Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Amonet]

@Dotta just posted up thread .... Zelenskyy saying it's a bad deal and robbing Ukraine of their future.

He's also willing to resign for a NATO membership.

Now, he's considering the deal but only if Putin "ends the war".

Moo.... He's really playing this in the media.

I thought the whole point of this was about ending the war and working out the path forward?

He does play things in the media, Trump does too. I think this is what's made Zelensky perceived by many people around the world as a good wartime president. Trump is also very good at using this trait/ability.

When we hear these statements, we also have to think about who they're directed to. I think it's a positive for Zelensky to send a message to his own people that he doesn't want to do a bad deal. I think any leader would want to get the best deals they can for their nation whether in peacetime or wartime. Trump is also sending messages publicly that he is looking out for the US people in how he is looking at doing any deals with Ukraine. I think these are both fair positions and it's a normal part of negotiation strategies that has to be gone through to reach a deal. The tough one will be once they try to get to what Putin wants or will concede vs what Ukraine wants or will concede. That is what this is all leading up to and it's going to mean some very difficult decisions, and I think other nations or blocs assisting in negotiations is going to be important for Ukraine.

 

[Simply Southern]

The U.S. has pressured Ukraine to withdraw its European-backed U.N. resolution demanding an immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine in favor of an American proposal that does not mention Moscow’s invasion, a U.S. official and a European diplomat said Sunday.

But Ukraine refused to pull its draft resolution, and the U.N. General Assembly will vote on it Monday, the third anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, two European diplomats said.

US pressures Ukraine to nix its UN resolution demanding Russian forces withdraw

The U.S. has pressured Ukraine to withdraw its European-backed U.N. resolution demanding an immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine in favor of an American proposal that doesn't mention Moscow’s invasion.

apnews.com

Perfect timing, when trying to work towards peaceful negotiation. Wonder why you didn't issue this revolution last year? Zelenskyy just can't resist causing conflict. He's an actor, attention seeking can be expected. He clearly lacks negotiating skills and a blatant disregard for confidentiality, or respect for those trying to help him. He seems to enjoy I'm putting his allies in an uncomfortable situation.

The more he infuriates Putin, the less likely an end to the conflict, or less concessions for Ukraine.

 

[Simply Southern]

Jan poll shows Americans declining US support, increased support to end the war. (Lots of graphs)

More Americans Favor Quick End to Russia-Ukraine War

Americans are split over whether Ukraine should make concessions to promote a faster end to the war with Russia, a shift from prior readings, when they favored Ukraine fighting as long as needed to regain its captured territory.

news.gallup.com

....
More Americans Now Favor Quick End to the War

Gallup has measured Americans’ preferences for U.S. involvement in the Russia-Ukraine war six times since August 2022, about six months after Russia’s initial invasion. The current 48% support for the U.S. helping Ukraine reclaim the territory it has lost in the war with Russia marks the first time the reading has slipped below the majority level.

However, support for helping Ukraine for as long as necessary had been declining before now. While it ranged from 62% to 66% in three readings between August 2022 and June 2023, backing for potential prolonged U.S. involvement dropped eight percentage points in October 2023, to 54%, as the war continued. Views were steady in March before the latest shift.

 

[Dotta]

He's an actor, attention seeking can be expected. He clearly lacks negotiating skills and a blatant disregard for confidentiality, or respect for those trying to help him. He seems to enjoy I'm putting his allies in an uncomfortable situation.

The more he infuriates Putin, the less likely an end to the conflict, or less concessions for Ukraine.

President Wolodymyr Zelensky is a lawyer.
He graduated from Law Studies at the Krzyworoski Economic Institute (Kiev branch)

He is Ukrainian politician, satirist, actor, screenwriter, television presenter, film producer and entrepreneur,
lawyer by education.
From 2019, the President of Ukraine.

Wołodymyr Zełenski – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Simply Southern]

Oh yes he does! IF U.S. doesn't join the NATO troops. So - you don't care if he starts to invade the Baltic countries - especially where I live in Latvia?? Or Poland or - any of the "other" countries that were forced under Soviet rule back in 1945? I do!! After winning "our" freedom from Soviet rule - Aug. 21, 1991 - we have had freedom... I truly HOPE that does not change with trump's meddling. I shall have to flee to Sweden like my parents did back in 1944....

