Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Betty P]

Russian warship tracked near British waters​

IMAGE SOURCE, ROYAL NAVY
Image caption,
HMS Somerset (rear) followed Russian corvette Boikiy (front) through the English Channel

The Royal Navy says it has tracked a Russian warship through the English Channel and North Sea for three days.

The Russian corvette, named Boikiy, was part of a task group escorting a cargo ship on its return from Syria to Russia.

Patrol aircraft and Nato forces also assisted with the monitoring operation, the Navy says.

Boikiy is one of several Russian vessels to have been spotted around the British coastline in recent months.

The operation comes two weeks after the Navy monitored five ships, including three merchant vessels, as they sailed for a Russian Baltic port from Syria. More here on what we know about the Navy's operation.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

King Charles III visited a British Aircraft Carrier on Tuesday. In his military uniform.

King Charles III, a Quiet Diplomat, is Stepping Up

As he welcomed the leaders of Ukraine and Canada to his country estate this week, the king was sending a message to the world.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Betty P]

"Frederiksen reasserted her position in a heated 45-minute phone exchange with Trump last week, according to a report in the Financial Times., external

The newspaper quoted an anonymous European official as saying the conversation was "horrendous", and another saying Trump's interest in acquiring Greenland was is "serious, and potentially very dangerous".

"In recent years, there has been increased interest in Greenland's natural resources, including mining for rare earth minerals, uranium and iron.

Though the island has wide-ranging autonomy, it remains part of the kingdom of Denmark."

Another minerals blackmail deal? JMO MOO

Donald Trump says he believes the US will 'get Greenland'

The president told reporters the island's 57,000 residents "want to be with us".

www.bbc.co.uk

Trump is just using his bullying tactics. A national disgrace. He'll back off when it looks like he isn't going to get what he wants. Then he'll lie and distract to make it look like he still won. JMO

 

[Summerliz03]

I am curious about what US military think of our capitulating to Russia, against our allies. Especially the older, retired members. I would like to talk to my grandfathers about it, but, they are unfortunately gone.

This goes through my head almost every day. Are Trump supporters that brainwashed that they are just blindly agreeing with the pro-Russia leanings, despite so many of them being older and living through the Cold War. I could perhaps see it in the younger people who may not be as aware of the history, but so many of them are 60+ years old and it truly boggles my mind to see them all flip on this issue and side with Russia. I’m in my mid-40’s so I have fuzzy memories of the Berlin Wall coming down but I was taught all about the Cold War in school, as well as just hearing my grandfathers (both veterans) talk about it growing up. To see that demographic become so anti-Ukraine and repeating Russia propaganda is one of the saddest part of all of this. We are so quickly alienating our closest allies and none of them seem to have a problem with it. All IMO.

 

[JennieM]

Diplomatic calls continue between Zelensky and European leaders​

After a call with Germany's leader, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says he has also spoken with the Portuguese prime minister.

Zelensky says he appreciates Portugal's support in both a "military and political" capacity and shared with Prime Minister Luis Montenegro details of what happened at a London leaders' summit that took place last week.

Zelensky adds that he will be in contact with "all European partners" to discuss next steps, as it is important to them that "every country’s voice is considered in the joint plan".

The head of his office has also been assisting the efforts. He says he called the adviser to the French president and the UK prime minister today.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

I pray that Europe can help Ukraine so that they don’t have to sign Trump’s deal.

 

[Stella123]

I pray that Europe can help Ukraine so that they don’t have to sign Trump’s deal.

I'm not sure. Maybe Europe will be Starmer has been clear that the Uk needs the US and Europe onboard. He doesn't want the Uk to be seen to be "taking sides" with Europe against the US IMO. His "plan" involves the US being onboard as well.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

"Fox News' Jacqui Heinrich, the network's senior White House correspondent, reported on X, formerly Twitter, that U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent told Fox News, "There is no signing planned."

Also on Tuesday, multiple sources told CBS News that a deal is not finalized. The network also reported that Trump is now holding out for a "bigger, better deal."

White House pushes back on possible US-Ukraine mineral de...

