Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[LovesPeace2]

Dozen Teslas torched outside French dealership: authorities. A handful of anti-Tesla actions have occurred in Europe since Elon Musk's rapprochement with US President Donald Trump, his backing of European far-right parties and attacks on diversity

 

[SouthAussie]

If China decides to attack the US, we will certainly engage. I don't think that's a fight they're willing to take to the battlefield.
The US stands ready and able to defend our country. We got weapons, lots of weapons. The US warehouse's as well as warehouses around the world full of weapons.

We are not afraid of China.
Moo

I just want to clarify. If the US wants tariffs, fair enough.

The diplomatic way to go about that is to call a meeting with the relative party (in this case, China) and tell them "look this is killing us, your products are flooding our country, our manufacturing is down the gurgler, we don't seem to be able to stop our companies from coming to you for cheap production, we need to work out some different kind of agreement".

The undiplomatic way is to announce to the press "tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, if they don't like we are prepared to go to war".

imo

 

[UK Girl]

Oh I don't think the UK is giving up on the US. Our military is one of the strongest in the world. UK has not fully funded their own defense. They need the US, that's what the arguments about. The European countries do not want to provide peacekeepers without a US backstop. The US has said no. The European countries are mad about it. They need to redirect their focus on their own funding for defense.

The European countries have partnered together. They have failed to partner with countries outside of their European sector. They are operating in a paradigm.

The US has developed relationship with allies in many parts of the world, other than Europe. The US has strong allies with Middle Eastern countries and Israel, both having strong military, both overfunding their own defense. They pay their own way. You're not reliant on another country to fund their defense.

I think the European countries are trying to run out the clock knowing the US will take the lead and negotiating a peace agreement. If they were truly committed, then open up their stockpile and start shipping immediately.
Moo....

I am going to be honest and say I dont think you understand what the issue is. The argument is not that we need the US at all and tbh we also get on with countries around the world..perhaps better than America does these days.

 

[statt#1]

Dozen Teslas torched outside French dealership: authorities. A handful of anti-Tesla actions have occurred in Europe since Elon Musk's rapprochement with US President Donald Trump, his backing of European far-right parties and attacks on diversity

Not surprising. We here in the U.S. have leftist organizations that set entire cities ablaze when things don't go their way.

 

[UK Girl]

I'm fully understand the point. The US has made the decision to no longer fund the Ukraine war. We have that right, we have no legal obligation to Ukraine.

It's irrelevant you gave what it just point. The focus now ... Are European countries going to step up and continue their support to fund the Ukraine war. They need to spend less time on what the US is not going to do and focus on what they are going to do?

Unlike America Europe have never stopped any support to the Ukraine war. Likewise...unlike what you may think Europe has sent plenty of weapons to help Ukraine and its people

 

[UK Girl]

Democracy vs Communism, current battleground is, unfortunately, Ukraine. Cuban missile crisis. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Global strategic chess moves.

It's easy for France, UK, all of Europe to scream for continued war while thousands die in Ukraine...let that escalate to the sons and daughters of Europe coming home in body bags, then that tune might change.

Trump represents the U.S. He is not of the warhawk ilk that in recent election was crushed in all branches of U.S. government.

The U.S. isn't abandoning Europe, not even close. The U.S. is calling to end the butchery in Ukraine.

Those who call for continued bloodshed, death, and destruction are baffling to me.

Like the sons of Europe came home in bodybags from helping America in wars? One of which at least was illegal??

 

[Simply Southern]

I just want to clarify. If the US wants tariffs, fair enough.

The diplomatic way to go about that is to call a meeting with the relative party (in this case, China) and tell them "look this is killing us, your products are flooding our country, our manufacturing is down the gurgler, we need to work out some different kind of agreement".

The undiplomatic way is to announce to the press "tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, if they don't like we are prepared to go to war".

imo

The US has had a long history with China's unfair trade. Trump administration placed tariffs on China during his first administration.

They were so effective. Biden administration chose not to remove them.

China–United States trade war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Australia has tariffs

History of tariffs in Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UK Girl]

No the US said, we will not send troops into Ukraine. He stated European countries CAN provide troops, if they choose to.

I'm based my comment on European countries not fully funding their defense on comments made by the UK and others at recent ,meeting. The meeting's last week and this week a focused on funding for defense. UK and France I've been front and center with their citizens that additional funding will be needed the fully protect their country.
If they fully funded their defenses, why are they not pulling out of their defense stock piles? They should have warehouses full of missiles and combat gear.

