Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

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  • #261
From my country's MSM

"Trump's Big Game for Resources.

Geologist: 'Ukraine Has Everything'.


1740169491952.jpeg


According to Washington,
this is a 'historic opportunity' for Kiev
and a chance to ensure 'long-term security'.

However,
extraction will not be as easy.

Especially when some of the deposits are located in areas occupied by Russia.

(Conversations with Faculty of Geology Professor)

Is Ukraine a raw material Eldorado?

'Ukraine has a lot of raw materials that are lacking in Europe.

There is a whole list,
well documented by the geological services of this country,
but it is impossible to count all the resources.

Some of them are located very deep,
the value of others is a mystery because no one has studied them'.

Mysteries stimulate the imagination.

According to Forbes,
the total value of Ukraine's mineral resources is about $15 trillion.
Is this fantasy?


'It sounds like a fantasy.
But your eyes might open
when you consider the dozens of titanium deposits,
which make up 30 percent of the world's known deposits,
or the accumulation of manganese ores in the east of the country.

There is a shortage of titanium in Europe,
and it is used in nuclear submarines.

Graphite,
on the other hand, is used in metallurgy, electrical engineering, and battery production.

Let's add 52 iron ore deposits,
each with more than 1 billion tons of resources.

I am beginning to partially understand Donald Trump's demand for access to deposits.

'But it doesn't work the way Donald Trump thinks, that a given deposit has so many billions of tons, so that's how much money you can make.

Every deposit has to be properly explored,
which was done in the Soviet Union,
so the Russians probably know exactly where and what is located.

And in my opinion, this is one of the reasons for starting this war.

The Russians don't want to give Europe access to Ukrainian resources that we need'."

Much more in the link:
(Click Translate)


 
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  • #262
From my country's MSM

"Trump's Big Game for Resources.

Geologist: 'Ukraine Has Everything'.


View attachment 565517

According to Washington,
this is a 'historic opportunity' for Kiev
and a chance to ensure "'ong-term security'.

However,
extraction will not be as easy.

Especially when some of the deposits are located in areas occupied by Russia.

Is Ukraine a raw material Eldorado?
'Ukraine has a lot of raw materials that are lacking in Europe.

There is a whole list, well documented by the geological services of this country, but it is impossible to count all the resources.

Some of them are located very deep,
the value of others is a mystery because no one has studied them'.

Mysteries stimulate the imagination.

According to Forbes,
the total value of Ukraine's mineral resources is about $15 trillion.
Is this fantasy?


'It sounds like a fantasy.
But your eyes might open
when you consider the dozens of titanium deposits,
which make up 30 percent of the world's known deposits,
or the accumulation of manganese ores in the east of the country.

There is a shortage of titanium in Europe,
and it is used in nuclear submarines.

Graphite,
on the other hand, is used in metallurgy, electrical engineering, and battery production.

Let's add 52 iron ore deposits,
each with more than 1 billion tons of resources.

I am beginning to partially understand Donald Trump's demand for access to deposits.

'But it doesn't work the way Donald Trump thinks, that a given deposit has so many billions of tons, so that's how much money you can make.

Every deposit has to be properly explored, which was done in the Soviet Union,
so the Russians probably know exactly where and what is located.

And in my opinion, this is one of the reasons for starting this war.

The Russians don't want to give Europe access to Ukrainian resources that we need'."

Much more in the link:
(Click Translate)



For me, it is extremely sad that Ukraine's future is trying to be determined by two external oligarchs who both appear to want Ukraine's wealth.
 
  • #263
I haven't seen any signs of Putin wanting peace either, except that he pretty much has what he went in for.

I think it's more complicated for Ukraine. I can understand that Zelensky wanted to fight to retain more of the country. I think a lot of people outside Ukraine are angry and upset that Putin's going to walk away with massive gains from this war, no black mark against his name, and Ukraine has given everything to retain just half of their own country.

I had this silly idea that Putin should be forced to exit the majority of Ukraine, leave them alone for self determination, and only then should Russia be welcomed back to the world, having lost more than they'd gained.