If signed, a mineral deal would strengthen relations between Washington and Kyiv despite the rift between Trump and Zelensky.

www.newsweek.com

No signing planned, deal not finalised, Trump "holding out for a bigger, better deal." What does this mean? It sounds like the deal on the US side has changed and is perhaps less favourable to Ukraine. This is a common business and legal tactic - just sit there and say nothing and don't respond. JMO MOO

This just smacks of the whole thing being planned. It was a total ambush and this looks to be their end goal. They had no intention of signing a deal with VZ as it was, and they manufactured an excuse to tighten the terms, and use extortion to ensure Zelenskyy is left with no choice. They want to hand Ukraine to Russia on a silver platter IMO.
It's a disgrace. I would say I'd be glad when this comes back to bite them and Trumpnis the one trying to save his country from Russia, but I don't wish it on my friends, and rhe many other decent people of America who didn't and wouldn't choose this.

 

[JennieM]

Intelligence sharing pause will have 'immediate impact', says ex-defence official​

Bernd Debusmann Jr
Reporting from the White House

Mick Mulroy, a former official at the US Department of Defense, tells the BBC he believes that cutting off intelligence to Ukraine "will have an immediate impact" on Ukraine’s ability to defend itself fully.

"There is no way to replace the capabilities that the US intelligence can provide from our European allies," says Mulroy, former deputy assistant secretary of defense and retired CIA paramilitary officer.

"This will likely inspire Russia to push harder on their efforts to take more terrain from Ukraine and away from the negotiating table."

With regards to broader military assistance, Mulroy says he believes that any shortfalls would have a "significant impact" starting around May of this year. "That is when they will start running out of ammunition."

Mulroy believes "the best way to ensure that Russia agrees is to present a unified front with Ukraine and Europe".

"Russia only responds to strength," he says. "Not compliments or concessions."

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

1m ago11.49 EST
Former senior RAF officer Greg Bagwell said that stopping intelligence will “cost Ukrainian lives”.

Posting on X, Bagwell, who was previously a deputy commander at RAF Air Command said:

The withholding of aid was bad enough, but ceasing intel will cost Ukrainian lives today.

It is unconscionable that this would be used as a tactic to drag the innocent party to the negotiating table.

Intel sharing costs nothing so this is entirely vindictive and manipulative.

Macron open to extending France’s nuclear umbrella to European allies as US reconsiders Ukraine funding – as it happened

French president says he will debate offer at European summit to be attended by Ukraine’s president Zelenskyy

www.theguardian.com

 

[LoveyG]

This goes through my head almost every day. Are Trump supporters that brainwashed that they are just blindly agreeing with the pro-Russia leanings, despite so many of them being older and living through the Cold War. I could perhaps see it in the younger people who may not be as aware of the history, but so many of them are 60+ years old and it truly boggles my mind to see them all flip on this issue and side with Russia. I’m in my mid-40’s so I have fuzzy memories of the Berlin Wall coming down but I was taught all about the Cold War in school, as well as just hearing my grandfathers (both veterans) talk about it growing up. To see that demographic become so anti-Ukraine and repeating Russia propaganda is one of the saddest part of all of this. We are so quickly alienating our closest allies and none of them seem to have a problem with it. All IMO.

Many of us also remember the bomb drills we had to have in school. For younger folks, just like fire drills, schools had to participate in drills for incoming bombs, during the cold war.

Edit: to clarify, this is in the US.

 

[crussell821]

When it come to Trump, I honestly believe cruelty is the point. MOO

For all Trump must be annoyed and doing hard business, this is cruel. There is urgency in the matter. JMO MOO

This is not the time for "showing who is boss", this is the time for being reasonable and humanitarian. JMO MOO

 

[Stella123]

This just smacks of the whole thing being planned. It was a total ambush and this looks to be their end goal. They had no intention of signing a deal with VZ as it was, and they manufactured an excuse to tighten the terms, and use extortion to ensure Zelenskyy is left with no choice. They want to hand Ukraine to Russia on a silver platter IMO.
It's a disgrace. I would say I'd be glad when this comes back to bite them and Trumpnis the one trying to save his country from Russia, but I don't wish it on my friends, and rhe many other decent people of America who didn't and wouldn't choose this.

I think the same. MOO

 

[Stella123]

Trump creating more humiliation for Zelensky by Zelensky having to be reasonable and diplomatic, while his men are killed because Trump is witholding intelligence and supplies. It's absolutely sick. It's psychological warfare from Trump (or Putin through Trump?) at Ukraine and Zelensky. JMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 235284]

I doubt it was planned the whole oval office disaster. Seemed everything was great, until it blew up because certain things were taken the wrong way.