Maybe they have funded their stockpiles. Why are they not using them to help Ukraine? The recent 2 billion dollar UK Grant for missiles is for production. Mot even made the missiles yet. If they truly wanted to help why not purchase from a company that has missiles in stock? What donate lightweight missiles, not long range heavy duty missiles.
Moo

MSN

....
LONDON (Reuters) -British Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Sunday announced a new 1.6 billion pound ($2 billion) deal that would allow Ukraine to purchase 5,000 air-defence missiles using export finance.

Britain's Ministry of Defence said Thales will manufacture the lightweight-multirole missiles for Ukraine
.

<modsnip> we have been providing missiles since the start of this war?? Secondly Trump said..that Europe will provide people for the peacekeeping. That America would not. That Ukraine is our neighbour and you have the Ocean between you and Europe. <modsnip: Please don't personalize>

 

[PommyMommy]

All night, a rescue operation continued in Kryvyi Rih at the site of a Russian missile strike. A ballistic missile struck an ordinary hotel. Just before the attack, volunteers from a humanitarian organization – citizens of Ukraine, the United States, and the United Kingdom – had checked into the hotel. They survived because they managed to get down from their rooms in time. Unfortunately, four people were killed in this attack. My condolences to their families and loved ones.

In total, more than 30 people were injured, and all have received the necessary medical assistance. Many civilian buildings around the hotel were also damaged. Rescue workers are still on-site, and all emergency services continue to operate.

I thank everyone who is on duty these days and nights, working and serving to save lives. My gratitude goes out to the State Emergency Service of Ukraine, the National Police, medical workers, emergency responders, and all those whose work helps save lives. There must be no pause in the pressure on Russia to stop this war and terror against life.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897553037146628266

 

[SouthAussie]

The US has had a long history with China's unfair trade. Trump administration placed tariffs on China during his first administration.

They were so effective. Biden administration chose not to remove them.

China–United States trade war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Australia has tariffs

History of tariffs in Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As I said ... not a problem with tariffs. It is the way a country goes about negotiating them. The US is not negotiating, it is strong arming and not discussing with the relevant countries, which is provocative.

Whoever would have thought a mild-mannered country like Canada would have felt so provoked - that is how harsh the US non-diplomacy currently is.

imo

 

[UK Girl]

They are admitting to the world and the press is reporting they are saying they have not fully funded their defense. They are saying they have relied on the US. It's coming from the European leaders.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/europes-options-paying-bolster-its-defence-readiness-2025-02-18/

BRUSSELS, March 4 (Reuters) - European Union leaders will discuss on Thursday how to finance a sharp increase in defence readiness to deter any possible future attack from Russia and become less dependent for security on the United States.
The European Commission on Tuesday proposed several ways to raise the funds that would add up to around 800 billion euros over several years. Below are the ideas put forward:

NEW JOINT EU BORROWING​

The EU could borrow 150 billion euros against the security of the EU budget to provide loans to governments for defence investment. The borrowing could be decided with qualified majority of EU governments, so no single country could block it.

The factory in Ireland producing stuff would be in the future to help Ukraine protect themself. It says clearly "
BRUSSELS, March 4 (Reuters) - European Union leaders will discuss on Thursday how to finance a sharp increase in defence readiness to deter any possible future attack from Russia and become less dependent for security on the United States.
The European Commission on Tuesday proposed several ways to raise the funds that would add up to around 800 billion euros over several years. Below are the ideas put forward:" ...to clarify.."possible future attack". Not the current one.

 

[UK Girl]

Oh yes, truth...indeed we are prepared

Really? when previously you have asked for other peoples help? Against smaller countries.

 

[PommyMommy]

I met with Belgian Prime Minister @Bart_DeWever in Brussels. I thanked the government and all Belgians for their support, particularly for the decision to transfer F-16 fighter jets. We greatly appreciate these strong steps to protect Ukrainian lives.

I informed the Prime Minister about the preparation of a European plan to bring a just peace closer and invited him to take part in its development. During our talks, we focused particularly on defense needs, primarily the supply of artillery systems and ammunition, as well as investment in Ukraine’s domestic production of long-range drones and missiles. These systems have already proven their effectiveness on the front lines, and we must work together to strengthen this advantage. We also discussed Ukraine’s integration into the EU.

I am grateful to Belgium for its unwavering support for Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897632187698090452

During a meeting with European Commission President @vonderleyen and @eucopresident António Costa in Brussels, we discussed strengthening the defense capabilities of Ukraine and all of Europe.