Of course Ukraine does deserve peace. They've lost so much, been through so much, and they need to be able to rebuild. They also need to be able to feel safe in national security terms. I think they deserve our praise and thanks for trying to hold off Russia, and I think all the countries that contributed support deserve praise.
In an idealistic world, yes Putin should return land and exit. Putin is a dictator, a world power, holds nuclear weapons, and intent to return Russian original territory. Everyday he inches closer to more rare minerals and land mass, his goal. He's winning and big time. Every hour that slips by, Ukraine looses lives, property, and land. Soon there will little left to support Ukraine as the country.

Putin would not hesitate to fire off nuclear missiles. He's made this threat many times. Are we willing to risk nuclear war? Because Putin is not going to back down, and any increased force from NATO or other countries will result in a nuclear incident.

Zelenskyy wants to continue the war, try to recapture land, or have it returned. As much as we all want this, know it's the right thing to do, Putin will not agree. People don't quit when they're winning. Putin is going to lay out the terms, US can try to bargain for more, but we can't be held accountable for not making a dictator, with an arsenal of nuclear weapons, concede.

Zelenskyy will need to decide wether to except the deal or not, try to negotiate or continue the war. This would take the burden of negotiation on the US. All blame lies with the US.

Moo... What's fair to the US....drop our NATO contribution from 4% down to the 2%, the same as some nation's and more than others and get out of the middle of Ukraine. This whole thing is making the US look bad, when we've given more and done more than most, and impacting our reputation. I just think we need to let Europe and Zelenskyy call the shots.

All my opinion
 
  • #264
All are talking about rare earth minerals.

But we must remember that Ukraine can be Agriculture Giant.

Ukraine's soils are among the most fertile in the world.

First of all, these are "black soils,"
which cover almost the entire eastern part of the country.

They developed on the basis of steppe vegetation,
which is typical of a moderate climate of warm continental.

Almost a quarter of the most fertile soil of the world, known as "black soil",
is located in Ukraine.

It is rich in organic matter called "humus",
which consists of spreading plants.

Over 65 percent of arable land in Ukraine consist of black-circuit deposits,
which makes it ideal for farming.

 
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  • #265
I just wonder how long Russia would cease fire. seems they could restart a war any time. When I see all the bombed out destroyed buildings and rubble and think about the deaths- such a waste of everything.
Who knows, it might not last a week. Seems they've been fight with Russian for years, on and off, fighting among their government, rebellions, just an unstable situation. I've been reading and researching the last few weeks, being trapped at home with snows and ice.

Moo... I do know one thing, I'm not willing to go to nuclear war over land or minerals in Ukraine.

 
  • #266
I don't think the US looked bad until the last few weeks.

I also just realised that we're not talking about a peace deal. We're talking about Ukraine's surrender to Putin. It might be time for that, but it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, and I think it's a very sad time.

The NATO contributions and the US being the military might of the Western world has a lot of history behind it, the petrodollar and everything. It's not as simple as it might seem on the surface. This has underpinned the world order for decades. Having oil priced in dollars has always been considered a massive boon for the US. It's been like a quid pro quo that they get the petrodollar and they use that to support other nations in defence and they're our ally and so we don't see their massive military capabilities as a threat.

I think Europe has been naive in regards to defence capabilities and the need for them, especially since the end of the USSR. I think it's a fair point that a lot of countries don't seem to have realised how much has changed under Putin and we don't live in that world we hoped we would live in after the fall of the USSR and what we thought was the end of the Cold War. IMHO we've been utterly oblivious that some years ago Putin started a new Cold war against the West and has been invading wherever he wants and can just hold this nuclear threat out and we're like, if it's not a Nato country he invades, then we just have to sit back and watch.

Most of us, after the 80s, had a sense of everlasting peace in Europe, I think the people of the US have felt something similar. Russia wasn't seen as an equal threat as it was in the days of the US vs the USSR and mutual building up nuclear arsenals.

I feel sorry for Ukraine being stuck in the middle of this. It's not fair on a country that a massive neighbour should have so much power over them.
 
  • #267
I don't think the US looked bad until the last few weeks.

I also just realised that we're not talking about a peace deal. We're talking about Ukraine's surrender to Putin. It might be time for that, but it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, and I think it's a very sad time.

