REVISIT Does LE have enough evidence to Convict Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

[impatientredhead]

It would seem to me that if Casey planned and deliberated Caylee's death, her plan would not have been to ride around with the body in the trunk until the odor allegedly was overwhelming -- to say nothing of the alleged time period of eleven days.

If the staging of Caylee's death went wrong it may not have been the original plan, but it would still be premeditated and deliberate. If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation. Puts her in the trunk at some point and figures she will figure it out later, which she did on the 27th after she had her too close for comfort brush with George on the 24th, throws out the pathetic squirrel story on the 25th as an explanation should anyone mention the smell, and confirms getting rid of source of the death smell on the 27th.

Poor planning and execution does not equal an accident.

I have also seen several questions about an insanity plea, Baez made the following statement in his first comments to the press:

He said Anthony has undergone psychological counseling while behind bars, but mental illness is not a factor in her defense.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/19/caylee_search_hits_street.html

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation.

Quote: As for the defense trying to exclude Mothers from the jury, I could not agree more. The next best group to exclude would be women, any model will do... It would seem to me that if Casey planned and deliberated Caylee's death, her plan would not have been to ride around with the body in the trunk until the odor allegedly was overwhelming--to say nothing of the alleged time period of eleven days.


For an intentional drowning, there would have been no need for chloroform. Backyard pools are known as "silent killers" of small children. For a young child drawn to water (as Caylee reportedly was) it would be as simple as attaching the ladder--and allowing access to the backyard.

For a crime that's "planned" there are far too many glaring, clumsy, just plain stupid mistakes. For premeditation she sure didn't execute a plan w the slightest coherence nor could she concoct one single story of remote credibility that could possibly hang together--but rather a series of poorly thought out, indecisive, spur-of-the-moment compulsive acts, followed by jumbled story after story. All of which have made me (a mother) think accident (and it's a small club). In many tragic cases but particularly under age four, in a home where there just happens to be a swimming pool, neglect alone--poor supervision, and inattentiveness--can easily cause a toddler's death. What could have happened there at that house in the short span of 60 minutes? And if she was planning to do something, why choose this location where she might be discovered by one of her family members popping in? To further risk borrowing a shovel from a neighbor (come on) is yet another indication this was likely not planned. Why take such a risk when she could have secured one beforehand w/out alerting neighbor. Besides, if you were planning a crime there would more than likely be IMO during the commission of that crime a consciousness of guilt, ie one would be aware from that point forth that everything--from web searches and postings on social networking sites, to phone calls and text messages; from store purchases and stolen checks, to traffic and surveillance cams--is traceable and will all lead back to you. And for the record--having never done the job, men are among the harshest critics of mothers. Might wanna rethink that jury pool. JMHO.

 

[Wudge]

If the staging of Caylee's death went wrong it may not have been the original plan, but it would still be premeditated and deliberate. If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation. Puts her in the trunk at some point and figures she will figure it out later, which she did on the 27th after she had her too close for comfort brush with George on the 24th, throws out the pathetic squirrel story on the 25th as an explanation should anyone mention the smell, and confirms getting rid of source of the death smell on the 27th.

Poor planning and execution does not equal an accident.

I have also seen several questions about an insanity plea, Baez made the following statement in his first comments to the press:

He said Anthony has undergone psychological counseling while behind bars, but mental illness is not a factor in her defense.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/19/caylee_search_hits_street.html

Prosecutors would need evidence to prove that Caylee's body decayed in the trunk of Casey's car because of poor planning and execution of her premeditated (planned and deliberated) murder of Caylee. What evidence do prosecutors have that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Caylee's body stank up her trunk because of alleged poor planning and execution?

 

[Wudge]

Quote: If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation.

Quote: As for the defense trying to exclude Mothers from the jury, I could not agree more. The next best group to exclude would be women, any model will do... It would seem to me that if Casey planned and deliberated Caylee's death, her plan would not have been to ride around with the body in the trunk until the odor allegedly was overwhelming--to say nothing of the alleged time period of eleven days.


