Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Arkay]

On the contrary, the President is trying to end a war that has been going on for four years and he was elected by a mandate of the people to stop funding the war between Ukraine and Russia. He is also not "threatening" Canada, Mexico and China, he is imposing tariffs on these trade partners that will level the playing field and address their part in the influx of deadly drugs that are killing Americans at high numbers. The American people voted for a President and administration that would prevent WWIII and that's exactly what they are doing by trying to negotiate an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia. I don't think anyone here feels the need to defend him, he is merely carrying out the mandate he was given by the electorate. With regard to your accusations of corruption in the current administration, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only corruption I see is the past administration where Biden had to pardon his whole family pretty much for the corruption that has been going on for years going back to when he was a senator in the U.S. Congress.

My view is this:

Yes, Trump was elected by a mandate of Americans.

One promise he made was to end the Russia/Ukraine war in “a day.” That would seem fantastic and we all want this war to end.

HOWEVER, wish as he might, he couldn’t end the war in “a day,” but he wants to boast that he’s going to end the war (at some amorphous point). The only path he sees to doing that is to acquiesce to Putin, because Putin’s goal is to grab back all the territory that once belonged to the U.S.S.R.

The nation of Ukraine is much smaller and less powerful than Russia, so Trump picked the side with the power to end the war by giving his blessing to Putin, rather than Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine.

Putin’s mindset is still that of the KGB agent he once was in East Germany.

If Trump assuages Putin by enabling him to wipe out an independent Ukraine, Trump can put on his résumé “I ended the war in Ukraine.” That’s what matters to him—-not right or wrong, good or bad, democracy or dictatorship.

Incidentally, Trump also won on a mandate to reduce the cost of living in America, yet just the opposite is happening.

Sure, Trump and Musk can minimize this by saying it’ll be a little disturbance for awhile, because they are billionaires and the price of eggs is hardly a problem. The trickle down of tariffs on the prices we will pay in our everyday lives shows me that, as always, a candidate’s promise often twists into a shrug of nonchalance, once they are elected.

How have we ended up making an enemy out of good old Canada, eh? I’m not a fan of Trudeau, at all, but I am of the Canadian people.

The shoe’s on the wrong foot here. All the shoes.

JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I love the way countries in Europe and other countries are coming together for the greater good.

 

[LoveyG]

MSN

<3

Very interesting.

 

[Simply Southern]

BBM
The men discussed "many important topics", Trump wrote on his social media platform Truth Social, including fentanyl, illegal immigration, and trade.
Trudeau travelled to West Palm Beach as Canada seeks to head off the president-elect's threat to impose a 25% tariff on Canadian goods, a source has confirmed to the BBC.

Trump praises 'very productive' Mar-a-Lago meeting with Trudeau

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a surprise visit to Florida as Canada seeks to the avoid blanket tariffs threatened by the president-elect.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks I never heard the details why he came.

 

[Simply Southern]

My view is this:

Yes, Trump was elected by a mandate of Americans.

One promise he made was to end the Russia/Ukraine war in “a day.” That would seem fantastic and we all want this war to end.

HOWEVER, wish as he might, he couldn’t end the war in “a day,” but he wants to boast that he’s going to end the war (at some amorphous point). The only path he sees to doing that is to acquiesce to Putin, because Putin’s goal is to grab back all the territory that once belonged to the U.S.S.R.

The nation of Ukraine is much smaller and less powerful than Russia, so Trump picked the side with the power to end the war by giving his blessing to Putin, rather than Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine.

Putin’s mindset is still that of the KGB agent he once was in East Germany.

If Trump assuages Putin by enabling him to wipe out an independent Ukraine, Trump can put on his résumé “I ended the war in Ukraine.” That’s what matters to him—-not right or wrong, good or bad, democracy or dictatorship.

Incidentally, Trump also won on a mandate to reduce the cost of living in America, yet just the opposite is happening.