If Russia attacks a NATO country, I'm 100% sure the US would be a leader in the fight. Latvia and Poland are NATO nation's. US, NATO and Poland have built a state of the air missile defense system in Poland. US has troopers on the ground and much military equipment on the front line,in Poland. I often see US Blackhawks paroling the Polish border on flight tracker. Latvia has troops and conducts training operations for NATO troops.

What Zelenskys fighting/advocating for is continued direct financial support from the US, in additional to the billions NATO has spent, and the European countries. He wants "guaranteed protection" from Russian, which will require some type of "occupation" in Ukraine. He's wanted NATO since the date of his election.
Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

Zelenskyy ran on a campaign promise to end conflict with Russia. He was warned by many, including NATO. Didn't work out like he intended, resulting in the Russian invasion.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.....
During his presidential campaign, Zelenskyy promised to end Ukraine's protracted conflict with Russia, and he has attempted to engage in dialogue with Russian president Vladimir Putin.[13] His administration faced an escalation of tensions with Russia in 2021, culminating in Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, which is still ongoing. Zelenskyy's strategy during the Russian military buildup was to calm the Ukrainian populace and assure the international community that Ukraine was not seeking to retaliate.[14] He initially distanced himself from warnings of an imminent war, while also calling for security guarantees and military support from NATO to "withstand" the threat.[15]

When Russia launched its full-scale invasion, Zelenskyy remained in Kyiv, declining international offers to evacuate him from the capital under attack; he declared martial law across Ukraine and a general mobilisation of the armed forces.[16][17] Zelenskyy was named the Time Person of the Year for 2022.[18][5][19][20] He has frequently visited frontline and newly liberated areas,[21][22][23][24][25][26] and has regularly appeared unshaven and wearing an olive-green, military-style shirt instead of a suit.[27]

 

[Niner]

If Russia attacks a NATO country, I'm 100% sure the US would be a leader in the fight. Latvia and Poland are NATO nation's. US, NATO and Poland have built a state of the air missile defense system in Poland. US has troopers on the ground and much military equipment on the front line,in Poland. I often see US Blackhawks paroling the Polish border on flight tracker. Latvia has troops and conducts training operations for NATO troops.

What Zelenskys fighting/advocating for is continued direct financial support from the US, in additional to the billions NATO has spent, and the European countries. He wants "guaranteed protection" from Russian, which will require some type of "occupation" in Ukraine. He's wanted NATO since the date of his election.
Moo...

Yes - I know NATO has troops here in Latvia - just down the street! I have personally Thanked some of them! If anything "happens" I can always go to the U.S. Embassy here.

 

[Simply Southern]

President Wolodymyr Zelensky is a lawyer.
He graduated from Law Studies at the Krzyworoski Economic Institute (Kiev branch)

He is Ukrainian politician, satirist, actor, screenwriter, television presenter, film producer and entrepreneur,
lawyer by education.
From 2019, the President of Ukraine.

Wołodymyr Zełenski – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.m.wikipedia.org

In the article it states he did receive a degree, never practiced law and chose a career in the entertainment business. Makes me wonder why he never practiced law.
The article is full of a lot of information about him, it's helped me better understand his behavior.
Moo

 

[Dotta]

'EC chief in Kiev. ​

Tough stance towards the Kremlin.​

'It is obvious that unless Russia demonstrates real readiness to achieve a lasting and just peace,
we will increase punitive sanctions against Russia',
said Ursula Von der Leyen.

The head of the European Commission is in Kiev on Monday.

This day marks three years since the beginning of the Russian aggression against Ukraine.

'We see that the sanctions are already having a huge effect.
They have led to huge inflation.
Companies are leaving Russia.
These sanctions are part of our approach in which we want peace through strength',
emphasized the head of the European Commission,
asked about possible further EU actions towards Putin and the Kremlin."

Ani kroku wstecz. Szefowa KE stanowczo o warunkach dla Rosji

- Jest to oczywiste, że o ile Rosja nie zademonstruje realnej gotowości, aby osiągnąć trwały i sprawiedliwy pokój, zwiększymy te sankcje karne przeciwko Rosji - mówił Ursula Von der Leyen. Szefowa KE przebywa w...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

Yes - I know NATO has troops here in Latvia - just down the street! I have personally Thanked some of them! If anything "happens" I can always go to the U.S. Embassy here.

