Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Simply Southern]

I hope he makes up his mind, whether he's going to sign the deal or not and not waste everyone's time. His visit comes at tremendous costs to the US taxpayers, requiring transportation and security. Trump's made it clear, European countries will be responsible for peacekeeping. There's no way the US is going to guarantee military support, all the long-term basis. We have too many threats for the US to assume this responsibility.

Many in the US, moo, have grown weary of his constant rhetoric. He's either in or out. He has a European deal on the table. If he's not happy he needs to move on to the European deal.
Moo

Zelensky says no security guarantees agreed yet on US minerals deal - live updates

He says if he visits the White House on Friday, he will be “very direct” in asking whether the US would continue supporting Ukraine or not.

www.bbc.com

Summary
Ukraine's President Zelensky says there are no security guarantees yet in the mineral deal between Ukraine and the US

Ukrainian officials say a deal to share some of Ukraine's mineral wealth with the US is agreed, and President Trump says he expects Zelensky to visit the US to sign the deal this week

But Zelensky, speaking in Kyiv on Wednesday, says he still wants security guarantees, and the initial deal is more of a "framework"

"I wanted to have a sentence on security guarantees for Ukraine, and it's important that it's there," he says

Earlier, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called the possible deployment of peacekeeping troops in Ukraine a "deceit"

Donald Trump said on Tuesday there would be a need for "some form of peacekeeping" in Ukraine in the event of a peace deal

 

[Simply Southern]

"Ukraine confirms. ​

There is a final version of the agreement with the US on minerals.​

The United States and Ukraine have worked out the final version of the agreement on Ukrainian mineral deposits.

The government is to approve it on Wednesday,
Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said."

View attachment 566480

Ukraina potwierdza. Jest ostateczny wariant umowy z USA w sprawie minerałów

Stany Zjednoczone i Ukraina wypracowały ostateczny wariant umowy w sprawie ukraińskich złóż minerałów. Rząd ma go zatwierdzić jeszcze w środę - powiedział premier Ukrainy Denys Szmyhal. Zawarcie "umowy ramowej"...

www.money.pl

Thanks for posting. The entire agreement is included, translated by Google. Of course, I read and reread several times.

Interesting points ....
Zelenskyy does not have to approve the deal. He's not even the authorizing signature.
Agreement will be voted an approved by Ukraine governing body, today.

Agreement will be signed by US Treasury Secretary, and
Julia Svyrydenko, First Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine – Minister of Economy of Ukraine

The "FUND" be managed by Ukraine and US. It appears US have control over all decisions and disbursement.

The FUND does not include provisions, and not subject to previous contracts/agreements with Ukraine.

The US agreeing to provide support to obtain security.

Continued .....

Moo...the contract prevents fraud, overcharging and expenses. A good deal for the US and even better deal for Ukraine. Trump is know for "deals" with private companies. Apple just committed to a 500 US investment, as one example.
Once signed, many investment and mining companies will seek to invest, quickly.

 

[Dotta]

Thanks for posting. The entire agreement is included, translated by Google. Of course, I read and reread several times.

Interesting points ....
Zelenskyy does not have to approve the deal. He's not even the authorizing signature.
Agreement will be voted an approved by Ukraine governing body, today.

Agreement will be signed by US Treasury Secretary, and
Julia Svyrydenko, First Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine – Minister of Economy of Ukraine

The "FUND" be managed by Ukraine and US. It appears US have control over all decisions and disbursement.

The FUND does not include provisions, and not subject to previous contracts/agreements with Ukraine.

The US agreeing to provide support to obtain security.

Continued .....

Moo...the contract prevents fraud, overcharging and expenses. A good deal for the US and even better deal for Ukraine. Trump is know for "deals" with private companies. Apple just committed to a 500 US investment, as one example.
Once signed, many investment and mining companies will seek to invest, quickly.

And Thank You
for reading it with a sharp eye hahaha
and providing us with important details

 

[Simply Southern]

Regarding "the pretending"... yes, the true colors will become stronger. I do not think there is American interest in peace and independence for Ukraine. Its all about the minerals, that's all.

As the article attached, states:
‘[The US] is pursuing the long-standing Russian policy objectives of being forgiven for aggression, atrocities, and war crimes.’
There have been 1000s or articles and opinions regarding Trump's pension for lying. Nothing new there.
Clearly, this has also been Putin's standard reputation for decades as well.


i think many Americans mistook "isolationalism" for "expansionism". Other countries understood this much better than Americans, before he was elected.
Expansionism = power. No better way to keep working on that "long standing Russian policy" than to throw the Domestic US into chaos to work the master International plan.
Moo
I am not hopeful for Ukraine. Screwups in protecting Ukraine happened on the watch of at least 4 former US Presidents. However, I DO feel there are more and more eyes and countries watching Ukraine NOW.
Moo.