Air defense, weapons and ammunition for Ukraine, timely deliveries, strengthening Ukraine’s defense industry, EU accession negotiations, the need to increase sanctions pressure on Russia, and countering sanctions circumvention – all of this was among the topics we addressed today.

I am grateful for the leadership in discussing the enhancement of Europe's defense capabilities and the strengthening of Ukraine, as well as for all the support on the path to a just and lasting peace. It is very important that Ukrainians are not alone – we feel it and know it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897658987430269127

 

[UK Girl]

‘Watershed moment’: EU leaders close to agreeing €800bn defence plan

Show of unity over Ukraine may be hampered by Hungary’s Viktor Orbán but consensus has built on need for spending

‘Watershed moment’: EU leaders agree plan for huge rise in defence spending

Leaders endorse Ursula von der Leyen proposal as French president calls Vladimir Putin ‘an imperialist who seeks to rewrite history’

www.theguardian.com

Orban should not be allowed to keep saying no all the time. IMO it should be a majority decision.

 

[UK Girl]

If China decides to attack the US, we will certainly engage. I don't think that's a fight they're willing to take to the battlefield.
The US stands ready and able to defend our country. We got weapons, lots of weapons. The US warehouse's as well as warehouses around the world full of weapons.

We are not afraid of China.
Moo

China also has lots of weapons.

 

[Simply Southern]

Unlike America Europe have never stopped ant support to the Ukraine war. Likewise...unlike what you may think Europe has sent plenty of weapons to help Ukraine and its people

Well they seem to be struggling now. Having emergency meeting, discussions with Parliament on how to fund additional support for their own defense, much less Ukraine. All reported in the media.

The US is no longer going to fund the Ukrainian war.

Has there been any media our government announcement from European countries that they are actively, today sending in military supplies? Have there been any announcements.... We just sent ... Such and such directly to Ukraine?

The that's publicly announced that we have Frozen military supplies going into Ukraine. I haven't heard anyone else and now that they have actually sent a shipment to Ukraine. I hear a lot of we support, we're with you, we're stepping up, but no Action.

Let's see what comes out of the conference today in Belgium. maybe some of those countries will write a check today. It does look doubtful though.

Moo

 

[UK Girl]

The U.S. is prepared for war. Our nation is quite adept at the art of war. I deal in reality, and find it highly unlikely a war with China is on the doorstep.

Is Europe prepared for war? Yes indeed. Is the U.S an ally? Yes indeed. Are not U.S nukes, armaments and troops stationed throughout Europe? Paid for by the U.S. taxpayer....like me, btw. The alternative argument, from my vantage point, isn't realistic.

Is America an ally? Right now no. As for the nukes being stationed around Europe..we have our own nukes that go in your machines. We are currently looking at changing that for Frances machinery. At this point we can not be beholden to America.

 

[JennieM]

Speculative.

Absolutely factual.

 

[UK Girl]

Well they seem to be struggling now. Having emergency meeting, discussions with Parliament on how to fund additional support for their own defense, much less Ukraine. All reported in the media.

The US is no longer going to fund the Ukrainian war.

Has there been any media our government announcement from European countries that they are actively, today sending in military supplies? Have there been any announcements.... We just sent ... Such and such directly to Ukraine?

The that's publicly announced that we have Frozen military supplies going into Ukraine. I haven't heard anyone else and now that they have actually sent a shipment to Ukraine. I hear a lot of we support, we're with you, we're stepping up, but no Action.

Let's see what comes out of the conference today in Belgium. maybe some of those countries will write a check today. It does look doubtful though.

Moo

<modsnip> From the beginning of the war we have sent whatever has been asked for. We have never ever said no. They do not need to make announcements. It has been an ongoing thing. <modsnip>

 

[Simply Southern]

A big thank you to New Zealand!!!

New Zealand fires UK envoy Phil Goff over Trump comments

Phil Goff asked if Trump "understands history" as he contrasted him with Sir Winston Churchill.

www.bbc.com

NZ fires envoy to UK who questioned Trump's grasp of history​

7 hours ago
New Zealand has fired its most senior envoy to the United Kingdom over remarks that questioned US President Donald Trump's grasp of history.

At an event in London on Tuesday, High Commissioner Phil Goff compared efforts to end the war between Russia and Ukraine to the 1938 Munich Agreement, which allowed Adolf Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia.

Mr Goff recalled how Sir Winston Churchill had criticised the agreement, then said of the US leader: "President Trump has restored the bust of Churchill to the Oval Office. But do you think he really understands history?"

His comments were "deeply disappointing" and made his position "untenable", New Zealand's Foreign Minister Winston Peters said.