Sure, Trump and Musk can minimize this by saying it’ll be a little disturbance for awhile, because they are billionaires and the price of eggs is hardly a problem. The trickle down of tariffs on the prices we will pay in our everyday lives shows me that, as always, a candidate’s promise often twists into a shrug of nonchalance, once they are elected.

How have we ended up making an enemy out of good old Canada, eh? I’m not a fan of Trudeau, at all, but I am of the Canadian people.

The shoe’s on the wrong foot here. All the shoes.

JMO

Let's hope it ends quickly. Looks like we are getting ready to support Israel and may enter combat, if those hostages and the bodies are not returned quickly.
Israel's been the Hot topic in the news today. Trump was deeply affected after meeting and hearing the stories of the torture and abuse. Caroline Leavitt, appear to have tears in our eyes today when she spoke.

I worry about all the prisoners and hostages in Russia. I cannot imagine the abuse and torture that they suffer. I wish Zelensky cared about those souls. He may, I've just never heard him speak of them.

We got to stop The killing, I got to get hostages back from every country, we've got to get our prisoners of war back from every country. I can't imagine the torture they are going through.


Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I love the way countries in Europe and other countries are coming together for the greater good.

It will make European countries much stronger and help to make the world a safer place. We must invest in our own countries defense. Moo

 

[Vern]

Is America an ally? Right now no. As for the nukes being stationed around Europe..we have our own nukes that go in your machines. We are currently looking at changing that for Frances machinery. At this point we can not be beholden to America.

Indeed. And, France's nukes are 100% operational independant of the United States.

Smart move to pivot to France's nukes as well given that the nukes in Britain utilize US spare parts so you won't need to be buying those spares anymore either.

 

[Simply Southern]

Trump wants out of NATO then:

- then get OUT (ooops he needs a 2/3 majority vote to do that though);
- really save the American budget some money and physically get out too. No keeping his American boots on ground in Europe under the now-supposed-umbrella of it being "required" for NATO collective defense and aggression response which he is clearly stating he has no intention of actually doing so when it comes to Europe.

Trump and the US wouldn't want out of NATO, if everyone paid their 2%. Some feel like they don't need to. Why should we be asked to pay more, when some spend their taxpayer dollars in other way?
Some of our border countries heavily rely on the US for defense.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/08/nato-summit-canada-commitment-00166648

The Canadian case is particularly frustrating, the diplomats say, because of Ottawa’s seeming lack of urgency, despite significant problems with its aging military equipment and its strong economy. Its military is so underfunded that half of its equipment is considered “unavailable and unserviceable” according to a leaked internal report.


“The Canadian public doesn’t really see the need,” said Philippe Lagassé, Barton chair at Canada’s Carleton University. “If forced to choose between defense spending, social programs or reducing taxes, defense would always come last. So there’s no political gain to meeting the pledge.”

Canada’s stance prompted a bipartisan group of 23 U.S. senators to take the exceedingly rare step of sending a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in May saying they were “concerned and profoundly disappointed that Canada’s most recent projection indicated that it will not reach its 2 percent commitment this decade.”

 

[Vern]

A big thank you to New Zealand!!!

New Zealand fires UK envoy Phil Goff over Trump comments

Phil Goff asked if Trump "understands history" as he contrasted him with Sir Winston Churchill.

www.bbc.com

NZ fires envoy to UK who questioned Trump's grasp of history​

7 hours ago
New Zealand has fired its most senior envoy to the United Kingdom over remarks that questioned US President Donald Trump's grasp of history.

At an event in London on Tuesday, High Commissioner Phil Goff compared efforts to end the war between Russia and Ukraine to the 1938 Munich Agreement, which allowed Adolf Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia.

Mr Goff recalled how Sir Winston Churchill had criticised the agreement, then said of the US leader: "President Trump has restored the bust of Churchill to the Oval Office. But do you think he really understands history?"