U.S. Deterrence Failed in Ukraine

Washington’s prewar efforts were weak and inadequate.

foreignpolicy.com

If we weren't interested in peace and success for Ukraine we wouldn't be trying to negotiate a fund for economic investments. We also wouldn't be trying to negotiate peace, which I hope includes the return of POWs, ends all loss of life, and a pathway for citizens to return to a prosperous Ukraine.

I just have to say, before some condemn the United States and pass judgment...

What other country has offered the negotiate with Putin to end the war?
The PM of France stated in a press conference this week that he had not spoken to Putin since several weeks before the war.
Biden didn't speak to him the entire time.

What other country has offered to help rebuild their economy?
The mineral deal is about much more than a repayment for start up cost for the United States. It does NOT include repayment for pass aid. The US will invest a large amount of start up cost, marketing, exploration, an drill is extremely expensive. It presents a sound structure to provide long-term investment in Ukraine commerce. This will insure financial success and sustainability for years I come.

My opinion only....

 

[Dotta]

"No 'debts' on Ukraine's side. ​

Zelensky comments on the agreement with the US.​

'The agreement does not include
$500 billion in debt,
or $350 billion,
or $150 billion.
I thought it would be unfair to us',
Volodymyr Zelensky said.

'Our government officials assess the final version of the agreement very positively.
They say it can work',
Volodymyr Zelensky said
in a conversation with journalists,
as reported by the state news agency Ukrinform.

The President emphasized
that he had not yet seen the final form of the agreement,
as he was not the one who led the negotiations on it.

'The main issues I raised there sound very good.
The teams really worked —
both Ukrainians and Americans.

The most important thing for me was that we are not debtors,
despite what the media says'.

Zelensky also stressed
that he hoped the agreement with the US would 'lead to further agreements'.

The President noted that no American security guarantees had been agreed yet.

He called the agreement itself more of a 'framework'."

More in the link:

Żadnych "długów" po stronie Ukrainy. Zełenski komentuje porozumienie z USA

- Umowa nie zawiera 500 miliardów dolarów długu, ani 350 miliardów dolarów, ani 150 miliardów dolarów. Uważałem, że byłoby to niesprawiedliwe wobec nas — oświadczył Wołodymyr Zełenski.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

And Thank You
for reading it with a sharp eye hahaha
and providing us with important details

Federal, state, and private contract negotiations and interpretation was a large part of my career. I love to read contracts and compare them to the policies and procedures that follow.
Good contracts need to be fair to both parties.
Moo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If we weren't interested in peace and success for Ukraine we wouldn't be trying to negotiate a fund for economic investments. We also wouldn't be trying to negotiate peace, which I hope includes the return of POWs, ends all loss of life, and a pathway for citizens to return to a prosperous Ukraine.

I just have to say, before some condemn the United States and pass judgment...

What other country has offered the negotiate with Putin to end the war?
The PM of France stated in a press conference this week that he had not spoken to Putin since several weeks before the war.
Biden didn't speak to him the entire time.

What other country has offered to help rebuild their economy?
The mineral deal is about much more than a repayment for start up cost for the United States. It does NOT include repayment for pass aid. The US will invest a large amount of start up cost, marketing, exploration, an drill is extremely expensive. It presents a sound structure to provide long-term investment in Ukraine commerce. This will insure financial success and sustainability for years I come.

My opinion only....

The "first" end game is minerals; Its an ongoing game to the international chessboard powerplay.

 

[Simply Southern]

The President emphasized
that he had not yet seen the final form of the agreement,
as he was not the one who led the negotiations on it.

Does he not read the press? I find it hard to believe. Did he not attend or communicate with the Ukraine governing body?
Moo... He's grasping at straws. He's lost control and he knows it.

Hoping the agreement is signed. Hoping a peace deal is soon to follow. The POWs are released and the Ukrainians citizens can begin to rebuild their lives.

Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

The "first" end game is minerals; Its an ongoing game to the international chessboard powerplay.

Clearly if you read the contract, it's written in extremely simple form/language, the US will not own any mineral rights or land. 50% profit, after expenses will be matched by at 2/3 ratio US contribution. For every dollar they put in we put in two. It does not include any property ownership or any mineral rights for the United States. Mining and agriculture are the only two revenue generators the Ukraine government have. The Ukraine government will keep 50% of the profit and all profit from agriculture or any other generating source to use as they see fit.

