RU - Putin foes, feminist punk band Pussy Riot, jailed for 6 months after protest

[wfgodot]

What's troubling is that don't seem to have any specific criticisms of the behavior of the Church. What exactly did the Church do to provoke all this rage?

The Church backed Putin and his repressive policies in the election. How is that so hard for you to understand. I mean, read above. It appears you are choosing to ignore certain posts and links; and if you are, you, sir, are trolling.

 

[rachaellouise]

It does make me laugh when America speak out on other countries unfair sentencing and other affairs when they are holding Bradley Manning. JMO

These girls were stupid, and they wanted attention and to offend. I'm not Christian at all but if you go into a church and start shouting about the mother Mary, you're gonna ruffle a few feathers. However their sentence was extreme and no doubt politically motivated. What Putin says in public is usually very different to what he has probably said about the trial in private

 

[wfgodot]

It does make me laugh when America speak out on other countries unfair sentencing and other affairs when they are holding Bradley Manning. JMO

These girls were stupid, and they wanted attention and to offend. I'm not Christian at all but if you go into a church and start shouting about the mother Mary, you're gonna ruffle a few feathers. However their sentence was extreme and no doubt politically motivated. What Putin says in public is usually very different to what he has probably said about the trial in private

I would suspect that the majority of those protesting Putin's draconian repression of the Russian people and the sentence meted out to Pussy Riot also support Assange-Manning.

 

[wfgodot]

[video=youtube;dtUH2YSFlVU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtUH2YSFlVU[/video]

 

[wishuwerehere]

I don't think what they did was "stupid." It was courageous and brave. However, whenever you challenge authority in a courageous and brave way, their is a price to pay. It's disappointing that Pussy Riot's punishment outweights their crime. However, I am grateful for people who stand up and let their voices be heard. What Pussy Riot did was NOT a violent act. Was it offensive? To some, perhaps. But they challenged authority in a non violent way. I personally think that's awesome. I wish more people would express their grievances in a non violent way. The world would be a better a place.

 

[Walker]

It's vague...but from the best I can tell......

The three say the protest was a way to fight President Vladimir Putin's tightly controlled political system and draw attention to the strengthening relationship between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/russia-pussyriot-church-idUSL6E8JD8V820120815

Yes, and I will repeat my question, can anyone clearly state any specific grievances either against Putin or the Church, or is it just like "well, Madonna says so ..."

 

[Walker]

The Church backed Putin and his repressive policies in the election. How is that so hard for you to understand. I mean, read above. It appears you are choosing to ignore certain posts and links; and if you are, you, sir, are trolling.

Do the Church members have a right to support a candidate?

In most countries, they do.

What are these repressive policies to which you refer?

Please be exact, and include details.

 

[Walker]

It does make me laugh when America speak out on other countries unfair sentencing and other affairs when they are holding Bradley Manning. JMO

These girls were stupid, and they wanted attention and to offend. I'm not Christian at all but if you go into a church and start shouting about the mother Mary, you're gonna ruffle a few feathers. However their sentence was extreme and no doubt politically motivated. What Putin says in public is usually very different to what he has probably said about the trial in private

Their actions included
1. disrespect of property rights;
2. hate-speech towards a protected minority;
3. lewd shouting in a church, which could be intimidation;
4. threat to property, and possibly persons.

US courts have stiff sentences for relatively minor crimes; for example, possession of small amounts of marihuana. In Europe, stating publicly that one doubts the Holocaust can get you several years in prison.

If the sentence was politically motivated, then why were all their previous protests (in public areas) pretty much ignored by the government?

 

[Walker]

I would suspect that the majority of those protesting Putin's draconian repression of the Russian people and the sentence meted out to Pussy Riot also support Assange-Manning.

Putin's draconian repression of the Russian people?

Can you list any examples? I mean specific examples, not just that religious people voted for him.

 

[wfgodot]

[video=youtube;G-t52zc8Ex4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-t52zc8Ex4&feature=related[/video]

 

[Walker]

I don't think what they did was "stupid." It was courageous and brave.

Bravery without wisdom is useless.

However, whenever you challenge authority in a courageous and brave way, their is a price to pay.

There is also a price to be paid, as long as Old Soros is around.

It's disappointing that Pussy Riot's punishment outweights their crime.