The NATO contributions and the US being the military might of the Western world has a lot of history behind it, the petrodollar and everything. It's not as simple as it might seem on the surface. This has underpinned the world order for decades. Having oil priced in dollars has always been considered a massive boon for the US. It's been like a quid pro quo that they get the petrodollar and they use that to support other nations in defence and they're our ally and so we don't see their massive military capabilities as a threat.

I think Europe has been naive in regards to defence capabilities and the need for them, especially since the end of the USSR. I think it's a fair point that a lot of countries don't seem to have realised how much has changed under Putin and we don't live in that world we hoped we would live in after the fall of the USSR and what we thought was the end of the Cold War. IMHO we've been utterly oblivious that some years ago Putin started a new Cold war against the West and has been invading wherever he wants and can just hold this nuclear threat out and we're like, if it's not a Nato country he invades, then we just have to sit back and watch.

Most of us, after the 80s, had a sense of everlasting peace in Europe, I think the people of the US have felt something similar. Russia wasn't seen as an equal threat as it was in the days of the US vs the USSR and mutual building up nuclear arsenals.

I feel sorry for Ukraine being stuck in the middle of this. It's not fair on a country that a massive neighbour should have so much power over them.

Every country should invest in defence of Homeland.

As the saying goes:

"Can you count?
So,
count on yourself"!!! ;)

JMO
 
  • #268
All are talking about rare earth minerals.
But we must remember that Ukraine can be Agriculture Giant.

Ukraine's soils are among the most fertile in the world.
First of all, these are "black soil," which cover almost the entire eastern part of the country.
They developed on the basis of steppe vegetation, which is typical of a moderate climate of warm continental.

Almost a quarter of the most fertile soil of the world, known as "black soil",
is located in Ukraine.

It is a black soil rich in organic matter called "humus",
which consists of spreading plants.
Over 65 percent of arable land in Ukraine consist of black -circuit deposits, which makes it ideal for farming.

Absolutely 100% right. They were one of the largest suppliers of grain to the United States. Remember after the war started how much bread went up.

They have so much potential. It's a shame, the government has been in turmoil for years, fighting among themselves and with Russia. They need stability and work towards the building a strong government.

Off topic.... Interesting the land is so rich and fertile. Our family farm is about 4 miles, as the crow flies from the largest uranium ore in the US (Cole Farm) Virginia has a moratorium on mining and the big concern has been run off on large amounts of surrounding farmland. I've often wondered the impact from the uranium core. When Lewis and Clark surveyed and mapped the area they named it the land of Eden. Their notes indicate it was some of the most rich/lush land they had surveyed. The farms in this area have always overproduced.

 
  • #269
Russia / Putin / is a bully. However, things are - as others have said - "Not that simple".

What I do know is that the US has spend billions of dollars to help Ukraine - billions of dollars on an economy over budget. But, honestly, we can't win the war for them. We also have continued to weaken our own country by out of control spending. We also have had thousands of US citizens affected by terrible natural disasters last summer - very little money was given to help our own. Ending the war is the best thing for Ukraine and for the US. JMHO and all
 
  • #270
I don't think the US looked bad until the last few weeks.

I also just realised that we're not talking about a peace deal. We're talking about Ukraine's surrender to Putin. It might be time for that, but it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, and I think it's a very sad time.

The NATO contributions and the US being the military might of the Western world has a lot of history behind it, the petrodollar and everything. It's not as simple as it might seem on the surface. This has underpinned the world order for decades. Having oil priced in dollars has always been considered a massive boon for the US. It's been like a quid pro quo that they get the petrodollar and they use that to support other nations in defence and they're our ally and so we don't see their massive military capabilities as a threat.

I think Europe has been naive in regards to defence capabilities and the need for them, especially since the end of the USSR. I think it's a fair point that a lot of countries don't seem to have realised how much has changed under Putin and we don't live in that world we hoped we would live in after the fall of the USSR and what we thought was the end of the Cold War. IMHO we've been utterly oblivious that some years ago Putin started a new Cold war against the West and has been invading wherever he wants and can just hold this nuclear threat out and we're like, if it's not a Nato country he invades, then we just have to sit back and watch.

