for forgiveness. I think CA thought Casey wouldn't last two days out in the real world. As time went on and Casey didn't return home CA did start to become worried and wanted to check on Caylee. I think in her warped reasoning the My Caylee is Missing post on MySpace was CA's way of trying to give Casey an opening to come home. By bringing the problem "out into the open" like that CA thought she would either shame Casey into returning with Caylee or get Casey to see how hurt CA was and to return because she felt sorry for her Mom. Obviously CA had no idea that she and Casey weren't even playing the same game. I think that the suspicion that things were very very wrong was slow to dawn on CA because she thought she was doing the same old same old with Casey. Pretending to believe Casey's wild stories, trying to manipulate her in return. I think when they got the letter from the tow yard the A's didn't thnk it had anything to do with Caylee. They were angry that Casey had screwed them over again, cost them money... When GA picked up the car by his own admission he knew something was very very wrong. But CA's - flippant "What died" and then "It was the pizza right?" told GA what CA wanted to hear. Just like when CA starts to try to catch Casey in a lie about the photo of Ricardo's apt. She starts off with a powerplay but immediately tells Casey what she wants to hear. CA didn't really want the lie exposed. On one level she wanted to know where Caylee was - but at the real, true deepest level she absolutely did not want to hear what she suspected was true. Same with her reaction to the car. The A's have been in cover up mode with Casey for as far back as anyone can tell. The smell in the car was the beginning of the dawning of the awful truth but it was pushed away and covered up almost immediately. Just like always...

BBM. Fabulous post, NL. Hitting my thank you button wasn't enough.

 

[Reznor]

I don't think they thought Caylee was in any danger. Cindy's issues with Casey were more about money than anything else. Cindy was mad that she was essentially carrying the biggest load (money-wise) in that house. I don't think she was worried about how Casey physically took care of Caylee (diaper changes, naps, etc.).
When a sociopath is playing their current role, they play it to the hilt. When Casey was playing the good mommy role, I'll bet she did a bang-up job of it. But when she decided she didn't like that role anymore, that's when Caylee was in danger. MOO

They jeopardized Caylee safety for selfish reason. I think money would be a selfish reason. If she is stealing from the grandparents obviously she has no means of taking care of Caylee. Would that not be a sign of danger? I just keep thinking if one person in that house loved Caylee purely she would still be alive today.

They knew how unfit of a mother she was and did nothing. That's why the cover ups began.

 

[SleuthyMama]

They jeopardized Caylee safety for selfish reason. I think money would be a selfish reason. If she is stealing from the grandparents obviously she has no means of taking care of Caylee. Would that not be a sign of danger? I just keep thinking if one person in that house loved Caylee purely she would still be alive today.

They knew how unfit of a mother she was and did nothing. That's why the cover ups began.

BBM. ITA Reznor. But I also think that they did what they always did. It was a vicious cycle that just went unchallenged until it was too late. Not making excuses for any of them but it is very easy for us to see their faults and failings looking in but I think they did and acted in ways that were second nature to that family. That was THEIR norm. They all reaped what they sowed.

 

[RR0004]

How well thought out NocturlalLady! Your tought process ALMOST makes this crazy way of reasoning make some sense (in the loopy way of the A's thinking. Talk about torment, the stubborness and ego that ruined all of their lives! What a horrible way to live. I understand booting KC to the curb (I've done it to one of my children and it is very difficult) but how do you suddenly ignore the baby's welfare? How do you go to sleep at night not knowing if that baby has eaten, is safe or alive? Man, how does an ego get that important? I'm all for tuff love by what lesson were they teaching Caylee? Wouldn't "normal" thinking drive you to protect the defensless AND THEN continue with your lesson teaching?
Arrrgh!
How do you MySpace your feelings for your grand-daughter and not make a phone call to the authorities that KC could't trace back to you?
I've tried hard to understand the A's reactions and behavior but it makes me crazy. Even the best pathological liar knows when the gig is up. Enough is enough and no one's buying it, time to 'fess up and try to heal. (And KC didn't suck this behavior out of her thumb!!!!)

This is also what I have trouble understanding. Obviously, Cindy was concerned with Caylee's welfare...she spoke to a counselor about it. How do you go 31 days without seeing your granddaughter? Not the best time to have pulled a power play.

 

[Reznor]

BBM. ITA Reznor. But I also think that they did what they always did. It was a vicious cycle that just went unchallenged until it was too late. Not making excuses for any of them but it is very easy for us to see their faults and failings looking in but I think they did and acted in ways that were second nature to that family. That was THEIR norm. They all reaped what they sowed.

No but needed. ITA. They did what they always do. The normal for that family. I was giving my reasons for the cover ups. I think they have been covering up and faking their whole life.

 

[RR0004]

They jeopardized Caylee safety for selfish reason. I think money would be a selfish reason. If she is stealing from the grandparents obviously she has no means of taking care of Caylee. Would that not be a sign of danger? I just keep thinking if one person in that house loved Caylee purely she would still be alive today.

They knew how unfit of a mother she was and did nothing. That's why the cover ups began.