I live in a flight path training area. I hear the roar and the ground shake, as flighter jets fly out skies. They fly so low, many times we can see the pilots, and occasionally throw us a wave. Makes chills run down my spine.
Moo

 

[Dotta]

"These were Donald Trump's first words after his conversation with Putin. ​

Could it be that he miscalculated?​

'There are no signs of a decrease in the intensity of Russian attacks on Ukraine',
military analysts say.

Quite the opposite:
Russia launched a record number of drones during a recent night attack.

Meanwhile,
12 days have passed since Trump's phone call with Putin,
after which he famously said:
'I think President Putin wants peace'.

An analyst of events in the war in Ukraine,
believes that Russia's course may harden.

'Instead of announcing the end of the conflict,
Vladimir Putin will outline a new phase of confrontation with the West.

He will warn individual countries about the consequences of further support for Ukraine
and announce plans to further intensify military operations'.

'The Ukrainians boast about their successes,
the Russians boast about their successes,
but there are no significant changes on the front line.
There are no breakthrough shifts that would indicate that one side has some greater success',
one of the experts sums up.

He emphasizes that although there are many words,
there is no visible strategy or plan on the American side.

According to the analysis of 'Wall Street Journal'
Russia does not want a quick ceasefire and plans to drag out the peace talks indefinitely,
in order to use the situation on the battlefield to determine the terms of ending the war."

Much more in the link

To były pierwsze słowa Donalda Trumpa po rozmowie z Putinem. Czyżby się przeliczył?

Nie ma oznak wskazujących na zmniejszenie intensywności rosyjskich ataków na Ukrainę - oceniają analitycy wojskowi. Wręcz przeciwnie: Rosja odpaliła rekordową liczbę dronów podczas niedanego nocnego ataku....

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

Moo. I am so mad, Zelenskyy yelling at any US official. Trump is a better person than I am. I would have walked away days ago. He certainly has no self control, I see why they don't let him anywhere near negotiation with Putin. And have us all in world war III within minutes. I'm trying to keep in mind, we need to try to save those that are dying everyday.

Furious Zelensky 'screamed at Trump's envoy' over woeful mineral deal

Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into the US Treasury Secretary

www.dailymail.co.uk

Volodymyr Zelensky furiously erupted at a senior member of Donald Trump's administration and left him trembling with fear, it was claimed today, as the US and Ukraine inch closer to a deal to end the Ukraine war.
.....
Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into Bessent for expecting him to 'sell his country' to Washington.

'He was very angry,' a person present told the Financial Times, explaining how the gilded doors of Zelensky's presidential office did nothing to stop those outside from hearing every word of the verbal beatdown.

Bessent was visibly shaken, his voice trembling as he delivered a stumbling statement to reporters moments after enduring the wrath of the Ukrainian President.

It comes as Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov today declared Moscow would 'stop hostilities only when negotiations produce a firm and sustainable result that suits the Russian Federation'.

Meanwhile, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accused Europe and the UK of prolonging the fighting in response to a fresh package of sanctions levelled by Brussels.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If Russia attacks a NATO country, I'm 100% sure the US would be a leader in the fight. Latvia and Poland are NATO nation's. US, NATO and Poland have built a state of the air missile defense system in Poland. US has troopers on the ground and much military equipment on the front line,in Poland. I often see US Blackhawks paroling the Polish border on flight tracker. Latvia has troops and conducts training operations for NATO troops.

What Zelenskys fighting/advocating for is continued direct financial support from the US, in additional to the billions NATO has spent, and the European countries. He wants "guaranteed protection" from Russian, which will require some type of "occupation" in Ukraine. He's wanted NATO since the date of his election.
Moo...

I agree that the US would be the lead nation if Russia attacks NATO. Estonia and Lithuania are also NATO members which fellow NATO members will defend if attacked. JMO.

https://shape.nato.int/estonia

https://shape.nato.int/lithuania

 

[sds71]

Inside the proposed U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal:​

https://www.axios.com/2025/02/24/ukraine-mineral-deal-zelensky-trump

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894060181576642586

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Oh yes he does! IF U.S. doesn't join the NATO troops. So - you don't care if he starts to invade the Baltic countries - especially where I live in Latvia?? Or Poland or - any of the "other" countries that were forced under Soviet rule back in 1945? I do!! After winning "our" freedom from Soviet rule - Aug. 21, 1991 - we have had freedom... I truly HOPE that does not change with trump's meddling. I shall have to flee to Sweden like my parents did back in 1944....