Most of us, after the 80s, had a sense of everlasting peace in Europe, I think the people of the US have felt something similar. Russia wasn't seen as an equal threat as it was in the days of the US vs the USSR and mutual building up nuclear arsenals.

I feel sorry for Ukraine being stuck in the middle of this. It's not fair on a country that a massive neighbour should have so much power over them.
Well said!!!!

Yea, nobody was talking much about Ukraine until the US tried to negotiating ending the war. Zelenskyy visited Mar-a-Lago prior to the inauguration. It was my understanding that he wanted to end the war. Once the US tried, we became the bad guys, wanting to steal or take advantage of the rare minerals in Ukraine.

There's actually two situations on the table....
Ending the war. US serving as intermediary between Russia and Ukraine.

Ukraine negotiating for security after the war ends and during a ceasefire. This would be a peacekeeping mission. Zelenskyy wants a long-term commitment. The US has offered to provide security at a financial cost. This is fair, when US tax payers, mainly middle income are paying the cost.

With a little bit of Google's help, you can find where find Ukraine has been trying to sell mineral rights and seeking private companies in their country for years. There are few takers due to their unstable government and Russian threat. It takes for stable government, security, an employable workforce in order to attract private companies into a country. They're not going to invest billions of dollars without some security of risk. It's just sound business practice.
Moo
 
  • #271
Absolutely 100% right. They were one of the largest suppliers of grain to the United States. Remember after the war started how much bread went up.

They have so much potential. It's a shame, the government has been in turmoil for years, fighting among themselves and with Russia. They need stability and work towards the building a strong government.

Off topic.... Interesting the land is so rich and fertile. Our family farm is about 4 miles, as the crow flies from the largest uranium ore in the US (Cole Farm) Virginia has a moratorium on mining and the big concern has been run off on large amounts of surrounding farmland. I've often wondered the impact from the uranium core. When Lewis and Clark surveyed and mapped the area they named it the land of Eden. Their notes indicate it was some of the most rich/lush land they had surveyed. The farms in this area have always overproduced.


You are right.
So much potential!
Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe (after Russia).
So rich with the best soils, so rich with minerals.
Ukraine could be a giant.
I hope as a neighbour of Ukraine
that its time will come
and these people will spread their wings at last!

JMO
 
  • #272
Looks like the UK is further strengthening its aid to Ukraine, after this week's happenings.


Sir Keir Starmer is to announce a new package of support for Ukraine .... the Prime Minister will use the third anniversary of Russia’s invasion to unveil a “triple whammy” of measures, including military aid and sanctions, on Monday.

But Sir Keir’s new support package for Ukraine risks frustrating the White House. A senior government source defended the approach, saying: “We have always said we want to put Ukraine in the strongest position, whether that’s for going into talks or for the continuation of fighting.

“We still don’t know which of those positions we’re going to be in. It’s right that we continue to support Ukraine in all the ways that we have long said we will.”


 
  • #273
Sounds as though next week President Zelenskyy is holding a summit with allies to discuss Ukraine's future.


"I also took the opportunity to offer my support for the acceleration of Ukraine’s membership of the EU and to state Ireland’s continuing financial support for Ukraine," he added.

Martin is set to join world leaders in a summit hosted by Zelenskyy to further discuss Ukraine’s future.

"I look forward to joining online with other leaders for President Zelenskyy’s summit to discuss this further next week," Martin stated.

 
  • #274
Sounds as though next week President Zelenskyy is holding a summit with allies to discuss Ukraine's future.


"I also took the opportunity to offer my support for the acceleration of Ukraine’s membership of the EU and to state Ireland’s continuing financial support for Ukraine," he added.

Martin is set to join world leaders in a summit hosted by Zelenskyy to further discuss Ukraine’s future.

"I look forward to joining online with other leaders for President Zelenskyy’s summit to discuss this further next week," Martin stated.

Ireland does not provide military support, only humanitarian. I can't see why the US would be upset about humanitarian aid.