For an intentional drowning, there would have been no need for chloroform. Backyard pools are known as "silent killers" of small children. For a young child drawn to water (as Caylee reportedly was) it would be as simple as attaching the ladder--and allowing access to the backyard.

For a crime that's "planned" there are far too many glaring, clumsy, just plain stupid mistakes. For premeditation she sure didn't execute a plan w the slightest coherence nor could she concoct one single story of remote credibility that could possibly hang together--but rather a series of poorly thought out, indecisive, spur-of-the-moment compulsive acts, followed by jumbled story after story. All of which have made me (a mother) think accident (and it's a small club). In many tragic cases but particularly under age four, in a home where there just happens to be a swimming pool, neglect alone--poor supervision, and inattentiveness--can easily cause a toddler's death. What could have happened there at that house in the short span of 60 minutes? And if she was planning to do something, why choose this location where she might be discovered by one of her family members popping in? To further risk borrowing a shovel from a neighbor (come on) is yet another indication this was likely not planned. Why take such a risk when she could have secured one beforehand w/out alerting neighbor.

SNIP

JMHO.

This is the credited response.

 

[Pink Panther]

Quote: If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation.

Quote: As for the defense trying to exclude Mothers from the jury, I could not agree more. The next best group to exclude would be women, any model will do... It would seem to me that if Casey planned and deliberated Caylee's death, her plan would not have been to ride around with the body in the trunk until the odor allegedly was overwhelming--to say nothing of the alleged time period of eleven days.


For an intentional drowning, there would have been no need for chloroform. Backyard pools are known as "silent killers" of small children. For a young child drawn to water (as Caylee reportedly was) it would be as simple as attaching the ladder--and allowing access to the backyard.

For a crime that's "planned" there are far too many glaring, clumsy, just plain stupid mistakes. For premeditation she sure didn't execute a plan w the slightest coherence nor could she concoct one single story of remote credibility that could possibly hang together--but rather a series of poorly thought out, indecisive, spur-of-the-moment compulsive acts, followed by jumbled story after story. All of which have made me (a mother) think accident (and it's a small club). In many tragic cases but particularly under age four, in a home where there just happens to be a swimming pool, neglect alone--poor supervision, and inattentiveness--can easily cause a toddler's death. What could have happened there at that house in the short span of 60 minutes? And if she was planning to do something, why choose this location where she might be discovered by one of her family members popping in? To further risk borrowing a shovel from a neighbor (come on) is yet another indication this was likely not planned. Why take such a risk when she could have secured one beforehand w/out alerting neighbor. Besides, if you were planning a crime there would more than likely be IMO during the commission of that crime a consciousness of guilt, ie one would be aware from that point forth that everything--from web searches and postings on social networking sites, to phone calls and text messages; from store purchases and stolen checks, to traffic and surveillance cams--is traceable and will all lead back to you. And for the record--having never done the job, men are among the harshest critics of mothers. Might wanna rethink that jury pool. JMHO.

"Planned" does not = smoothly executed. Also, there is not an expectation of a well executed plan for a determination of premeditation.

 

[Wudge]

"Planned" does not = smoothly executed. Also, there is not an expectation of a well executed plan for a determination of premeditation.

What proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey planned to murder Caylee but did not "smoothly execute" her plan?

 

[tiredofthis]

Quote: If she chloroformed her with the plan to drown her in the pool with no resistance, staging an accidental death (that would torment Cindy until the end of time) but she died from the chloroform before she could get her into the water... that would leave her with a body and an unexplainable situation.

Quote: As for the defense trying to exclude Mothers from the jury, I could not agree more. The next best group to exclude would be women, any model will do... It would seem to me that if Casey planned and deliberated Caylee's death, her plan would not have been to ride around with the body in the trunk until the odor allegedly was overwhelming--to say nothing of the alleged time period of eleven days.


