Rhornsby Legal Q&A #3 Relevant to the Anthony Case

[The World According]

Not a really fair answer since Morgan would get 1/3 of the award settlement of a civil suit....are you saying Baez is getting 1/3 of whatever Casey makes off this case? Because that would open a whole new can of worms?

Before the national and international exposure this case has given him he was a unknown guy who iirc had some back due child support history, had done some work for Lexis Nexis (note their logo on the umbrella he uses to shield Casey from the reporters in her infamous "Get me the f outta here" photo ), had VERY LIMITED TRIAL EXPERIENCE, one murder case he lost, didn't he even have a couple tries at even passing the bar, didn't he already in this young career have bar complaints too.... his career was off to a rocky start, at best.

Now, he has FREE, CONSTANT, local exposure, he has been invited on every national and cable TV news/talk show to discuss the case, that kind of national attention one cannot buy. The case indeed is even covered internationally. Now everybody knows his name. Baez sees himself as the first important Hispanic lawyer of our time. That is not my guess. He has made public comments that indeed he takes the seriousness of his being the first Hispanic to handle a high profile case and what it means ( how he conducts himself) to all of the Hispanics that come after him. So he is getting paid and will be paid well into the future by this exposure. Indeed his business has increased times ten. Hold on to your seat, he has even been invited to teach. You see how this works? That is the parallel Mr. Hornsby is making about how Baez is getting paid being the same as how Morgan and Mitnick are being paid, the media exposure. One would not be able to put a price tag on how very, very much has gone on, for over a year now, and the trial is still likely a year away. It is perpetual and lucrative in real and imagined ways. If I am remembering his past incorrectly, please someone correct me. I could be, it is my recollection from what I read about him very early on and I remember thinking at the time, this case will change this guy's life. Indeed it has.

I remember OJ's lawyer ,Yale Galanter, calling up his lawyer buddy, Gabe ,and asking something to the effect of...... hey, I can't pay you, but do you wanna be famous. Next thing you know we see buddy Gabe at the defense table during the robbery trial. It is actually not uncommon for this to happen in high profile cases I surmise from that alone.

my opinion only

 

[rhornsby]

Not a really fair answer since Morgan would get 1/3 of the award settlement of a civil suit....are you saying Baez is getting 1/3 of whatever Casey makes off this case? Because that would open a whole new can of worms?

Well, if on July 17, 2008 E! would have quoted "High-profile Florida criminal attorney Jose Baez" in any story - you would have said Jose Who?

But by November 30, 2009 when E! quoted "High-profile Florida criminal attorney Jose Baez" on the Tiger Woods story, we all knew exactly who they were referring too.

Me thinks Mr. Baez hit the lottery. :angel:

 

[wonders]

BBM
Mr Hornsby,
Could you explain to me how Ms. Gonzalez hit the lottery and yet a jury would give her a token verdict?
I feel sorry for Ms. Gonzalez and everyone else who has come into contact with any of the Anthony's. Do you think there will be other civil suits after the murder trial?
I too agree that KC has no money b/c her jail account dosen't have an endless supply of cash for snacks and stuff.

Again sorry for quoting myself.
Please answer my question's Mr. Hornsby because I really don't understand the lottery and token thing. Thank you.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Well, sure, I guess it is always unwise for a judge to second guess a jury's recommendation.

But remember, the jury does not have to be unanimous. What if the jury is 7-5 for death? Is that representative of all the public, or just some of the public.

And remember, that 7-5 recommendation is from people who were already willing to impose the death penalty. So the 7-5 recommendation is only representative of the portion of Florida's population that agrees with the death penalty. It is unrepresentative of people who are opposed to the death penalty.

So unless Judge Strickland rejected a unanimous (12-0) jury recommendation of death, I would never say sparing a person's life would be unwise. And even then, I might not morally disagree with such a decision (legally, maybe).

