Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[Friday]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

 

[Friday]

Resp snipped

But IF the smell of human decomp is so distinctive and was so strong then why didn't ANY of those cops that were in and out of the house July 15 say-- hold on a minute-- we must have a dead body??!!

I've never really heard anyone question either George or Cindy enough about just how much cleaning was done. Could Febreze really have covered it? That's quite a commercial for Febreze.

Two great and really important questions I've wondered about, too! Regarding the decomp smell the other cops seemed to ignore that first night, I can only guess they were figuring that the car had been abandoned two weeks before and had been sitting in a tow yard during which time it must have somehow picked up the cadaver smell???

I'd love to know the answer to that and even more so, the answer to how much cleaning George/Cindy/Lee might have done.

 

[MissJames]

Hello WS

Thanks for all your answers on Cindy's wording. I know(hope)no one is really offended: it wasn't really a honest question as I understand that this has to be the guilt(pills) talking. I understand interchanging "bring her to me" and "take me to her" or but you can't interchange "me to her" or "her to me"-no one anywhere does that-you can say "bring her to me" or "take me to her" but not "take her to me". She could have said "bring her to me" but she said "take her to me" And again with Amy, Cindy says "take her to me"-It's not the "bring" or "take" that I question, it's the "me to her" part.

Sorry for the confusion: btw I live in Georgia.

It's not really important, I don't think...except that I think that by this time, Cindy knew that Caylee was dead and that Casey had done it and the confused language is "statement analysis" re: she is thinking one thing but trying to convey another. That is why she starts to say "and knowing what I know now" but changes it to "no...no one" I don't think Cindy knew that Caylee was gone when she made the 911 call but by the time of this interview(sorry don't have the date of this one, WS help?)...

she knew.

...jmo...

Oh yes,Chiquita,I agree,she knew.
I happen to be a person who mangles sentences,quotes,sayings,etc.I will start with one quote and finish with another. It's like the two sayings are running through my head,I only intend to use one and bits of both come out. I could see myself saying "take her to me".especially if I was under stress.Let's face it,keeping up with all their lies and convoluted stories must be stressful .
I want to thank you again for bringing all the older transcripts back to our attention. It really is eyeopening and I appreciate all the effort and thought that goes into your work.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I lean toward the simplest answer to be nearest the "truth" (Occam's razor-type thinking here).

The Anthony's as a group realized the truth, that KC murdered Caylee, on that first day. The cover up began after CA's "regrettable" 911 call, because that is what families who produce these kinds of psychopaths generally DO. None of them have a mature sense of what "truth" is, they perceive like children before they mature out of magical thinking. They are retarded, never having gotten to the point that the "truth" exists outside what they want it to be.

It follows that they continue to make complete idiots out of themselves. I follow this case daily but can't find it in myself to try and psyche these retarded people out . . . other than to decide they are examples of human evil, in all it's glory. Evil protects itself from itself with a drive that is almost impossible to understand, much less rationalize.

Either you assume the Anthony's knew about Caylee's demise before OR after CA called 911 that day. Different lines of logic follow each assumption. Since we don't KNOW for sure either way, to me, the only thing that makes sense of the facts we have now is that the Anthony's had no clue. Their behavior after the 911 call is just how they always act, in all of their dealings.

Their cover up behavior makes just as much sense to me whether they knew something terribly happened to Caylee before the 911 call or not. They cover up because evil seeks to hide itself at all costs.

 

[Friday]

I also have never understood how with such a short time span, all of the stains, and yet no dna evidence of Caylee like blood or decomp fluid (does decomp have dna?) I do have trouble with how KC and or her family were able to remove almost all traces in the trunk minus one hair (that we know of).

It seems almost inconceivable that they could have accomplished that at all, let alone so quickly. On the other hand, they must have been able to, because Casey had used that car with Caylee for three entire years. During that time the trunk had to have contained diaper bags, used diapers, used or soiled clothes, baby bottles, sippy cups, soiled bibs, used blankets, toys, etc, etc., and yet there was no trace of anything from any of that nor any DNA of Caylee's that surely would have been deposited on some of those items.

 

[MissJames]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

I think what wigs me out the most was both George and Cindy returning to work.More than anything else that day,it makes me wonder why they thought they had to act as if everything was normal.It was far from normal.Not seeing Caylee for a month,when she LIVED with them was a red flag.Finding out definitively that KC was lying to them was a blazing red flag.The smell of decomp in the abandoned car should have been a red flag on fire! But they both go back to work.That sets my hinky meter off.Wether they knew what happened or not,I think that decision was the start of covering for KC. Just act like everything is normal.It's their MO.
Just My Opinion.

 

[Micheline]

As much as I don't believe Cindy was already in cover up mode when she made the 911 calls, but if she was (as some seem to believe) she had not choice but to do so.
I think she realised that if not, someone else (George, Lee, Amy) would call the cops on Casey that evening/night/next morning. IMO

 

[MissJames]

No joke, listening to that call now is just sickening!

So OT......watching that child throw up on tv the next morning was also sickening!