For an intentional drowning, there would have been no need for chloroform. Backyard pools are known as "silent killers" of small children. For a young child drawn to water (as Caylee reportedly was) it would be as simple as attaching the ladder--and allowing access to the backyard.

For a crime that's "planned" there are far too many glaring, clumsy, just plain stupid mistakes. For premeditation she sure didn't execute a plan w the slightest coherence nor could she concoct one single story of remote credibility that could possibly hang together--but rather a series of poorly thought out, indecisive, spur-of-the-moment compulsive acts, followed by jumbled story after story. All of which have made me (a mother) think accident (and it's a small club). In many tragic cases but particularly under age four, in a home where there just happens to be a swimming pool, neglect alone--poor supervision, and inattentiveness--can easily cause a toddler's death. What could have happened there at that house in the short span of 60 minutes? And if she was planning to do something, why choose this location where she might be discovered by one of her family members popping in? To further risk borrowing a shovel from a neighbor (come on) is yet another indication this was likely not planned. Why take such a risk when she could have secured one beforehand w/out alerting neighbor. Besides, if you were planning a crime there would more than likely be IMO during the commission of that crime a consciousness of guilt, ie one would be aware from that point forth that everything--from web searches and postings on social networking sites, to phone calls and text messages; from store purchases and stolen checks, to traffic and surveillance cams--is traceable and will all lead back to you. And for the record--having never done the job, men are among the harshest critics of mothers. Might wanna rethink that jury pool. JMHO.

Correct me, if I am wrong, but premeditation can happen in an instant. If you think about it and then do it, it is premeditation. Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

I believe that KC left the house in a fit of rage on June 15th. While she was in that red hot haze of anger and not thinking clearly, she decided to kill the person who meant the most to CA. Caylee.

Do I think that KC may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep? Absolutely. But I think that it only took a moment for KC to go over the edge and decide to kill her.

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

Do I think that KC may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep? Absolutely. But I think that it only took a moment for KC to go over the edge and decide to kill her.

You can not think (absolutely) that "Casey may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep", but then, without any evidence, simply decide that in an instant Casey went over the edge and murdered Casey.

You have expressed "reasonable doubt".


(as for in an instant, see post #259)

 

[tiredofthis]

You can not think (absolutely) that "Casey may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep", but then, without any evidence, simply decide that in an instant Casey went over the edge and murdered Casey.

You have expressed "reasonable doubt".


(as for in an instant, see post #259)

Ok. I'm not trying the case here, I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not implying that LE has the evidence to prove my theory, it is just what I believe. This doesn't mean that my theory would hold up in court, it more than likely would not, but a person can believe something and not have the evidence to back it up.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: I believe that KC left the house in a fit of rage on June 15th. While she was in that red hot haze of anger and not thinking clearly, she decided to kill the person who meant the most to CA. Caylee.

Do I think that KC may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep? Absolutely. But I think that it only took a moment for KC to go over the edge and decide to kill her.

There is IMO still discernable differences between indications of a poorly executed while presumably deliberate act--and a clumsy in-credible cover-up following what might still be presumed to have been an accident. IMO there's a suggestion here of the latter. Some have countered, or account for, this by claiming KC simply isn't that "smart." I beg to differ. The entirety of KC's lies don't reveal a lack of intelligence, rather someone whose wheels are constanly turning--but with the distinct absence of any plan. As for offing Caylee on the night of June 15, there is a sighting, by GA of both KC, and Caylee alive and well, on the am of June 16. Despite his denial GA's otherwise cooperated on an official level w/ LE--yet this would entail his having, from very early on, been complicit or conspired to assist w/ cover-up by determining this splitting of hairs, over a period of hours, would one day far down the road somehow exculpate his daughter.

