REVISIT Does LE have enough evidence to Convict Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

[Chezhire]

Experience has taught me that if your client is a women -- especially a decent looking woman -- it is usually best to try and stock the jury with men, all else being equal.

Depending on the charges, this may not hold true, but I really think there is a lot to the legendary cattiness between women that carries over to trials.

What expereince are you referencing?

...course, no response may have been "the response," and if no response is forthcoming this time, I won't feel the need to bump it again.

 

[Chezhire]

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Henry VI (Pt. 2), Act IV, Scene II).

JK...obviously I have nothing against lawyers....

:blowkiss: I have a magnet with that quotation on it - and it actually means, as is always the case with Shakespeare, so many many things...

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Incorrect. I again point out that my earlier post was based upon the assumption that the opposing counsel MAKES the appropriate objection to the entire transcript being introduced into evidence. If you go reread my post, # 316 & 323, re: Article 801, it says "...unless the prosecution fails to object and/or the judge incorrectly rules upon said objection..." I am now presuming that counsel in Peterson's trial forgot to object, thus the evidence was admitted wihout any objection.

Tactically, an attorney should never intend rely upon his opponent making a mistake (in this case, failing to object) to carry his case for his client.


That exception to the hearsay rule is only applicable if the party trying to use the taped interview is trying to use it against the opposing party as an admission by their opposing party. A party cannot rely upon that exception to introduce its own statements into evidence, as that usage would be for the sole purpose of proving the truth of the matters asserted - which is exactly what the rule was enacted to prohibit in the first place. Make sense?

Wudge was trying to suggest that a party defendant can simply introduce the entirety of that party defendant's taped interview into evidence while the investigating officer is testifying as a tactical move (in lieu of the party defendant testifying) to "get the defendant's story out before the jury without having to testify," which would be subject to a judicially sustainable hearsay objection.

In a trial, the use of a taped interview with the criminal defendant cannot be introduced into evidence by the criminal defendant as evidence (regardless of when the defense attorney tries to have it admitted during the trial) UNLESS the prosecution's witnesses mis-state or improperly recounts/quotes what the defendant said (which is what I said in my original posts, #316 & 323,) in which case the stateent is being used for impeachment purposes, which is typically allowable under the rules of evidence. Again, a FL legal eagle could probably clarify what exactly FL allows...

Great job, Chez.

Yes you use those exceptions against the other side. I do believe we could call it a statement against penal interest as well but to introduce our own stuff that way is too self-serving and will not happen.

Excellent post.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

:waitasec: JMO: Documents I want to read (audio?) AH's 1st transcript she talks @ in her 2nd transcript & many others that will prove to be quite telling.

The Target video from the trip KC :behindbar & AH went to by the gas can @ June 30? What happened to that gas can?? :clap::crazy::furious::behindbar Nothings been said @ that anywhere!!

When this evidence is handed over I sure hope it is released under FL Sunshine Law!!!

THIS WILL REALLY HELP TO FILL IN THE MISSING PUZZLE PIECES..TIMELINE ETC.!!!!:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Yes I believe they do..LE moved up the trial I think that is very telling! There so much that hasn't been released to the public...

 

[Themis]

Great job, Chez.

Yes you use those exceptions against the other side. I do believe we could call it a statement against penal interest as well but to introduce our own stuff that way is too self-serving and will not happen.

Excellent post.

You guys are holding your own. I'll keep a lookout at the door for the mods.

 

[Themis]

After the defense presents a reasonable explanation for Casey lying about Caylee being kidnapped, and after they present a reasonable explanation for why she didn't report her missing, and after they present a reasonable story about what actually happened to Casey - that's when I'll consider believing the insecticide story.

... and after the defense presents some admissible evidence to back up their pie-in-the-sky theories. If defense wants to present a theory it needs evidentiary support as well.

 

[LeLe1953]

... and after the defense presents some admissible evidence to back up their pie-in-the-sky theories. If defense wants to present a theory it needs evidentiary support as well.