 

[akashana]

I believe that after the night of the fight and whatever transpired in the Anthony home all of the family members knew that a corner had been turned, and there was no going back to whatever semblance of normality that existed for them. There was the issue of the theft of the check, the betrayal of trust amongst family members. I bet Cindy got a lot of digs in about KC's mothering skills and current partying lifestyle. And KC retaliated verbally after Cindy accosted her, leaving in a rage. So everybody knew that for this family to again come together peaceably, amends must be made, apologies extended. It was the beginning of the end for the Anthony family unit. I bet initially G&C felt it prudent to give KC time away to cool down and realize just how much help her parents had been to her. Not all 20-somethings with a toddler in tow have the luxury of living rent- and expense-free in the family home while grandma pays all the bills and buys all the supplies for the little one. Maybe they thought a few days of shlepping little Caylee here, there and everywhere, to nanny's and boyfriends' and friends' houses without gma and gpa to pick up the slack, would be good for KC, give her a different perspective for a change. But of course that didn't happen, because KC chose to kill her child rather than assume responsibility for her after she left in a fit of pique.

 

[CitizenKim]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

I've thought about that- and it's a bit chilling. I think that Cindy was coming across as an over-involved, angry, domineering G-ma. Is it possible Casey could have convinced the cops of that? Could Casey have just stuck to her guns and kept Cindy away that night? She's the mother- not Cindy. It's a scary thought bc she might have been able to get away w/it and she could have just disappeared. (Except for the fact that she was getting more attached to Tony and didn't want to leave. Plus she had blown Amy's bank acct on beer and clothes. Maybe that was going to be her escape to Cali money?)

She liked to push things to the absolute limit-- striding confidently down that hall to her office before giving up the job at Universal lie. Somehow Lee convinced her that she was trapped. He remarked about the look of shock on her face when he said-- Let's play this out-- and outlined the scenario that the cops WOULD force her to take them to Caylee. Thus Casey reached the end of the hall (Thank God!) and Caylee was reported missing.

 

[Friday]

Snip:

I've thought about that- and it's a bit chilling. I think that Cindy was coming across as an over-involved, angry, domineering G-ma. Is it possible Casey could have convinced the cops of that? Could Casey have just stuck to her guns and kept Cindy away that night? She's the mother- not Cindy.

Re bold--That's a great question. I'm not sure what the police would do, or be legally able to do, if Casey had exerted her rights as Caylee's mother that first night and assured the police that Caylee was fine, that Cindy was merely using the police to bulldoze KC into doing Cindy's bidding, and that she (KC) was not going to play along...and then she could have asked them for a ride back to Tony's.

I'm guessing that since the welfare of a 2 year old was involved, the police would have wanted to check with "the nanny" (in person?) that night or the next day, just to make sure? However, if Cindy also marched them out to the Pontiac to take a whif, I think they would have felt they had sufficient reason to investigate the situation at the nanny's immediately.

 

[2goldfish]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

I would like to thank you for that because I never thought of it that way. And thinking of it that way, it does seem pretty psycho on CA's behalf.

However that makes me very interested in what some others think at that scenario, particularly those others who have stated many times that CA should have done something much earlier than she had (fwiw I feel KC was grown and CA couldnt and shouldnt make efforts to control her as if she were a child, that is, I feel CA did nothing wrong until she went into full liar mode.)

 

[2goldfish]

It's a scary thought bc she might have been able to get away w/it and she could have just disappeared. (Except for the fact that she was getting more attached to Tony and didn't want to leave. Plus she had blown Amy's bank acct on beer and clothes. Maybe that was going to be her escape to Cali money?)

snipped - I think that KC had reached critical mass - I dont know if it was fate or her secret conscience or what, I dont think KC could carry on with it anymore. all that stinks of subconscious STOP ME behaviour IMO.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I would like to thank you for that because I never thought of it that way. And thinking of it that way, it does seem pretty psycho on CA's behalf.

However that makes me very interested in what some others think at that scenario, particularly those others who have stated many times that CA should have done something much earlier than she had (fwiw I feel KC was grown and CA couldnt and shouldnt make efforts to control her as if she were a child, that is, I feel CA did nothing wrong until she went into full liar mode.)

Yes, I can see why CA still treated her like a child though, because KC was comfortable being totally dependent on her parents, she did not clothe or feed herself or her own child, she just sort of sub-contracted it out to CA and only resented it when it suited her... they fed off each other, CA loved being the patron saint of Martyrs.

 

[Mystic]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

great post, i've thought that CA intuitively knew something was wrong and consciously she was well aware something had happened because of the condition she found the car. (but didn't relate it to Caylee) I think that was why she didn't barge into Tony's and interogating them... she got KC out of there and demanded to see Caylee. So CA was in cover mode over whatever occured with the car but she wasn't going to link that to Caylee consciously. She only called 911 to get LE to make KC bring Caylee home... but she didn't get nor like the results that led to.

IMO if KC had blurted out what she'd done to Caylee.. no 911 calls would have ever been made and sadly we probably wouldn't have any evidence left by the time anyone caught on to the missing child.