Russia has not been able defeat Ukraine after three years of fighting. I don't see them being able to defeat the 32 member strong NATO and other countries that would surely help. JMO.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm

 

[Dotta]

Moo. I am so mad, Zelenskyy yelling at any US official. Trump is a better person than I am. I would have walked away days ago. He certainly has no self control, I see why they don't let him anywhere near negotiation with Putin. And have us all in world war III within minutes. I'm trying to keep in mind, we need to try to save those that are dying everyday.

Furious Zelensky 'screamed at Trump's envoy' over woeful mineral deal

Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into the US Treasury Secretary

www.dailymail.co.uk

Volodymyr Zelensky furiously erupted at a senior member of Donald Trump's administration and left him trembling with fear, it was claimed today, as the US and Ukraine inch closer to a deal to end the Ukraine war.
.....
Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into Bessent for expecting him to 'sell his country' to Washington.

'He was very angry,' a person present told the Financial Times, explaining how the gilded doors of Zelensky's presidential office did nothing to stop those outside from hearing every word of the verbal beatdown.

Bessent was visibly shaken, his voice trembling as he delivered a stumbling statement to reporters moments after enduring the wrath of the Ukrainian President.

It comes as Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov today declared Moscow would 'stop hostilities only when negotiations produce a firm and sustainable result that suits the Russian Federation'.

Meanwhile, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accused Europe and the UK of prolonging the fighting in response to a fresh package of sanctions levelled by Brussels.

"Left him trembling with fear"???

"bellows reverberated through the halls"

Honestly,
this sounds like gossips' tale.

Let's be serious hahaha

 

[Vern]

On today's Anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine's sovereign territory, a link to Ukraine's Budapest Memorandum of 1994 ... for which it gave up it's nuclear arsenal in return for assurances of peace, security and protection. Glad to see non-signatory nations stepping up to fill in the gap.

1994 Budapest Memorndum:

Full text of the Actual Agreement with Signatures: from pages 167to 171, Pages 167-172 (Ukraine, Russian, Britain & United States Signatures at 172)
Paras 3 & 4 are eye-opening:
Protection from:
"Economic Coersion"; and
"Protection from Aggression".

Abstract
On December 5, 1994, leaders of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Russian Federation met in Budapest, Hungary, to pledge security assurances to Ukraine in connection with its accession to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapons state. The signature of the so-called Budapest Memorandum concluded arduous negotiations that resulted in Ukraine’s agreement to relinquish the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal, which the country inherited from the collapsed Soviet Union, and transfer all nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantlement. The signatories of the memorandum pledged to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force. Russia breached these commitments with its annexation of Crimea in 2014 and aggression in eastern Ukraine, bringing the meaning and value of security assurance pledged in the Memorandum under renewed scrutiny.

.

 

[JDG]

Furious Zelensky 'screamed at Trump's envoy' over woeful mineral deal

Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into the US Treasury Secretary

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JDG]

Perfect timing, when trying to work towards peaceful negotiation. Wonder why you didn't issue this revolution last year? Zelenskyy just can't resist causing conflict. He's an actor, attention seeking can be expected. He clearly lacks negotiating skills and a blatant disregard for confidentiality, or respect for those trying to help him. He seems to enjoy I'm putting his allies in an uncomfortable situation.

The more he infuriates Putin, the less likely an end to the conflict, or less concessions for Ukraine.

Well, we’d better not infuriate Putin……Gawd forbid.

 

[branmuffin]

Yes, the Afghan withdrawal was a train wreck. That was under the Biden administration. Moo

If I remember correctly Biden followed Trump's plan for withdrawal from Afghanistan. It's almost like Trump hedged his bet by playing both sides; if he lost he'd know that many Americans would blame Biden for a chaotic withdrawal. Mission accomplished. If he won, he would ignore the deal he made with the Taliban (like the 2018 USMCA deal that HE brokered saying the US was getting the better deal) and do basically what he's doing now. Causing chaos. Ultimately it was a draw. Nil/Nil in soccer speak.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/biden-report-afghanistan-withdrawal-blames-trump-2023-04-06/

Ex-US generals who oversaw Afghan exit describe chaos and challenges of withdrawal

Two former top generals testified to Congress about the "strategic failure" to prevent a Taliban takeover.

www.bbc.com