:clap::clap: And great job lbeing the look out. Isn't discussion good, such a free exchange of information. We have lawyers, students, wanna be lawyers, pretend lawyers and then just us plain ol lay folks.

From what I have seen so far, there is just no way to get around the evidence, esp KC not reporting her child missing for 31 days. Then you have all the Anthony's own words.

The prosecution is going to hit it out of the ball park.

 

[Themis]

Thank you.

Interesting discussion.

 

[natsound]

"Absolutely!"

TXredhead, I LOVE your avatar!

That said, ugh... I'm the skeptic again.

1. LP says oly 25% of what police have has been released. What would LE's motivation be to release the parts of evidence they already have? Why would they want this speculation circus to go on if they have a couple of smoking guns? Why release anything at all? Some may argue that they're pushing the envelope, hoping KC will snap, but I don't see why they would release all of these police interrogations with CA and GA.. embarrass them to death when PD could really use their cooperation.

2. Although the defense's list of witnesses is small, it's the dream team. If there is more forensic evidence to come out, these guys will refute it up and down, and it may all hinge on that.

3. Honestly, given the evidence that's out there now, I see proof that Caylee is deceased and she was in the trunk of the car KC was driving, and KC has lied all over the place, but I see no strong evidence that she murdered the child. I BELIEVE the child died either at KC's hands or by KC's neglect, but I'm not convinced of murder.

 

[Pink Panther]

Maggots, maggots, maggots! Where are those pesky maggots???

 

[natsound]

Maggots, maggots, maggots! Where are those pesky maggots???

Oh yes. Those maggots will provide further proof Caylee is dead, and perhaps the date of death. Anything beyond that? They won't have KC's signature on them.

 

[Indigo]

Oh yes. Those maggots will provide further proof Caylee is dead, and perhaps the date of death. Anything beyond that? They won't have KC's signature on them.

Could this be the evidence that was referred to as the evidence jurors should never have to see? It's highly probably that Caylee's mtDNA was found upon dissection of these maggots. The size and species of the maggots would indicate TOD:

"...In this study we demonstrate that mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequence data can be obtained from the dissected gut of a maggot that had fed on human tissue. These data can be used to identify both the human corpse upon which the maggot had been feeding and the species of the maggot itself."


http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/3655.htm

Maggot species, growth rate and detemining TOD:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/08/18/1176094.htm

 

[kiki the parrot]

Could this be the evidence that was referred to as the evidence jurors should never have to see? It's highly probably that Caylee's mtDNA was found upon dissection of these maggots. The size and species of the maggots would indicate TOD:

"...In this study we demonstrate that mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequence data can be obtained from the dissected gut of a maggot that had fed on human tissue. These data can be used to identify both the human corpse upon which the maggot had been feeding and the species of the maggot itself."


http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/3655.htm

Maggot species, growth rate and detemining TOD:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/08/18/1176094.htm

I do not have the stomach to follow the link but I have enough of a brain to know this science is going to come into play--and rock the courtroom out of it's seats. If the defense doesn't want the air samples coming in, the jurors will still get a shocking dose of reality. Eeeesh, but TG for the science behind these disgusting larvae. JMO

 

[JWG]

I believe that the information that has been released was done so under Florida's Sunshine Law. In this case, they have released information that they have presented in court, to the grand jury, or turned over to defense as part of discovery.

IMO, the evidence they have presented thus far has been the absolute minimum they felt was necessary in order to get an indictment. The burden of proof with a grand jury is much lower than at trial. Why show your hand early if it is not necessary.

We will only see new material between now and trial as part of the discovery process.

The motions to be ruled on this week may or may not produce more useful information. In the motion to produce reports and communications with Oak Ridge, the request is very narrow - it focuses only on the odor analysis.