Body Farm report indicates it found compounds consistent w/ decomp having taken place in "anaerobic" conditions, ie w/out oxygen. From this one may infer or at least allow the possibility that Caylee died elsewhere, at a location other than inside trunk, after which her remains were encased or sealed w/in some type of airtight plastic bag, eg (which we may conclude must have later broken allowing fluids to escape ie seep into trunk). It therefore stands to reason that Caylee's remains may not have been placed inside trunk until after she was deceased, a period following which her remains were likely transported. The fact the Body Farm estimated decomp present to be that of 2.6 days gives LE a further indication of when and for how long those remains were present inside the trunk. But all of which is more consistent w/ KC having left Caylee's remains in backyard (from which it might also be inferred is where death more likely occurred) and until reportedly borrowing shovel approx. two days later. All of which creates for me reasonable doubt at least as far as theories Caylee was alive when placed in trunk IMO

 

[JBean]

Quote: I believe that KC left the house in a fit of rage on June 15th. While she was in that red hot haze of anger and not thinking clearly, she decided to kill the person who meant the most to CA. Caylee.

Do I think that KC may have been using chloroform to make Caylee go to sleep? Absolutely. But I think that it only took a moment for KC to go over the edge and decide to kill her.

There is IMO still discernable differences between indications of a poorly executed while presumably deliberate act--and a clumsy in-credible cover-up following what might still be presumed to have been an accident. IMO there's a suggestion here of the latter. Some have countered, or account for, this by claiming KC simply isn't that "smart." I beg to differ. The entirety of KC's lies don't reveal a lack of intelligence, rather someone whose wheels are constanly turning--but with the distinct absence of any plan. As for offing Caylee on the night of June 15, there is a sighting, by GA of both KC, and Caylee alive and well, on the am of June 16. Despite his denial GA's otherwise cooperated on an official level w/ LE--yet this would entail his having, from very early on, been complicit or conspired to assist w/ cover-up by determining this splitting of hairs, over a period of hours, would one day far down the road somehow exculpate his daughter.

Body Farm report indicates it found compounds consistent w/ decomp having taken place in "anaerobic" conditions, ie w/out oxygen. From this one may infer or at least allow the possibility that Caylee died elsewhere, at a location other than inside trunk, after which her remains were encased or sealed w/in some type of airtight plastic bag, eg (which we may conclude must have later broken allowing fluids to escape ie seep into trunk). It therefore stands to reason that Caylee's remains may not have been placed inside trunk until after she was deceased, a period following which her remains were likely transported. The fact the Body Farm estimated decomp present to be that of 2.6 days gives LE a further indication of when and for how long those remains were present inside the trunk. But all of which is more consistent w/ KC having left Caylee's remains in backyard (from which it might also be inferred is where death more likely occurred) and until reportedly borrowing shovel approx. two days later. All of which creates for me reasonable doubt at least as far as theories Caylee was alive when placed in trunk IMO

I am leaning towards a passive aggressive action by KC as opposed to an accident. By that I mean something that didn't kill her directly, but rather indirectly. For example, if you set a toddler next to a pool and you go inside and take a shower, you aren't really murdering the child when she falls into the pool. But you left the child with that outcome in mind. or handing your child a bottle of poison and leaving the room. This would be a way to kill your own child at an arm's length and still be able to say, I did not kill her. "She was fine when I left her." <-ETA TO CLARIFY I mean in KC's mind not in a legal sense at all.
I do not think GA is a party to it, with the exceptions of possibly holding back information because of just being unsure of what was going on. I think there was certainly a point where GA genuinely believed what his daughter was saying; with that in mind he probably wanted to be careful what seemingly innocent details he might reveal. Paranoia of sorts and completely understandable.
I think Caylee was placed in the trunk and left there for a time after death then moved once to a dumpster. I think she was in some dumpster bcause then KC can also say easily that she does not know where she is in a KC truthful backwards kind of way.

I have often thought that she may have had a plan in mind that totally didn't work which is why this is all so disjointed and does not connect. She wanted so bad to look at those Universal surveillance tapes to look for Caylee and ZFG. I wonder if she did string a plan together that included leaving clues that no one caught even though she tried to lead them there.

as always jmho.