I get what you are saying. My guess is you oppose the DP. I do not oppose it. However, I would like to see stricter guidelines imposed. A kind of check list where everything has to be checked off before it can even be brought to the table.
But what you say about the future jury on KC's case--that if it is 7-5 for the DP...that that doesn't represent the minority, or portion of the public who would not put her to death. As unfair as it is... the majority wins in America so.. When we vote on a presidential election or any public office, majority wins and "tough t*tt**s" to the minority. Right? I will say I find it strange that you need a unanimous vote for the "guilty" or "not guilty" vote, but not for the DP. Very strange. Is that in Fla only? Also how is that presented to Judge SS, is he told that the jury voted for the DP or told they voted for it 7 to 5(or whatever margins)? Don't think I am being flip about KC's life. I honestly don't know how I feel about the DP as it pertains to her. But IMO she did kill her child(possibly subduing her with chemicals first), rode around with her dead child in her trunk, and partied while her dead child was rotting away in her trunk....then she put her in trash bags and tossed her in a trash dumping area, then lied, lied, lied to LE who were trying to help find her missing child. And the big one-- "she NEVER reported her child missing".So if KC gets the DP....I don't think I'll feel too sorry for her. But.... I don't know if I could be part of sending her to "the needle". Just being honest.

But I still do believe that this jury will be approved by both sides and it will represent the public and it will represent (in some way) Caylee, so I will live with what they decide.
I can only decide on her punishment(for myself) after I hear all the prosecution has to offer up.....even then, I don't know if I could go with death for her...we'll see. moo

 

[doogiesgirl]

Mr. Hornsby, thank you so much for taking time to answer our questions and I am so addicted to your blog. But on a different note after viewing the last in court video what was your impression of KC's actions the anger on her face followed by the jig with the crying and the make him stop remark?

The "jig" was up.

And not only that----what about the background remarks of "you can sob now" and the response of "I can?" or "ok" (I can't tell which is said).

Is AL coaching KC to cry at her(AL's) cues...to sway the public and future jury?

:cow:

 

[rhornsby]

I get what you are saying. My guess is you oppose the DP. I do not oppose it. However, I would like to see stricter guidelines imposed. A kind of check list where everything has to be checked off before it can even be brought to the table.
But what you say about the future jury on KC's case--that if it is 7-5 for the DP...that that doesn't represent the minority, or portion of the public who would not put her to death. As unfair as it is... the majority wins in America so.. When we vote on a presidential election or any public office, majority wins and "tough t*tt**s" to the minority. Right? I will say I find it strange that you need a unanimous vote for the "guilty" or "not guilty" vote, but not for the DP. Very strange. Is that in Fla only? Also how is that presented to Judge SS, is he told that the jury voted for the DP or told they voted for it 7 to 5(or whatever margins)? Don't think I am being flip about KC's life. I honestly don't know how I feel about the DP as it pertains to her. But IMO she did kill her child(possibly subduing her with chemicals first), rode around with her dead child in her trunk, and partied while her dead child was rotting away in her trunk....then she put her in trash bags and tossed her in a trash dumping area, then lied, lied, lied to LE who were trying to help find her missing child. And the big one-- "she NEVER reported her child missing".So if KC gets the DP....I don't think I'll feel too sorry for her. But.... I don't know if I could be part of sending her to "the needle". Just being honest.

But I still do believe that this jury will be approved by both sides and it will represent the public and it will represent (in some way) Caylee, so I will live with what they decide.
I can only decide on her punishment(for myself) after I hear all the prosecution has to offer up.....even then, I don't know if I could go with death for her...we'll see. moo

Q. Do you have any idea what percentage of Florida, much less America believes in the Death Penalty?

A. Right around 50%

So your 7-5 jury represents just a majority of a minority of Floridians. So in your [scenario], I guess the minority WINS!

p.s. I am not against the death penalty, I just happen to believe a Life sentence in Florida is a far greater punishment than imposing the death penalty. Read my blog: Denying the Certainty of Death.

p.s.s. Someone like John Couey, I would personally strangle him with my bare hands. And I am not saying I wouldn't feel that way about Casey Anthony if (a big IF) it is proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt that she killed Caylee in a premeditated fashion and Caylee suffered. Currently, I am only convinced Casey knows how Caylee died.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks for the reference of your blog -Denying the Certainty of Death - which was written during the time I still thought you were just another camera hogging defense buffoon. As a Canadian I don't have to even consider "to put to death or not". Your thoughts have calmed my private indignation over our life sentences for some of the more gruesome serial murders we've had over the years.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Well, I kind of agree it is hocus pocus. But I also think it is unnecessary, George Anthony's testimony as to what he believed the smell to be is way more damaging than any magical air sniffer device.

Mr. Hornsby,

I see by your answer that you do not think highly of the air sample test. On national television, a member of KC’s defense team said “those were not coffin flies.”The media seems convinced the forensics from the trunk is overwhelming proof Caylee’s remains were in the trunk. Mr. Ashton made no reference to the trunk in his moving argument recently at the hearing.