His comments were "deeply disappointing" and made his position "untenable", New Zealand's Foreign Minister Winston Peters said.

Excellent. That's how diplomacy works.

Leaders fire underlings who undiplomaticly speak 'out of turn'.

If only others did the same. I guess it's contextual though if they are propagating the Leader's lies.

 

[statt#1]

Trump in the US wouldn't want out of NATO, if everyone paid their 2%. Some feel like they don't need to. Why should we be asked to pay more, when some spend their taxpayer dollars in other way?
Some of our border countries heavily rely on the US for defense.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/08/nato-summit-canada-commitment-00166648

The Canadian case is particularly frustrating, the diplomats say, because of Ottawa’s seeming lack of urgency, despite significant problems with its aging military equipment and its strong economy. Its military is so underfunded that half of its equipment is considered “unavailable and unserviceable” according to a leaked internal report.


“The Canadian public doesn’t really see the need,” said Philippe Lagassé, Barton chair at Canada’s Carleton University. “If forced to choose between defense spending, social programs or reducing taxes, defense would always come last. So there’s no political gain to meeting the pledge.”

Canada’s stance prompted a bipartisan group of 23 U.S. senators to take the exceedingly rare step of sending a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in May saying they were “concerned and profoundly disappointed that Canada’s most recent projection indicated that it will not reach its 2 percent commitment this decade.”

No surprise here, the Canadians and Europeans love the American taxpayer dollar. Trump's working on that

 

[Simply Southern]

Indeed. And, France's nukes are 100% operational independant of the United States.

Smart move to pivot to France's nukes as well given that the nukes in Britain utilize US spare parts so you won't need to be buying those spares anymore either.

I think this is a very, very wise decision. If France has enough that they can protect the European countries, it makes them much more secure. They are the closest neighbor. Their missiles,would get there quicker than the ones from the US.

I think countries have to prepare to rely on themselves. What would happen if the US was blown to pieces by nuclear weapons? The other countries would certainly need to be protecting themselves if we're blown off the face of the Earth.

If every country fully arms themselves and invest in a defense budget then the world is more secure. They would have stockpiles that could be shared, sold to other nations in the event of conflict. Right now the US has a huge stockpile, but we can't be a warehouse for other nations. What if our stockpile are destroyed? What are country's going to say well we were counting on the US.

In the event of a nuclear war. The US will be the very first Target. They will try to knock us out first, and they will hit every part of the country possible. They know if they destroyed the US, it destroys a large stockpile and weakens other nations ability to defend themselves.

I know that both of our bordering Nations, heavily depends on the United States. If they were attacked by a foreign entity, they would really be at an extreme disadvantage. I feel like, even though we have our differences with Mexico, if they were under direct attack the US with 100% be there.
I feel the same about Canada. I wished our bordering Nations would invest in defense, rather than relying on the US.

Moo

 

[statt#1]

We'll take a hard pass on that. Thanks but no thanks

I don't think that Canada could even begin to invade the US. I spend some little on defense and rely mainly on the US. They still can't meet their 2% with NATO.
Moo

The idea Canada could invade the U.S. is pure delusion...and truth be told, this American is vehemently opposed to the liberals up there becoming a 51st state

 

[Arkay]

Let's hope it ends quickly. Looks like we are getting ready to support Israel and may enter combat, if those hostages and the bodies are not returned quickly.
Israel's been the Hot topic in the news today. Trump was deeply affected after meeting and hearing the stories of the torture and abuse. Caroline Leavitt, appear to have tears in our eyes today when she spoke.

I worry about all the prisoners and hostages in Russia. I cannot imagine the abuse and torture that they suffer. I wish Zelensky cared about those souls. He may, I've just never heard him speak of them.

We got to stop The killing, I got to get hostages back from every country, we've got to get our prisoners of war back from every country. I can't imagine the torture they are going through.


Moo

In this matter we are in agreement.

After all, Israel too is a democratic ally, surrounded by terrorists and authoritarian regimes, and which was atrociously victimized by Hamas.