Have any other countries offered to invest $2 for every dollar? NOPE

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by an international chess board power play?

Moo ...

 

[Dotta]

"Ukraine-USA Agreement.​

There is a voice from the White House.​

Confusion over the Ukraine-US agreement.

Kiev announced earlier that a preliminary agreement had been reached on this matter.

The White House, however, did not confirm this version,
referring at the same time to the words of the Ukrainian President,
who described the project as a 'framework agreement'.

'If the Ukrainian leader says the deal has not been finalized,
I don't see why inviting him would make sense',
an anonymous White House official told Reuters.

'It is expected that his arrival is aimed at recognizing the final position
(on the agreement)',
the agency quotes the official,
referring to Zelensky's words.

The source emphasizes, however,
that judging from Zelensky's words,
he himself does not yet have
a 'final position' on this matter.

President Donald Trump told reporters Tuesday
that he had heard Zelensky would come to the White House on Friday with hopes of getting the deal signed.

Trump, however, did not say that Zelensky had been formally invited."

Much more in the link:

Umowa Ukraina-USA. Biały Dom komentuje

Zamieszanie wokół umowy Ukraina-USA. Kijów poinformował wcześniej o osiągnięciu wstępnego porozumienia w tej sprawie. Biały Dom nie potwierdził jednak tej wersji, odnosząc się jednocześnie do słów prezydenta...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This is a long and complex article.... Showing strategic possibilities that America (i.e. trump) can take IF there are some agreements made in ukraine. But it is good food for thought for any and all of us.... to absorb the strategic possibilities, rather than acceptthe rosy words that are too easily manufactured.... The truth matters more than ever before.

With so much Domestic chaos, I am so afraid many or most Americans are just not paying attention Internationally. I am just so glad there are many folks from other countries on this thread. I learn more from all of you.

Trump always takes great pride in a fast win, but he is not one to stick around to bother picking up the pieces. moo.

At the end of the day, a Trump-Putin dialogue outlining the endgame of Russia’s war in Ukraine won’t be as much about Ukraine as President Zelenskyy would have liked. It will be about Trump getting his second term off on what he perceives to be a strong start⎯settling the Ukraine war as promised.

Where does this leave Russian responsibility to pay for Ukraine’s nearly $500 billion reconstruction? Likely nowhere Trump is interested in going. Zelenskyy will need to muster all of his considerable political and diplomatic skills to achieve a financial reckoning for Russia to rebuild his shattered country.

Trump’s Endgame for the War in Ukraine

An overview of how bargains between Trump and Putin may play out and leave impoverished the vital interests of Ukraine.

www.justsecurity.org

Donald Trump said on Tuesday there would be a need for "some form of peacekeeping" in Ukraine in the event of a peace deal

I do try to appreciate your optimism, but I just don't think any of us can be too naive to believe a rosy picture with anything going on in Ukraine, and the partnering with Russia.

"Some kind of peacekeeping" means "not my job man"...... This president does like his "quick win", the minerals.... and he will let everything else just be others work.


Another transparent, and key, aspect of Trump’s playbook is to get others to pay for what he needs.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Clearly if you read the contract, it's written in extremely simple form/language, the US will not own any mineral rights or land. 50% profit, after expenses will be matched by at 2/3 ratio US contribution. For every dollar they put in we put in two. It does not include any property ownership or any mineral rights for the United States. Mining and agriculture are the only two revenue generators the Ukraine government have. The Ukraine government will keep 50% of the profit and all profit from agriculture or any other generating source to use as they see fit.

Have any other countries offered to invest $2 for every dollar? NOPE

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by an international chess board power play?

Moo ...

"Developments in the last week now make clear that Trump not only appears to be opting for the bilateral mano-a-mano negotiations, and excluding the Ukrainians, but is also prepared to sacrifice Ukrainian interests, including its territory and possible membership in NATO."

Trump’s Endgame for the War in Ukraine

An overview of how bargains between Trump and Putin may play out and leave impoverished the vital interests of Ukraine.

www.justsecurity.org

 

[Dotta]

"Zelensky's Resource War: ​

'Hundreds of Billions to Earn'​

Deal worth hundreds of billions of dollars

Why is this agreement important for Kiev?

According to the expert,
this is a way to engage Americans in building Ukraine and stabilizing the situation in the country,
as well as a way to increase the American presence despite their reluctance to engage militarily.