...and that's why very early on they attributed Casey's "change in behavior" to the new friends she had been hanging out with.

 

[Reznor]

This is also what I have trouble understanding. Obviously, Cindy was concerned with Caylee's welfare...she spoke to a counselor about it. How do you go 31 days without seeing your granddaughter? Not the best time to have pulled a power play.

I have always wondered about Cindy's counselor meetings? What the counselor said? How she advised Cindy? If there was counselor meetings? If she said she was advised to give KC tough love would that not put blame on a pretend counselor?

 

[Reznor]

...and that's why very early on they attributed Casey's "change in behavior" to the new friends she had been hanging out with.

Yep! People like this blame everything on everyone else.

 

[NocturnalLady]

This is also what I have trouble understanding. Obviously, Cindy was concerned with Caylee's welfare...she spoke to a counselor about it. How do you go 31 days without seeing your granddaughter? Not the best time to have pulled a power play.

I actually think CA was - in a warped way & far, far too late - trying to correct some of her past parenting mistakes with Casey. I think she had (possibly) been given some "get tough" advice from her therapist/councellor and had finally decided that she needed to act. I think CA was actually trying to start the separation process, get Casey out of the family nest and force Casey into some accountability. The problem is that the "tough love" scenario was acceptable to CA at that point because she was angry. So a huge, dramatic action (kicking Casey out) and then being uncompromising about the results probably appealed to her when she first initiated the process. She was very, very angry with Casey. The advice she got just happened to come at the right time and put a stamp of legitimacy on CA's actions.

However, deep down, I don't think CA was ever really prepared to let Casey go. No way. Her real desire was to punish Casey. And to teach her that, "you see, you really can't make it without me". She actually wanted Casey to fail so that Casey would have to come back home and fall back in line. So, as usually Casey got very mixed messages from Cindy.

The really sad thing is that CA crossed a line with Casey when she tried to play this game. In Casey's mind she needed the safety of her parents home, where she could live without having to work and have free care fro Caylee. CA's empty threat to take that away from Casey was too much for her. I really think she enacted the fantasy she had long held of getting rid of Caylee as a punishment directed at Cindy. She over reacted to the perceived collapse of her world. In her impulsive, sociopathic brain it's as if Cindy fired a warning shot and Casey in return set of a nuclear bomb.

I think the A family system was the only one Casey was capable of operating within and she knew it. Sure, she could go on "outings" to the real world and mimic real people for a little while but she always had to return to that home base because long term relationships with people, jobs, housing etc were impossible for her.

Sadly, when it came down to it, Casey had fantasized about being rid of Caylee often enough that when the impetus finally was great enough I think she had no problem killing her - and probably had great satisfaction in finally enacting her "plans". This is a girl who never followed through on anything. I think she feels a great sense of accomplishment and relief stemming from what she did.

To bring this back around to the topic of the cover up. I think all of these psychic dynamics are things that people know and perceive without ever fully admitting it to themselves. That is why there is the dichotomy of CA and GA seeming to "know" that Casey is a killer and Caylee is dead when they got ahold of that car and yet still being able to look each other in the eyes and blame it on a pizza.

 

[Jolynna]

In all fairness to Cindy, Cindy discussed the counselor and "kicking out" KC both with Shirley and with her coworkers. Which sounds like she was trying to get feedback. I under the impression that both Shirley and the co-workers thought KC should be kicked out. Otherwise Cindy wouldn't have had to explain why she didn't follow through.

Far from blaming the therapist/counselor for kicking KC out, Cindy hasn't even admitted after July 15 that KC ever was a problem--let alone that she had gone to see somebody about her. As soon as Cindy lost hope for Caylee she started whitewashing KC.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

IMO, Caylee was just another pawn in the power struggle. CA HAD to be in control. CA refused to let kc get an abortion as she wanted, but then complained kc wasn't a great mom. CA threatened to take Caylee, but I don't think she really planned on it. CA covering up is her way of taking the upper hand in a situation she otherwise has no control over.

The unfortunate part is that G & C failed Caylee miserably. The least they could do now is show her some respect by seeking justice for what happened to her.

 

[Searchfortruth]

This is also what I have trouble understanding. Obviously, Cindy was concerned with Caylee's welfare...she spoke to a counselor about it. How do you go 31 days without seeing your granddaughter? Not the best time to have pulled a power play.

I don't get it and it doesn't become any clearer, no matter how many posts I read. Cindy's My Space message says that she was worried for Caylee's welfare, "no money, no future... who is taking care of the angel now" ? Cindy knew then, probably before then, that Caylee was at risk, yet no call to LE or CPS.

Were they covering on July 16th ? Yep, they sure were, they were covering on the 15th when they drove that car home without calling LE. Cindy said to Casey "what have you done" ? But moments later she was calling 911 to report a missing child who had been kidnapped by the "nanny"...she was reporting Caylee missing because she had the nanny who was responsible for this crime, her daughter was in the clear (or so she thought).

ITA Yellow Submarine, Cindy and George have and continue to fail Caylee miserably. Even at this late date they can not stand up for the only victim in this tragedy, thankfully the state and others (ie; the Grunds) will stand up in their place.