If you were defending KC would you put experts on the stand to refute the states forensic experts and results from their testing? Or do you think the forensic evidence regarding the trunk is rock solid and unquestionable? Another question in this area, at the evidentiary hearing, when and if the white trash bag and its contents are asked to be brought into evidence, will the defense object to this admission of evidence claiming the bag sat in a dumpster for 30 hours and is contaminated?

Some people think the trunk evidence is very major to the case, others seem to think it doesn’t matter one way or the other to the case. So, I have one last question about the trunk, in your opinion, if you could put a mathematical percentage on the trunk evidence, what percentage of importance is the trunk evidence, to the overall circumstantial case being made by the state?

 

[21merc7]

Well, if on July 17, 2008 E! would have quoted "High-profile Florida criminal attorney Jose Baez" in any story - you would have said Jose Who?

But by November 30, 2009 when E! quoted "High-profile Florida criminal attorney Jose Baez" on the Tiger Woods story, we all knew exactly who they were referring too.

Me thinks Mr. Baez hit the lottery. :angel:

Chuckle, chuckle. What happens if KC jilts him for a more qualified attorney? Yes, he gets his hundred thousand, but future? Star Wars perhaps? lol! (could not help myself, lucky Jose.)

 

[rhornsby]

Mr. Hornsby,

I see by your answer that you do not think highly of the air sample test. On national television, a member of KC’s defense team said “those were not coffin flies.”The media seems convinced the forensics from the trunk is overwhelming proof Caylee’s remains were in the trunk. Mr. Ashton made no reference to the trunk in his moving argument recently at the hearing.

If you were defending KC would you put experts on the stand to refute the states forensic experts and results from their testing? Or do you think the forensic evidence regarding the trunk is rock solid and unquestionable? Another question in this area, at the evidentiary hearing, when and if the white trash bag and its contents are asked to be brought into evidence, will the defense object to this admission of evidence claiming the bag sat in a dumpster for 30 hours and is contaminated?

Some people think the trunk evidence is very major to the case, others seem to think it doesn’t matter one way or the other to the case. So, I have one last question about the trunk, in your opinion, if you could put a mathematical percentage on the trunk evidence, what percentage of importance is the trunk evidence, to the overall circumstantial case being made by the state?

Let me put it this way, there is zero doubt in my mind (and I am a defense attorney) that Caylee's remains were in that trunk.

Unfortunately though, the trunk evidence does not tell us how Caylee died - which is the one issue I feel needs to be answered to justify a Capital case.

And to give a short answer to your other questions about the trunk - George Anthony.

 

[21merc7]

rhornsby;

I know, and you know, the real Zenaida Gonzales case is not a money maker, however, can you explain why ethically it is practical and/or necessary. (Unlike a made up case I wish I could pursue. Live in apartments, second hand crack smoke makes me ill, throat burns, nose, lungs, can't sleep, then pneumonia, ha!) No, I don't file law suits, but you get the idea. I think you downplayed the ZG issue a bit.

 

[rhornsby]

rhornsby;

I know, and you know, the real Zenaida Gonzales case is not a money maker, however, can you explain why ethically it is practical and/or necessary. (Unlike a made up case I wish I could pursue. Live in apartments, second hand crack smoke makes me ill, throat burns, nose, lungs, can't sleep, then pneumonia, ha!) No, I don't file law suits, but you get the idea. I think you downplayed the ZG issue a bit.

Not sure what your question is, but from a legal stand-point, I believe the lawsuit should have been dismissed a long, long time ago.

The evidence that supposedly links ZG to Casey Anthony is so tenuous to be laughable - much less able to get past a summary judgment motion. But the judge ruled in ZG's favor and I will just have to see what an appellate court says if it gets that far.

And there are other legal issues that are just to complicated to discuss, but which I think the judge gave to little weight too. One of which is the crime reporting privilege.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Well, I kind of agree it is hocus pocus. But I also think it is unnecessary, George Anthony's testimony as to what he believed the smell to be is way more damaging than any magical air sniffer device.

Good Afternoon, Mr. Hornsby....basically this "magical air sniffer device" has been used for over 20 years in the flavor and perfumery industry. This methodology is what has brought the food consuming public "true to nature" flavors in your soda, ice cream, candy, gravy, etc...and fragrances that smell like the "real thing"...like a true tea rose scent, for example.