 

[Marantz4250b]

That's a point. One way to end the war is if some secret mission could capture Putin - he is a wanted war criminal with an arrest out for him. Has no one considered that? A secret mission? JMO MOO

The very real problem you have there is who replaces him?

There is the additional problem that once you have him, is he then a point of leverage from either side?

We could just have him killed but two problems;

a) as above, who replaces him?

And;

b) that is falling to his level, and importantly, killing political opponents and wiping out regimes - especially nuclear armed ones - is fraught with danger. You can't have the result being a chaotic state with lots of people running around like headless chickens vying for power who might do some very silly things.

There is an excellent TV movie from the late 80's/early 90's called "By Dawn's Early Light" with Rebecca De-Mornay and Powers Booth. They played B-52 pilots when a nuclear confrontation kicked off. Many years since I've seen it but one of the plot points (if I recall correctly) was to send their bomber on a specific mission to kill the Soviet Premier, or possibly the entire Kremlin staff, as they knew where their bunker was or something along those lines. So ordered by a basically unhinged US President (art predicting future events?) played by the most excellent James Earl Jones, IIRC.

Anyway, RDM's character said something along the lines of we know that's not the protocol - you need someone left to turn it off!

Going back to the "who replaces him point"; it's well known that the British had an advanced plan to kill Hitler reasonably early on in the war. I think it had a reasonably high chance of success - although quite low survival chances for the shooter. We still had a willing participant, though, and I think it went as far as mocking up the exact shot with specially constructed replicas of the place.

Anyway, in the event it was never initiated due to the fact that Hitler was basically a complete loon (our best man in Germany I think he was referred to) and that pretty much anyone who would take his place would be much more capable of pursuing the war far more successfully.

One of the potential replacements, I believe, was Reinhard Heidrich. A man who was completely and utterly ruthless and who also knew what he was doing militarily.

Killing Hitler would probably have resulted in the west - and that includes the US - being subjects of the Greater Nazi Reich like the MITHC I've mentioned before and the slaughter required to get there would have been immense.

Taking Putin - dead or alive - would very likely result in a less stable situation than the one we are currently in, imho.

 

[JennieM]

Former intelligence official fears signal being sent to US allies

Bernd Debusmann Jr
Reporting from the White House

I've been speaking to a few current and former officials in the US national security apparatus about the US decision to pause intelligence sharing with Ukraine.

One contact of mine – a former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer – tells the BBC he is concerned that the "betrayal of an ally" would having a chilling effect on other intelligence partnerships that the US has around the world.

He describes the Trump administration's strategy as "responding with emotions" rather than a long-term strategy, which he fears plays into the hands of Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Traditionally, the former official adds, intelligence-sharing agreements are strictly "non-political" and designed to survive shifts in domestic politics.

A dramatic sudden shift in intelligence sharing – which he describes as being the result of "bruised egos" – is largely unprecedented.

He adds that he believes "it's going to be a long four-years" if the Trump administration frays alliances overseas.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Betty P]

The very real problem you have there is who replaces him?

There is the additional problem that once you have him, is he then a point of leverage from either side?

We could just have him killed but two problems;

a) as above, who replaces him?

And;

b) that is falling to his level, and importantly, killing political opponents and wiping out regimes - especially nuclear armed ones - is fraught with danger. You can't have the result being a chaotic state with lots of people running around like headless chickens vying for power who might do some very silly things.

There is an excellent TV movie from the late 80's/early 90's called "By Dawn's Early Light" with Rebecca De-Mornay and Powers Booth. They played B-52 pilots when a nuclear confrontation kicked off. Many years since I've seen it but one of the plot points (if I recall correctly) was to send their bomber on a specific mission to kill the Soviet Premier, or possibly the entire Kremlin staff, as they knew where their bunker was or something along those lines. So ordered by a basically unhinged US President (art predicting future events?) played by the most excellent James Earl Jones, IIRC.

Anyway, RDM's character said something along the lines of we know that's not the protocol - you need someone left to turn it off!

Going back to the "who replaces him point"; it's well known that the British had an advanced plan to kill Hitler reasonably early on in the war. I think it had a reasonably high chance of success - although quite low survival chances for the shooter. We still had a willing participant, though, and I think it went as far as mocking up the exact shot with specially constructed replicas of the place.