I cannot say that Zelenskyy doesn’t care about hostages. After all, he is Jewish, too, but his first priority right now has to be his country.

What has happened to the Ukrainian children who were snatched away from their families and brought across the border to be raised as Russians?

IMO we need to be allies to our allies.

IMO

 

[statt#1]

"a proxy war"

Technical Difficulties

 

[sunshineray]

Watching another press conference with Secretary of Defense Hegseth and the UK defense secretary. There's a lot of military people at this round table discussions. I'll try to find the link I can post. But I'll look for one.
It's happening inside the White House. UK defense secretary support a peace agreement. Appears to be six or more UK military official and six or more US military officials.
Moo

Everyone with a heart and pulse wants peace. That leaves out Putin and quite a few GOP senators who yesterday objected to resolutions stating the facts about Putin's Russia war crimes. Included were the abductions of over 20,000 Ukranian children, still being held in Russia. Now I ask you, how could any human being object to asking for those children to be returned?

 

[Simply Southern]

In this matter we are in agreement.

After all, Israel too is a democratic ally, surrounded by terrorists and authoritarian regimes, and which was atrociously victimized by Hamas.

I cannot say that Zelenskyy doesn’t care about hostages. After all, he is Jewish, too, but his first priority right now has to be his country.

What has happened to the Ukrainian children who were snatched away from their families and brought across the border to be raised as Russians?

IMO we need to be allies to our allies.

IMO

And that is why the European countries need to step up. Ukraine is their neighbor. They are a border state. They should look to their neighbor to help them out.

The US has made a choice to be one of Israel's allies. Israel heavily invest in defense. They even invented the best anti-missile system in the entire world. They spend heavily on defense.

When I've see countries that don't spend on defense and rely on the US. I am resentful. I am heavily taxed in the US. When other countries don't spend on defense, I have to ask myself, why are we spending the US taxpayer dollar on them. The countries that don't care enough to protect their own citizens, then it's really not our responsibility. It's different if we volunteered to to help. And it really makes giving easier when people are thankful and show appreciation, like Israel. But to try to force the US to provide military support and then get mad when we don't. I agree I think we should cut off everything. It doesn't make any difference, they still dislike us. When say bad things about the US to the media, when they insult and disrespect my president, oh heck no I don't want to give them anything.

I'm past caring what anybody thinks about the US. We are a great nation. We are a world power. We do have our allies throughout the world. If you don't want to be our friend that's okay, don't expect us to finance your war.

Moo...

 

[sunshineray]

On the contrary, the President is trying to end a war that has been going on for four years and he was elected by a mandate of the people to stop funding the war between Ukraine and Russia. He is also not "threatening" Canada, Mexico and China, he is imposing tariffs on these trade partners that will level the playing field and address their part in the influx of deadly drugs that are killing Americans at high numbers. The American people voted for a President and administration that would prevent WWIII and that's exactly what they are doing by trying to negotiate an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia. I don't think anyone here feels the need to defend him, he is merely carrying out the mandate he was given by the electorate. With regard to your accusations of corruption in the current administration, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only corruption I see is the past administration where Biden had to pardon his whole family pretty much for the corruption that has been going on for years going back to when he was a senator in the U.S. Congress.

And Trump is a convicted felon...many, many, many times over. His mandate was not to dictate. His mandate was not to be king. His mandate was not to destroy the VA, Medicare and send his unqualified minions into governmental databases with a free hand to do anything they want. He's after revenge and retribution, plan and simple. His mandate was not to lie to Americans with almost every breath. Look at his polls. Look at the bipartisan town halls. The people are not supporting this administration as much as some would think. But for 4 senators things would be shaking out a lot differently right about now. Time will tell the tale correctly and Trump will have a legacy of infamy that he so deserves.
AJMO

 

[UK Girl]

No surprise here, the Canadians and Europeans love the American taxpayer dollar. Trump's working on that

Really? I think we prefer dependable allies tbh

 

[Simply Southern]

Everyone with a heart and pulse wants peace. That leaves out Putin and quite a few GOP senators who yesterday objected to resolutions stating the facts about Putin's Russia war crimes. Included were the abductions of over 20,000 Ukranian children, still being held in Russia. Now I ask you, how could any human being object to asking for those children to be returned?