 

[shotzie]

I think the latest evidence that FBI has put out is just a carrot dangling..I believe they are holding so much back as they should..

THe public doesn't need to know everything. The Prosecution needs to keep the damning evidence close to the vest til the trial.

For poster's that think this isn't enough evidence I believe we will all have a big surprise coming thru the trial.. I think it will be "Oh My God!!":clap:

I have total faith in LE. Casey is going down, :behindbarhoping she brings her family with her.:woohoo:
p.s. she will also get "Guilty Charge" for the fraud and theft charges..that's a few years..an lying to the police..

 

[Brini]

Pretty sure that it's illegal to put your kid to sleep with chloroform.

As NG reminds us, that makes it felony murder, if there is a death.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: I am leaning towards a passive aggressive action by KC as opposed to an accident. By that I mean something that didn't kill her directly, but rather indirectly. For example, if you set a toddler next to a pool and you go inside and take a shower, you aren't really murdering the child when she falls into the pool. But you left the child with that outcome in mind. or handing your child a bottle of poison and leaving the room. This would be a way to kill your own child at an arm's length and still be able to say, I did not kill her. "She was fine when I left her."
I do not think GA is a party to it, with the exceptions of possibly holding back information because of just being unsure of what was going on. I think there was certainly a point where GA genuinely believed what his daughter was saying; with that in mind he probably wanted to be careful what seemingly innocent details he might reveal. Paranoia of sorts and completely understandable.
I think Caylee was placed in the trunk and left there for a time after death then moved once to a dumpster. I think she was in some dumpster bcause then KC can also say easily that she does not know where she is in a KC truthful backwards kind of way.
I have often thought that she may have had a plan in mind that totally didn't work which is why this is all so disjointed and does not connect. She wanted so bad to look at those Universal surveillance tapes to look for Caylee and ZFG. I wonder if she did string a plan together that included leaving clues that no one caught even though she tried to lead them there.

But she hasn't said this, nor anything close to it. It's moot what private inner wranglings one may go through in such a scheme, or how one achieves a death of which one has no intention of ever admitting knowledge. (Besides, I guess you missed Post #201 and discussion of negligence vs culpable negligence in which it was established that such gross and flagrant examples of failure to provide ordinary care--even on a subconscious level--would clearly, at a minimum, constitute manslaughter). If, desiring to be utterly free of Caylee (and rather eg than simply opting to grant custody of Caylee to her parents) KC's plan had instead been to eliminate Caylee, she could indeed have staged just such a scenario and stuck to any of a number of (similarly difficult to disprove) stories ie "I have no idea how, or by whom, that gate was opened" or, "I put her down for a nap, and fell asleep--Caylee must have woken up again and snuck outside!" all while playing the grieving mother to the hilt. Yet KC's lies are not only disorganized, they originate from inception--ie go all the way back to the nature of her daughter's disappearance. People's actions can at times be ascribed to all manner of subconscious motives, a possibility which I've considered. The origin of KC's lies in this case begin w/ her denying any knowledge of her child's death whatsoever--vs deluding herself or others as to it's specific cause. It would certainly have been much simpler to create, and infinitely harder to disprove, a scenario such as the ones above in an effort to escape simply legal culpability. Why with this option available to her then would somone nevertheless choose to fabricate and maintain such a wildly fantastic, Swiss-cheese-piece-of kidnapping scenario? IMO there is only one apparent explanation why, if she could have possibly admitted to, or feigned, an accident, that KC would rather stand today accused of pre-meditated murder and that is because it is not legal culpability of which KC's afraid. It is her mother's unforgiveness, and acknowledging the fulfillment of her mother's constant accusations and condemnation of KC's unfit mothering. For this, KC could never make restitution. Btw it's more likely IMO that KC, in requesting to view Universal surveillance, is simply at that point still attempting to make seem more credible all the lies fed to others during this time ("Caylee's w/ the nanny again today at ___themepark") or in hopes of still fleshing out fantasies re her "searching for (a living, breathing) Caylee," or on-again-off-again fairytales of employment, to LE. Whether premeditated, culpable, or inculpable negligence however, it remains significant that wherever a "kidnapping" is alleged, particularly where time can be allowed to pass (and w/ the aid of a little smoke and mirrors), this "slight of hand" can of course position one, if and when remains are found, to shift blame. Not surprisingly even CA herself has already attempted to do just this when accusing the media, public and LE of "putting Caylee in a coffin" whenever LE won't waste further time pursuing bogus "tips" that have led nowhere or "leads" to a living Caylee prove futile... oy... JMHO