 

[Pattymarie]

BBM
On 7/3 Cindy was distraught worrying about Caylee-hence her myspace creation!

Thursday, July 03, 2008
my caylee is missing
Current mood: distraught
She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?
Cindy may not have known Caylee was missing from KC-but Cindy definetely expresses fear for where and who is watching out for the "little angel."
Cindy knows why KC left-JEALOUSY
Cindy knows KC is capable of "lies and betrayal". (How lies and betrayal are harmless is beyond me:waitasec
Cindy knows KC is telling people "her mother is controlling her life".
Still, I agree, Cindy didn't think KC was capable of killing Caylee prior to the 911 call. However, shortly after that call and the events that followed-Cindy made the choice not to admit the truth about KC to herself-even if it meant destroying other people's reputations and personal lives!:furious:

IMO...This is enough to convict KC...forget forensics...this is proof beyond a reasonable doubt towards motive.

 

[akashana]

snipped - I think that KC had reached critical mass - I dont know if it was fate or her secret conscience or what, I dont think KC could carry on with it anymore. all that stinks of subconscious STOP ME behaviour IMO.

MY BOLD

ITA, and I think they forging of Amy's checks supports this. There is no way she could get away with this because she used her own name and was on the security cameras at the bank and Target. Amy was going to know immediately what occurred while she was in PR, and the gig was going to be up. It's like she no longer cared and was self-destructing. But some form of self-preservation kicked in and, probably abetted by Cindy, she continued with the lies to the cops. Then Baez showed up and it became the sideshow it is. But she had to know the forgeries would come to light. So why did she do it? I'd understand if it were drugs, needing to feed the monkey but we've seen absolutely no evidence of anything but casual recreational drug usage, and nothing really "hard" either. A little weed, maybe a pill or two and possibly ecstasy. Nothing to cause her to bleed her friend dry. I've always fixated on that as a really interesting part of this case. Why do the forgeries when she was bound to get caught? The last thing she needed after killing Caylee was police attention, yet she did the exact thing that would bring her under intense scrutiny by LE. Even if there was no stinking car and Cindy on her butt, there would be legal repercussions from the check caper.

Maybe that has its own thread or even needs one, but I've always wondered at the sheer idiocy of her actions there.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

You hit the nail on the head with me. CA's behavior is why I began to distrust/blame/imagine/doubt her in the first place. She seems so wacky and KC said she fears her the most. Now, I know the odds are that KC is ultimately to blame for Caylee's death, but I can't help but to distrust Cindy. She had something to do with Caylee's disappearance even if she is not directly the cause of what happened to Caylee. I don't trust her one bit. She is never honest about anything.

Noone as controlling as she is would rest contently while two people, who have always lived with her, just left never to show their faces again for a month. And we know she didn't rest contently but she pretends that she did.

Why wouldn't she say "I was a wreck when KC and Caylee were gone". As mothers, we would relate to that. Not all the pretending that it didn't bother her one bit. That's why I know there is more to the story. IMO of course.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Resp snipped



Two great and really important questions I've wondered about, too! Regarding the decomp smell the other cops seemed to ignore that first night, I can only guess they were figuring that the car had been abandoned two weeks before and had been sitting in a tow yard during which time it must have somehow picked up the cadaver smell???

I'd love to know the answer to that and even more so, the answer to how much cleaning George/Cindy/Lee might have done.

I thought they had to follow protocol. Since the perp said she could take them to the kidnapper or at least retrace her steps, they had to let it play out and follow KC's lead. They probably were highly suspicious but there wasn't a body. LE probably hoped for an explanation other than that Caylee was dead even though they knew better. I think they put one foot in front of the other. Everything takes time.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I lean toward the simplest answer to be nearest the "truth" (Occam's razor-type thinking here).

The Anthony's as a group realized the truth, that KC murdered Caylee, on that first day. The cover up began after CA's "regrettable" 911 call, because that is what families who produce these kinds of psychopaths generally DO. None of them have a mature sense of what "truth" is, they perceive like children before they mature out of magical thinking. They are retarded, never having gotten to the point that the "truth" exists outside what they want it to be.

It follows that they continue to make complete idiots out of themselves. I follow this case daily but can't find it in myself to try and psyche these retarded people out . . . other than to decide they are examples of human evil, in all it's glory. Evil protects itself from itself with a drive that is almost impossible to understand, much less rationalize.

Either you assume the Anthony's knew about Caylee's demise before OR after CA called 911 that day. Different lines of logic follow each assumption. Since we don't KNOW for sure either way, to me, the only thing that makes sense of the facts we have now is that the Anthony's had no clue. Their behavior after the 911 call is just how they always act, in all of their dealings.

Their cover up behavior makes just as much sense to me whether they knew something terribly happened to Caylee before the 911 call or not. They cover up because evil seeks to hide itself at all costs.

This is an interesting way to think about the situation. It matters to me though if the A's knew before July 15 because that would mean they were covering for KC prior to LE becoming involved. Evil is evil though.