As I mentioned before, the Church had a lot of precious artwork, and fully lit candelabras; they certainly put a lot of property at risk when they jumped up on the altar, kicking their legs and fighting with the men who tried to remove them.

However, I am grateful for people who stand up and let their voices be heard. What Pussy Riot did was NOT a violent act.

Certainly it was psychologically violent to abuse the congregation of sincerely devout people that way; some of the elderly worshippers, in particular, may have been very upset by their actions. And the lewd lyrics of their "song" were certainly disrespectful in a church.

Was it offensive? To some, perhaps. But they challenged authority in a non violent way. I personally think that's awesome. I wish more people would express their grievances in a non violent way. The world would be a better a place.

But a religious group has rights to hold a service on their own property without a large group of disruptive people barging in to harass them.

 

[Walker]

Not one pro-Pussy Riot poster can come up with a serious criticism of Putin's government.

 

[wfgodot]

[video=youtube;ocBJt6Xz0iI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBJt6Xz0iI[/video]

 

[Walker]

Really? you really think publishing a paper would have garnered the world wide attention they are getting now? :what:

If Pussy Riot members were sincere political activists, their goal would not be mere attention, but rather to influence the Russian public towards their views. In this case, writing and distributing a paper would have been more productive than breaking into a church and disrupting a service.

 

[wfgodot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DSSFJJ5Wo4

Pussy Riot have said, "What we have in common is impudence, politically loaded lyrics, the importance of feminist discourse and a non-standard female image."

 

[BritsKate]

Wowza. I feel kinda accomplished at being compared to a Pavlovian dog.

I don't have time, or frankly, the impetus to handhold through links. Band hates that church supports politics they don't agree with. They protest both Putin at large (as do many, many others) and that link with faith. Simples, no? If anyone wants to know exactly what they're protesting - down to the last letter of the Russian alphabet - Google is your friend.

And whilst imagining Calvin in a neon pink balaclava was mildly amusing the point I was attempting to make is that a) 'gimmickry' is defined largely by personal opinion and b) actions of those attempting to refrain from merging politics and religion of yore could most certainly be considered 'gimmicks' by critics of their day.

Case in point I have a British history book that calls More an oddball. Literally.

 

[BritsKate]

Not one pro-Pussy Riot poster can come up with a serious criticism of Putin's government.

Maybe it's his 3rd term in office? Or maybe the allegations of cronyism and corruption? Perchance the declining health care standards or the highest rate of depopulation since Stalin? Perhaps Chekism has a bit to do with it? Maybe they just don't want someone with KGB ties in office anymore?

If you can manage I suggest reading some of what Andrey Illarianov has written since he resigned about Putin's Russia. Another resource I found particularly useful in my dogged pursuit for further knowledge is: http://www.freedomhouse.org/search/russia

 

[wfgodot]

Not one pro-Pussy Riot poster can come up with a serious criticism of Putin's government.

Behind the assassins, the grim truth of Putin's Russia (Observer)

Vladimir Putin: A Potemkin election (Guardian)

Corruption, violence and vice have triumphed in Putin's Russia (Guardian)

Putin starts to ‘tighten the screws’ on foes: Protest leaders are swept into jail (Washington Times)

Putin’s regime takes "retaliatory” measures against supporters of Magnitsky legislation (Winnipeg Free Press)

et al.

 

[BritsKate]

There ya go, Woofy, making it easy for all of us to link hop again. I bow down to your persistence. Thanks for taking the time I wasn't willing to.

 

[Walker]

Wowza. I feel kinda accomplished at being compared to a Pavlovian dog.

I don't have time, or frankly, the impetus to handhold through links. Band hates that church supports politics they don't agree with. They protest both Putin at large (as do many, many others) and that link with faith. Simples, no? If anyone wants to know exactly what they're protesting - down to the last letter of the Russian alphabet - Google is your friend.

And whilst imagining Calvin in a neon pink balaclava was mildly amusing the point I was attempting to make is that a) 'gimmickry' is defined largely by personal opinion and b) actions of those attempting to refrain from merging politics and religion of yore could most certainly be considered 'gimmicks' by critics of their day.

Case in point I have a British history book that calls More an oddball. Literally.

Gimmick means using some cheap way to get attention. More & Calvin were serious intellectuals, who had reasons for their actions. Neither man resorted to lewd language or behavior to demonstrate their points.

You keep repeating that it is so awful that members of the RO Church support Putin. Again, why is that so wrong?