 

[Brini]

The definition of "premeditation" is somewhat ambiguous and can easily be misleading. The legal definition of "premeditation" is with planning or deliberation. However, the amount of time needed for premeditation, regarding any act, depends on the person and the circumstances. After forming intent, the time must be long enough to act, and it must also allow for the person to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the act.

As far as I know, you must have prior planning to have premeditation. Hence, in this case that lacks: a clear and unyielding motive, a place of death, a time of death, a cause of death, the mechanics of death, the circumstances surrounding the death, a confession and an eyewitness, then unless the words came from the defendant's mouth premeditation would appear not likely be proven to have existed for an instant or otherwise.

Additionally, the words in the legal definition are deliberation and planning. The definition for both of those words indicates that this is not an "instant" process. Although the definition states that it depends on the circumstances and the person and indicates that it could be "instantaneous", those two words indicate that it can not be so.

Still, the key thing is to prove it in court, and that means the prosecutors must prove deliberation and planning beyond a reasonable doubt.

As for the defense trying to exclude Mothers from the jury, I could not agree more. The next best group to exclude would be women, any model will do.

Well, how about excluding fathers?

How about limiting to unmarried males?

 

[JBean]

But she hasn't said this, nor anything close to it. It's moot what private inner wranglings one may go through in such instances, or how one achieves a death of which one has no intention of ever admitting knowledge. (Besides, I guess you missed Post #201 and discussion of negligence vs culpable negligence in which it was established that such gross and flagrant examples of failure to provide ordinary care--even on a subconscious level--would clearly, at a minimum, constitute manslaughter). If, wanting to be utterly free of Caylee (rather than simply opting to grant parents custody of Caylee eg) KC's plan had instead been to eliminate Caylee, she could indeed have staged just such a scenario and stuck to any of a number of (similarly difficult to disprove) stories ie "I have no idea how, or by whom, that gate was opened" or, "I put her down for a nap, and fell asleep--Caylee must have woken up again and snuck outside!" all while playing the grieving mother to the hilt. Yet KC's lies are not only disorganized, they originate from inception--ie go all the way back to the nature of her daughter's disappearance. People's actions can at times be ascribed to all manner of subconscious motives, a possibility which I've considered. The origin of KC's lies however begin w/ her denying any knowledge of her child's death whatsoever--vs deluding herself or others as to it's specific cause. Btw it's more likely IMO that KC, in requesting to view Universal surveillance, is simply at that point still attempting to make seem more credible all the lies fed to others during this time ("Caylee's w/ the nanny at the themeparks") and/or in hopes of still fleshing out fantasies re searching for Caylee, or fairytales of employment, to LE. Whether premeditated or accidental negligence, however, it remains significant IMO that whenever "kidnapping" is alleged, particularly where time can be allowed to pass and w/ the aid of a little smoke and mirrors, this "slight of hand" can of course position one, if and when remains are found, to shift blame. Even CA herself has incredibly already attempted to do this when accusing the media, public and LE of "putting Caylee in a coffin" whenever bogus "tips" lead nowhere, or "leads" to a living Caylee prove futile... oy... JMHO

OMG Kiki I wasn't implying this was a defense or that it wouldn't be manslaughter or similar. I wouldn't have to read a post to know that. My post was referring specifically to her inner wranglings and I agree wiht most of your post.