6. Since February 2022, Ireland has committed approximately €380 million in humanitarian, stabilisation and non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine. Ireland’s commitments to Ukraine seek to complement contributions by the other signatories of the G7 Declaration, including the EU and its Member States. These commitments to Ukraine are coordinated with partners and fully reflect the Joint Security Commitments between the EU and Ukraine, signed on 27 June 2024.
 
  • #275
Ireland does not provide military support, only humanitarian. I can't see why the US would be upset about humanitarian aid.

6. Since February 2022, Ireland has committed approximately €380 million in humanitarian, stabilisation and non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine. Ireland’s commitments to Ukraine seek to complement contributions by the other signatories of the G7 Declaration, including the EU and its Member States. These commitments to Ukraine are coordinated with partners and fully reflect the Joint Security Commitments between the EU and Ukraine, signed on 27 June 2024.

I don't think Ireland thinks it is upsetting the White House? That is not the impression I got from the article about Ireland. I posted that article because I saw the mention of the summit next week. And also noticed the encouragement for Ukraine to join the EU.
 
  • #276
"The United States has threatened to cut off Ukraine's access to Starlink satellite internet terminals if Kyiv does not reach a deal with the U.S. regarding critical mineral resources

Starlink internet terminals have played a crucial role in securing communications in the war in Ukraine. Last year, Ukraine said that approximately 42,000 terminals were in operation across the military, hospitals, businesses, and aid organizations.

Washington first raised the prospect of shutting off Starlink service after Zelensky rejected the deal presented by U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on Feb. 12

The Starlink threat came up again in talks with U.S. Special Envoy Keith Kellogg, who met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv on Feb. 20."

 
  • #277
"The United States has threatened to cut off Ukraine's access to Starlink satellite internet terminals if Kyiv does not reach a deal with the U.S. regarding critical mineral resources

Starlink internet terminals have played a crucial role in securing communications in the war in Ukraine. Last year, Ukraine said that approximately 42,000 terminals were in operation across the military, hospitals, businesses, and aid organizations.

Washington first raised the prospect of shutting off Starlink service after Zelensky rejected the deal presented by U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on Feb. 12

The Starlink threat came up again in talks with U.S. Special Envoy Keith Kellogg, who met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv on Feb. 20."


From my country's MSM

"Shutting Down Starlink for Ukraine?

There's an Alternative in Store.


Serhii "Flash" points out that despite the current rhetoric of Elon Musk and Donald Trump,
he doubts that SpaceX would give up providing Starlink in Ukraine,
since it earns an estimated $10 million per month from it.

Despite everything,
the Ukrainians have developed a parallel communication system based on radio communication and a network of fiber optics with LTE modems.

Its only downside is that it cannot easily replace air communication."

 
  • #278
From my country's MSM

"Shutting Down Starlink for Ukraine?

There's an Alternative in Store.


Serhii "Flash" points out that despite the current rhetoric of Elon Musk and Donald Trump,
he doubts that SpaceX would give up providing Starlink in Ukraine,
since it earns an estimated $10 million per month from it.

Despite everything,
the Ukrainians have developed a parallel communication system based on radio communication and a network of fiber optics with LTE modems.

Its only downside is that it cannot easily replace air communication."


Musk seems to think that Starlink is the only thing that is effective on the front lines. But I hope Ukraine can source a decent front-line alternative - if there is one - just in case.
Maybe your article means - when it says 'cannot easily replace air communication' - that the parallel communication system can't direct drones.


Musk freely admitted it, saying "Starlink today is the backbone of the Ukrainian military. It is still the only one that's effective at the front lines."

Ukraine's military uses it for directing drones, to help with aiming artillery strikes, and for encrypted communications between soldiers and commanders.

 
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  • #279
The fewer options Ukraine has, the better the deal the US can get.
 
  • #280
"Zelensky 'refuses to sign'
Donald Trump's 'problematic' minerals deal
amid tensions between world leaders.

1740241173877.jpeg


A Ukrainian source told Sky News:

'The agreement is not yet ready to be signed,
there are a number of problematic issues,
and in the current form of the draft,
the president is not ready to accept it'.

'Today,
the drafts do not reflect a partnership in the agreement
and contain only unilateral commitments by Ukraine'.

This story is developing, more to follow."

 
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