Another motion requests all copies of crime scene investigations and all related documentation, including photographs. Once turned over to the defense I believe it falls under the Sunshine Law and can be published. However, I think a successful ruling on the gag order (successful to the prosecution) can keep it under wraps. I don't know for certain and it would be good if someone with a law background familiar with the Florida Law could weigh in.

 

[LI_Mom]

I think the defense made a monumental mistake in claiming Casey has 'reasons' for NOT telling LE the truth & we can only hear this at her trial.

I can think of nothing even remotely logical that would make it unsafe for Caylee if Casey told the truth BEFORE the trial but it would be safe DURING the trial.

Obviously they KNOW Caylee is deceased or they wouldn't have her sitting in jail perfectly willing to risk Caylee's life AFTER the trial.

I think their whole case will consist of: Prove she's dead. Prove Casey did it. Prove it was intentional.

Casey is toast. I think Baez would have come up with a better game plan IF it was an accidental death.

 

[waiting4change]

I voted unsure, but here is to hoping. I believe that there is enough evidence, but just because I believe that doesn't mean that everyone does.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

I think the defense made a monumental mistake in claiming Casey has 'reasons' for NOT telling LE the truth & we can only hear this at her trial.
I can think of nothing even remotely logical that would make it unsafe for Caylee if Casey told the truth BEFORE the trial but it would be safe DURING the trial.

Obviously they KNOW Caylee is deceased or they wouldn't have her sitting in jail perfectly willing to risk Caylee's life AFTER the trial.

I think their whole case will consist of: Prove she's dead. Prove Casey did it. Prove it was intentional.

Casey is toast. I think Baez would have come up with a better game plan IF it was an accidental death.

ITA :clap: That is the difference between a seasoned defense attorney and Baez.

 

[LI_Mom]

ITA :clap: That is the difference between a seasoned defense attorney and Baez.

Seasoned? ha

This guy is behaving as if this is just some minor DUI incident.... caught driving UI and nothing more.

I wouldn't want this guy defending me for jay walking!!!!


But I think Casey likes him BECAUSE she knows her parents don't approve & I think this is just one more way for her to show the world how she doesn't care about their rules or their logic.

She's committing a form of suicide, imo. And Baez is helping her pull the trigger.

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Seasoned? ha

This guy is behaving as if this is just some minor DUI incident.... caught driving UI and nothing more.

I wouldn't want this guy defending me for jay walking!!!!


But I think Casey likes him BECAUSE she knows her parents don't approve & I think this is just one more way for her to show the world how she doesn't care about their rules or their logic.

She's committing a form of suicide, imo. And Baez is helping her pull the trigger.

I agree. She also likes Baez because, IMHO because he isn't smart or experienced enough to tell her that her that story will not work. He is her Yes-Man and he loves the Kool-aid.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I agree. She also likes Baez because, IMHO because he isn't smart or experienced enough to tell her that her that story will not work. He is her Yes-Man and he loves the Kool-aid.

Actually, in order to conduct his practice ethically, he would have to function as somewhat of a yes-man. I say this because, ultimately, it is going to be the defendant's call as to whether or not she testifies, makes a deal, and it's her decision on many things which can turn the tide of the case.

The problem appears to be that in such a high stakes case, and even in the aforementioned jaywalking, it is Baez's job, any defense counsel, to make everything , make all options and possible outcomes, consequences as CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, so that the defendant always makes the best decision that could be made for whatever the circumstances might be.
Meanwhile while the defendant is guided in these wise decisions, counsel would be filing spellbinding legally brilliant pretrial motions.
Now since it is a potential death case, I would expect these legal maneuvers to be multiplied and magnified. Or with the jaywalking, what? $25.00 fine?...I'd expect the same kind of sage delivery of law since he holds himself out as defender of the "high-profile."
If one wants to be in demand as a professional, one should focus on doing that actual profession. Riding the wake of somebody accused of murder is not his best course.
Every case for him should be an effort of 110% of his ability with an attitude going in that it is his life on the line!
I not seeing too much of this.
jmo