 

[kiki the parrot]

OMG Kiki I wasn't implying this was a defense or that it wouldn't be manslaughter or similar. I wouldn't have to read a post to know that. My post was referring specifically to her inner wranglings and I agree wiht most of your post.

Just FYI while you were responding, my post was "abridged" or considerably amended including but not limited to following (probably most important) point, takes me awhile to get there lol: It would certainly have been much simpler to create and infinitely harder to disprove a scenario such as the ones above in an effort to escape simply legal culpability. Why, with this option available would somone nevertheless choose to fabricate and maintain such a wildly fantastic, Swiss-cheesy-piece-of kidnapping scenario? IMO there is only one apparent explanation why--if she could have possibly admitted to or feigned an accident--that KC would rather stand today accused of pre-meditated murder and that is because it is not legal culpability of which KC's afraid. It's her mother's unforgiveness and having to acknowledge the fulfillment of her mother's constant accusations and condemnation of KC's unfit mothering. For this, KC could never make restitution. Anyway, sorry if I offended, I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence or be flip I was mostly agreeing that people in fact do have many and varied subconscious motives--and that these are some of the ones I speculate may be behind her puzzling actions. JMO

 

[NewsHound22]

That's false. It was the reverse. Other than the location of the bodies, everything the media had portrayed as inculpatory evidence prior to the start of the trial was revealed to be mythology during the trial. At the end of the trial, all prosecutors had for clear and unyielding inculpatory evidence was the location of the bodies, from which premeditation cannot be discerned.

People didn't like Scott's behavior, that not inculpatory evidence. People don't like Casey's behavior. That's not inculpatory evidence.

After Laci disappeared, Scott made false statements. That's not inculpatory evidence. After Caylee disappeared, Casey made false statements. That's not inculpatory evidence.

Scott allegedly showed consciousness of guilt. That's not inculpatory evidence. Casey allegedly showed consciousness of guilt. That's not inculpatory evidence.

A dog's nose allegedly says something was fishy in the Peterson case. That's not inculpatory evidence. A dog's nose allegedly says something is fishy in this case. That's not inculpatory evidence.

All of the above represents corroborative evidence. Corroborative evidence is bun. Where's the beef?

SCOTT'S ON DEATH ROW! THATS THE BEEF.:furious:

 

[JBean]

Just FYI while you were responding, my post was "abridged" or considerably amended including but not limited to following (probably most important) point, takes me awhile to get there lol: It would certainly have been much simpler to create and infinitely harder to disprove a scenario such as the ones above in an effort to escape simply legal culpability. Why, with this option available would somone nevertheless choose to fabricate and maintain such a wildly fantastic, Swiss-cheesy-piece-of kidnapping scenario? IMO there is only one apparent explanation why--if she could have possibly admitted to or feigned an accident--that KC would rather stand today accused of pre-meditated murder and that is because it is not legal culpability of which KC's afraid. It's her mother's unforgiveness and having to acknowledge the fulfillment of her mother's constant accusations and condemnation of KC's unfit mothering. For this, KC could never make restitution. Anyway, sorry if I offended, I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence or be flip I was mostly agreeing that people in fact do have many and varied subconscious motives--and that these are some of the ones I speculate may be behind her puzzling actions. JMO

I have maintained that exact position as well.
IMO, that is what drives her to deny any responsibility, more so than the legal ramifications. First and foremost she would not want to have to admit to her mother that she was right about KC's own inability to properly protect the child from harm on any level. I think KC would rather hang than have to let her mom be right and have that over her.
You didn't offend me at all, we were just talking about 2 completely different things.

 

[CaliKid]

Lately I have been wondering about why KC, if she is so afraid of her mom's reaction, would've called Cindy, George and others repeatedly on the 16th, especially if something had happened to Caylee. But I truly do believe KC either killed her daughter on purpose or found her dead in the trunk and was going to try to get her parents to believe she drowned.