'Secondly,
it is also a way to maintain the economic development of a country
that has lost key elements of its economy during the Russian invasion'
says an energy expert from the Energy Security Center.

He adds
that the agreement also gives hope that one day this cooperation will be expanded to include the seized areas of eastern Ukraine and Crimea,
which contain the most attractive deposits of raw materials.

'We are talking about tens,
if not hundreds of billions to earn together
on the exploration and extraction of raw materials,
including gas and oil.

It should be expected that in exchange for such considerable revenues,
the Americans will be heavily involved in Ukraine,
and all of their economic activities in the world also have military protection.

So for Ukrainians,
this is not only an economic gain,
but also a political and security one',
adds the expert."

More in the link:

Surowcowa wojna Zełenskiego. Są szczegóły umowy. "Do zarobienia setki miliardów"

Donald Trump zasugerował we wtorek, że spotka się w piątek z prezydentem Ukrainy Wołodymyrem Zełenskim, by podpisać umowę o minerałach. Znane są już szczegóły ramowego porozumienia pomiędzy krajami. - Mówimy o...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[branmuffin]

"US-Ukraine Agreement. ​

The text of the document has been published.​

View attachment 566488

The text of the US-Ukraine bilateral agreement has been published online.

The Ukrainian prime minister announced on Wednesday
that the government in Kiev would accept its terms the same day.

Three key assumptions of the Reconstruction Fund agreement:

1. Financing the reconstruction of Ukraine
The Fund will be financed mainly from revenues from Ukrainian natural resources.
According to the agreement,
50 percent of revenues from the exploitation of oil, gas and minerals will go to the Fund's account,
and additional support will be provided by the American side.

2. Joint management and reinvestment of funds
The fund will be managed jointly by representatives of the governments of Ukraine and the United States.
The funds collected will be
reinvested at least once a year
in the reconstruction of infrastructure, improvement of security and development of the economy of Ukraine.

3. Control mechanisms and investment protection
The agreement provides for mechanisms to prevent abuse, corruption and evasion of sanctions.
The United States has committed to protect mutual investments and support Ukraine in obtaining international security guarantees."

Much more in the link (the full text):

Umowa USA-Ukraina. Opublikowano treść dokumentu

W sieci opublikowana została treść dwustronnej umowy USA-Ukraina. Premier Ukrainy zapowiedział w środę, że rząd w Kijowie zaakceptuje jej warunki jeszcze tego samego dnia.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

As long as DOGE isn't overseeing the funding.

 

[Simply Southern]

This is a long and complex article.... Showing strategic possibilities that America (i.e. trump) can take IF there are some agreements made in ukraine. But it is good food for thought for any and all of us.... to absorb the strategic possibilities, rather than acceptthe rosy words that are too easily manufactured.... The truth matters more than ever before.

With so much Domestic chaos, I am so afraid many or most Americans are just not paying attention Internationally. I am just so glad there are many folks from other countries on this thread. I learn more from all of you.

Trump always takes great pride in a fast win, but he is not one to stick around to bother picking up the pieces. moo.

At the end of the day, a Trump-Putin dialogue outlining the endgame of Russia’s war in Ukraine won’t be as much about Ukraine as President Zelenskyy would have liked. It will be about Trump getting his second term off on what he perceives to be a strong start⎯settling the Ukraine war as promised.

Where does this leave Russian responsibility to pay for Ukraine’s nearly $500 billion reconstruction? Likely nowhere Trump is interested in going. Zelenskyy will need to muster all of his considerable political and diplomatic skills to achieve a financial reckoning for Russia to rebuild his shattered country.

Trump’s Endgame for the War in Ukraine

An overview of how bargains between Trump and Putin may play out and leave impoverished the vital interests of Ukraine.

www.justsecurity.org

I do try to appreciate your optimism, but I just don't think any of us can be too naive to believe a rosy picture with anything going on in Ukraine, and the partnering with Russia.

"Some kind of peacekeeping" means "not my job man"...... This president does like his "quick win", the minerals.... and he will let everything else just be others work.


Another transparent, and key, aspect of Trump’s playbook is to get others to pay for what he needs.

If you are concerned about Americans and I appreciate the concern. Might I ask ..Are you American?

The above is a forum, opinion group. Not MSM. Yes, the US could do any of he things listed but won't. Our goal is to see Ukraine independent, financially secure and living in a peaceful environment. Some just can't accept that.