Zelensky made the decision to continue the war. The US did not, he was informed he would lose full support if he did not seek a peace agreement. Zelensky does not appear to be concerned about ending the war and bringing the prisoners and the children home. He's running around Europe trying to raise money for weapons about to continue the war. He should be sitting down at a negotiation table trying to get his children and prisoner's back.

No leader in the world has tried to negotiate a peace agreement, until Trump took office. Now the US is the bad guy, because we are trying to force a peace agreement. I know many people just like Trump, I see and read the pure hate in black and white. But I am 100% convinced, there will be a peace deal in Ukraine. Everyone will not be happy, everyone will not get what they want, but the war will end. And many will continue to hate Trump.
I'm sure he would gladly relinquish peace negotiations, if someone will step up to the plate and accept the challenge.

Yes. I want every one of those little children back. I want every prisoner that's being held and tortured by Russia back. But we have to be cordial to Russia to get them to the table to at least talk about an agreement. This is the first effort made by anybody. And the world wants to throw shade at the US. I'm past caring what people think of the United States. All I care about is ending the war, saving souls, trying to get hostages, children and prisoners returned.

A resolution is only worth the paper is written on. It has no legal authority. The UN is notorious for issuing resolutions. The UN has no authority, no international police force, to take any action on any resolution they're right. It's worthless paper. Do you think Russia cares what a bunch of US senators right on a piece of paper? NO
Trump's trying to keep a bridge open, to negotiate. It's a shame some Senators don't have a understanding, skill set or conception about how negotiations work. So many of our elected Congressional Representatives have never worked in the business world. They have no concept how quickly decisions are made, negotiation strategies and techniques, or how to bring a problem to resolution. They do know how to say what the people want to hear to be elected.

MO

 

[Sundog]

Zelensky made the decision to continue the war. The US did not, he was informed he would lose full support if he did not seek a peace agreement. Zelensky does not appear to be concerned about ending the war and bringing the prisoners and the children home. He's running around Europe trying to raise money for weapons about to continue the war. He should be sitting down at a negotiation table trying to get his children and prisoner's back.

No leader in the world has tried to negotiate a peace agreement, until Trump took office. Now the US is the bad guy, because we are trying to force a peace agreement. I know many people just like Trump, I see and read the pure hate in black and white. But I am 100% convinced, there will be a peace deal in Ukraine. Everyone will not be happy, everyone will not get what they want, but the war will end. And many will continue to hate Trump.
I'm sure he would gladly relinquish peace negotiations, if someone will step up to the plate and accept the challenge.

Yes. I want every one of those little children back. I want every prisoner that's being held and tortured by Russia back. But we have to be cordial to Russia to get them to the table to at least talk about an agreement. This is the first effort made by anybody. And the world wants to throw shade at the US. I'm past caring what people think of the United States. All I care about is ending the war, saving souls, trying to get hostages, children and prisoners returned.

A resolution is only worth the paper is written on. It has no legal authority. The UN is notorious for issuing resolutions. The UN has no authority, no international police force, to take any action on any resolution they're right. It's worthless paper. Do you think Russia cares what a bunch of US senators right on a piece of paper? NO
Trump's trying to keep a bridge open, to negotiate. It's a shame some Senators don't have a understanding, skill set or conception about how negotiations work. So many of our elected Congressional Representatives have never worked in the business world. They have no concept how quickly decisions are made, negotiation strategies and techniques, or how to bring a problem to resolution. They do know how to say what the people want to hear to be elected.

MO

Well said.