Anyway, in the event it was never initiated due to the fact that Hitler was basically a complete loon (our best man in Germany I think he was referred to) and that pretty much anyone who would take his place would be much more capable of pursuing the war far more successfully.

One of the potential replacements, I believe, was Reinhard Heidrich. A man who was completely and utterly ruthless and who also knew what he was doing militarily.

Killing Hitler would probably have resulted in the west - and that includes the US - being subjects of the Greater Nazi Reich like the MITHC I've mentioned before and the slaughter required to get there would have been immense.

Taking Putin - dead or alive - would very likely result in a less stable situation than the one we are currently in, imho.

He'll be replaced with Vance. If Vance breaks laws, he can also be replaced. IIRC, a similar progression happened from Nixon to Agnew to Ford. The US survived and moved forward.

 

[JennieM]

Zelensky preparing for EU meeting in Brussels tomorrow​

Vitaliy Shevchenko
Russia editor, BBC Monitoring

Away from the US, President Zelensky also says Ukraine is hoping to "resume movement" in talks about EU membership: "We are expecting support from our partners."

The Ukrainian president adds that earlier today he spoke to the prime ministers of the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia, as well as the German chancellor.

"We are getting ready for the EU summit taking place in Brussels tomorrow," he says.

"Everyone can see how fast diplomatic events are unfolding."

​

Zelensky says 'positive movement' on meeting with US​

Vitaliy Shevchenko
Russia editor, BBC Monitoring

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says progress has been achieved in talks with the US on a new meeting between the two countries’ representatives.

He says the head of the Ukrainian presidential staff, Andriy Yermak, had spoken to US National Security Adviser Mike Waltz earlier today.

"There’s been positive movement. We are expecting first results next week," Zelensky says in his evening video address posted on social media.

Zelensky does not specify whether the new meeting with the US would involve himself and Donald Trump.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

1m ago18.14 GMT

Zelenskyy says diplomatic events 'unfolding quickly' and 'positive movement' with US relations​

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said there has been “positive movement” in the relationship with US that could lead to another meeting between the two sides soon.

In a statement posted to X, Zelenskyy said “a lot of international work” had been done on Wednesday, and that he had spoken with the leaders of the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia and Germany. “Thank you for all the support,” he said.

Zelenskyy said he was preparing for the summit of EU leaders in Brussels on Thursday. “Everyone can see how quickly diplomatic events are unfolding,” he wrote.

Today, the Ukrainian and American teams began working on an upcoming meeting. Andriy Yermak (Zelenskyy’s chief of staff) and Mike Waltz (US national security adviser) have spoken, and there’s positive movement. We hope to see some results next week.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

.

Wed 5 Mar 2025 01.21 GMT​

Ukraine war briefing: Deadly Odesa drone attack cuts power, water and heating for second day​

Woman aged 77 died of shrapnel wounds; Zelenskyy offers minerals deal signature and peace plan. What we know on day 1,106

Ukraine war briefing: Deadly Odesa drone attack cuts power, water and heating for second day

Woman aged 77 died of shrapnel wounds; Zelenskyy offers minerals deal signature and peace plan. What we know on day 1,106

www.theguardian.com

For those who don't know: Odessa has own spirit, it is a customs city, akin to Marseille known for its humor for centuries. They were able to laugh even at the war calamities. When the water in the fountains would stop at 6:58 pm instead of 7 pm, they'd humoristically complain to local communal services on "habitual underfilling of water".
I just got some Google photos of Odessa.

iStock

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www.istockphoto.com

I should try to find some Odessa jokes understandable in English which is not easy as it is language-based.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I am curious about what US military think of our capitulating to Russia, against our allies. Especially the older, retired members. I would like to talk to my grandfathers about it, but, they are unfortunately gone.

This is a very salient point. I get the impression that the vast majority of the US forces are deeply honourable men and women - especially the senior ones and those who have served for many years.

Annexing Greenland or the Panama Canal is illegal in the extreme and, under their oath, an illegal order need not, indeed MUST NOT, be complied with! Illegal orders trump The Trumpeter!

The decent, respectable and honourable people who pass on the supreme commander's orders in the upper echelons of the US military will, I have no doubt at all, have been doing much soul searching for many weeks now and especially over the past few days.

Trump's big failing is that the people charged with actually implementing his orders are actually the ones with the integrity and the honesty. The US military is not going to be carrying out anything clearly illegal, immoral or lacking in honour any time soon, I don't think.