Just because we do not have the resources to continue to fund the Ukraine war, does not mean that we do not care. The US is going through a significant deficit, laying off government employees, reducing funding projects, trying to correct our financial situation. We are 43 TRILLION dollars in debt. That means we have borrowed 43 TRILLION, owe a payment every month plus interest. Many European countries have expressed their financial concerns and would like to commit more but have limited resources. The president doesn't control the funding in the United States. It is controlled by Congress, the current bill in the House is a 4 trillion dollar reduction and the one in the Senate a five trillion dollar reduction. We're having to tighten the belt, so to speak, just like many other countries.

Again, if you read the contract we do not make any money, we can, many years from now recoup part of what we have PAID into the FUND.
Moo, respectfully

 

[Simply Southern]

"Developments in the last week now make clear that Trump not only appears to be opting for the bilateral mano-a-mano negotiations, and excluding the Ukrainians, but is also prepared to sacrifice Ukrainian interests, including its territory and possible membership in NATO."

Trump’s Endgame for the War in Ukraine

An overview of how bargains between Trump and Putin may play out and leave impoverished the vital interests of Ukraine.

www.justsecurity.org

Again this is not MSN, it's an opinion group.

 

[Simply Southern]

"Zelensky's Resource War: ​

'Hundreds of Billions to Earn'​

View attachment 566518

Deal worth hundreds of billions of dollars

Why is this agreement important for Kiev?

According to the expert,
this is a way to engage Americans in building Ukraine and stabilizing the situation in the country,
as well as a way to increase the American presence despite their reluctance to engage militarily.

'Secondly,
it is also a way to maintain the economic development of a country
that has lost key elements of its economy during the Russian invasion'
says an energy expert from the Energy Security Center.

He adds
that the agreement also gives hope that one day this cooperation will be expanded to include the seized areas of eastern Ukraine and Crimea,
which contain the most attractive deposits of raw materials.

'We are talking about tens,
if not hundreds of billions to earn together
on the exploration and extraction of raw materials,
including gas and oil.

It should be expected that in exchange for such considerable revenues,
the Americans will be heavily involved in Ukraine,
and all of their economic activities in the world also have military protection.

So for Ukrainians,
this is not only an economic gain,
but also a political and security one',
adds the expert."

More in the link:

Surowcowa wojna Zełenskiego. Są szczegóły umowy. "Do zarobienia setki miliardów"

Donald Trump zasugerował we wtorek, że spotka się w piątek z prezydentem Ukrainy Wołodymyrem Zełenskim, by podpisać umowę o minerałach. Znane są już szczegóły ramowego porozumienia pomiędzy krajami. - Mówimy o...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

That's the way I see the situation.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Again this is not MSN, it's an opinion group.

EVERYTHING concerning the future is opinion right now. I am concerned about the future, not the past.

This article was written two weeks ago, and I have kept it "close to my heart". And I suggest others do as well....... it projects, quite informatively, the possible scenarios in the future. This is what we are up to here....trying to sense what is really truthfully going to happen.......

yes, this group is a bit left of center....but their credibility is so high, that I have gone to them many times to get a true factual take.

Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Organization/Foundation
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

I know you are appropriately making a case for the ol' standard "in msm". But Ukraine is a living, breathing concern right now. I want Truth.

 

[Dotta]

Breaking News

"Zelensky in the White House. ​

There is a deadline for concluding an agreement with the US.​

US President Donald Trump
has confirmed Volodymyr Zelensky's visit to the White House.

A meeting is scheduled for Friday,
during which both sides will sign an agreement
on the exploitation of Ukrainian natural resources.

'Now it's confirmed.
We're going to sign an agreement
that's going to be a very big agreement',

Trump said during a Cabinet meeting on Wednesday."

More to come soon

Zełenski w Białym Domu. Jest termin zawarcia umowy z USA

Prezydent USA Donald Trump potwierdził wizytę Wołodymyra Zełenskiego w Białym Domu. W piątek zaplanowane zostało spotkanie, podczas którego obie strony podpiszą umowę o eksploatacji ukraińskich złóż naturalnych.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

Video at link

Trump says Zelenskyy is coming to the U.S. on Friday

Trump said at his Cabinet meeting that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will visit the U.S. on Friday. "We're going to be signing an agreement which

www.nbcnews.com

24m ago / 11:53 AM EST

Trump says Zelenskyy is coming to the U.S. on Friday
Trump confirms Zelenskyy will visit the U.S. on Friday
01:44
Trump said at his Cabinet meeting that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will visit the U.S. on Friday.

"We're going to be signing an agreement which will be a very big agreement," he said. Trump added that the agreement would be regarding rare earth minerals.