The actual sample, say a peach, is put into a vessel connected to these "air sniffer devices" and the "headspace" (aroma/gas/vapors) that forms, in the closed environment, is fed directly to a GC/MS. Which in turn gives you a "thumb print", so to speak, of the chemicals contained within the sample. The flavor chemist/perfumer then, in fact, formulate using the analysis, which gives them the relative amount of each of the individual chemicals found to contribute to the product being analyzed.....sometimes hundreds of individual chemicals.

Also, IIRC, fire investigations use a similar tecnique for identifying if an accelerant was used in a fire and what it was.

ETA: After the babbling, basically what I'm trying to say, is that the air analysis is NOT some new fangled thing...AND, if one goes back to the chemical analysis from the trunk headspace analysis, a formulation can be put together that I'll bet smells pretty close to decomp. If I were being more industrious, I'd go back and extrapolate the data and put together a formula from the relative amounts of each chemical found and ID'd..


PS...not trying to be rude or confrontational...just passing on info.....AND, I think I also know this type of analysis and results found by the Body Farm has never been used in a criminal trial to date.

 

[RR0004]

Did you know that Casey filled out an Affidavit of Indigency when she was arrested.

...and IIRC she promised Baez a retainer.

So if this affadavit was filed...is there a doc that says it was granted? Does an attorney have to appear on record as "pro bono"?

 

[rhornsby]

Good Afternoon, Mr. Hornsby....basically this "magical air sniffer device" has been used for over 20 years in the flavor and perfumery industry. This methodology is what has brought the food consuming public "true to nature" flavors in your soda, ice cream, candy, gravy, etc...and fragrances that smell like the "real thing"...like a true tea rose scent, for example.

The actual sample, say a peach, is put into a vessel connected to these "air sniffer devices" and the "headspace" (aroma/gas/vapors) that forms, in the closed environment, is fed directly to a GC/MS. Which in turn gives you a "thumb print", so to speak, of the chemicals contained within the sample. The flavor chemist/perfumer then, in fact, formulate using the analysis, which gives them the relative amount of each of the individual chemicals found to contribute to the product being analyzed.....sometimes hundreds of individual chemicals.

Also, IIRC, fire investigations use a similar tecnique for identifying if an accelerant was used in a fire and what it was.

ETA: After the babbling, basically what I'm trying to say, is that the air analysis is NOT some new fangled thing...AND, if one goes back to the chemical analysis from the trunk headspace analysis, a formulation can be put together that I'll bet smells pretty close to decomp. If I were being more industrious, I'd go back and extrapolate the data and put together a formula from the relative amounts of each chemical found and ID'd..


PS...not trying to be rude or confrontational...just passing on info.....AND, I think I also know this type of analysis and results found by the Body Farm has never been used in a criminal trial to date.

I agree that gas chromatography is scientifically accepted. But don't forget that by the time the samples were taken, the trunk had been exposed to open air for a few days (not to mention that we know the body was not it it for about a week). Plus, didn't Cindy clean the trunk?

So basically, they took an air sample that was unrepresentative of the actual conditions when the trunk was found and said it is evidence of guilt.

Sorry, that doesn't pass the sniff test - no pun intended.

p.s. Unless you start making fun of my thinning hair, I don't take anything personal.

 

[rhornsby]

...and IIRC she promised Baez a retainer.

So if this affadavit was filed...is there a doc that says it was granted? Does an attorney have to appear on record as "pro bono"?

Patience Sleuthison, patience.

 

[RR0004]

I agree that gas chromatography is scientifically accepted. But don't forget that by the time the samples were taken, the trunk had been exposed to open air for a few days (not to mention that we know the body was not it it for about a week). Plus, didn't Cindy clean the trunk?

So basically, they took an air sample that was unrepresentative of the actual conditions when the trunk was found and said it is evidence of guilt.

Sorry, that doesn't pass the sniff test - no pun intended.

p.s. Unless you start making fun of my thinning hair, I don't take anything personal.

So the presence of chloroform in the sample would not be a concern of yours (as a defense attorney)?

 

[rhornsby]

So the presence of chloroform in the sample would not be a concern of yours (as a defense attorney)?

No, the declining presence of my hair would be a concern of mine.

 

[RR0004]

Patience Sleuthison, patience.

Just curious then...why all the concern for how Baez was being paid? Concern enough that it was addressed in court (though discussed in private IIRC).

 

[RR0004]

No, the declining presence of my hair would be a concern of mine.

You do realize now that EVERYONE will be paying attention to just that! I can see it now..."Hairline Alerts". LOL