Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[UK Girl]

I thought they wanted peace though?

MSN

 

[UK Girl]

26m ago12.08 GMT

Ukrainian opposition leaders reject US suggestions of wartime election​

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

Petro Poroshenko, who served as the fifth president of Ukraine from 2014 to 2019, speaks during an interview in Kyiv in 2022. Photograph: Miguel A Lopes/EPA

Zelenskyy joins EU leaders at defence summit as Russia accuses France of wanting Ukraine war to continue – Europe live

Leaders gather to discuss €800bn plan to boost military capacity as Kremlin says Macron’s comments were ‘extremely confrontational’

www.theguardian.com

Just wrong IMO MSN

 

[Simply Southern]

Hmmmm, and here I thought people wanted the war to end.

Apparently Ukraine, who is the victim and who has been attacked, needs to 'negotiate' away bits of their sovereign nation. Russia? Nyet. Nothing required from them - not even a "bring those Ukrainian kids home now".

IMO.

The US does want the war to end. Resolution do not have a direct impact. We've seen many resolutions from the UN. They are merely statements condemning or promoting a particular viewpoint. They do not have the power nor the authority to take action.
Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

Good article on he Dec reconciliation bill past December 2024 funding through March 14th 2025. The most recent Dec bill only provides funding for the government to operate for 3 months. After 3 months a new bill will need to be introduced or the government will go into "shut down". Government shutdown will provide only essential services and essential employees will work. All other employees will be furloughed home.

Reconciliation bills are used when both parties cannot agree on a yearly budget. The United States has not funded a full 12 month budget since the Obama administration.
Moo

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/12/20/congress/house-passes-funding-package-government-shutdown-00195737

How do you think this will affect the war on Ukraine? No effect? Some effect?

 

[sds71]

Russia “categorically” opposes any deal that allows European troops to act as peacekeepers in Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

“We see no room for compromise,” Lavrov told reporters Thursday at a news conference in Moscow. The presence of European forces in Ukraine would mean the “undisguised involvement of NATO countries in a war against the Russian Federation. It’s impossible to allow this,” he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-06/russia-s-lavrov-rejects-compromise-on-european-troops-in-ukraine?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social

 

[SouthAussie]

Russia “categorically” opposes any deal that allows European troops to act as peacekeepers in Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

“We see no room for compromise,” Lavrov told reporters Thursday at a news conference in Moscow. The presence of European forces in Ukraine would mean the “undisguised involvement of NATO countries in a war against the Russian Federation. It’s impossible to allow this,” he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-06/russia-s-lavrov-rejects-compromise-on-european-troops-in-ukraine?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social

It is pretty much the only thing Russia has said about "peace". No peacekeepers in Ukraine.

imo

 

[JennieM]

17m ago12.40 GMT

Ukrainian protest at US Embassy in Kyiv - in pictures​

Protesters rallied outside the US embassy in Kyiv on Thursday to bring attention to the fate of Ukrainian prisoners of war and ensure their inclusion in any deal to stop the conflict with Russia.

The US had been Ukraine’s biggest backer until president Donald Trump initiated a complete shift in his country’s foreign policy and halted US support to Ukraine, Reuters noted.

Relatives of Ukrainian prisoners of war attend a rally demanding the release of all POWs before any peace talks or deal with Russia, amid ongoing Russian attack on Ukraine, in front of the United States embassy in Kyiv. Photograph: Valentyn Ogirenko/Reuters

People attend a rally addressed to the US government, asking for help in freeing Ukrainian prisoners of war held captive in Russia, in front of the US embassy in Kyiv. Photograph: Efrem Lukatsky/AP

People attend a rally addressed to the US government, asking for help in freeing Ukrainian prisoners of war held captive in Russia, in front of the US embassy in Kyiv. Photograph: Efrem Lukatsky/AP

Zelenskyy joins EU leaders at defence summit as Russia accuses France of wanting Ukraine war to continue – Europe live

Leaders gather to discuss €800bn plan to boost military capacity as Kremlin says Macron’s comments were ‘extremely confrontational’

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

20 countries 'interested' in Starmer's 'coalition of the willing'​

Helen Catt
Political correspondent

Around 20 countries are reportedly interested in becoming part of the "coalition of the willing" to help Ukraine.

British officials said a meeting of officials was convened yesterday to discuss providing security guarantees following any peace deal.

It's not thought every one of the countries, which are largely from Europe and the Commonwealth, would necessarily send troops but some could provide other support.

The officials said it was "early days" but welcomed what they described as a "highly positive step".

The prime minister's deputy official spokesman said the government had been "very clear that it is for Europe and for the UK to step up and I think you are seeing evidence of that consistently".

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Simply Southern]

Whatever it was, the same method was not used to figure out the European contribution (by Trump).

He somehow made $174bn into $350bn from the US.
And $259bn into $100bn from Europe.

And he forgot to deduct from the US figure the ROI (return on investment) that the US received in jobs creation and resulting taxes on wages, and economic improvement, due to the growth in the US munitions industry.

imo

I don't think the 174 billion includes humanitarian and other aid non-military. It's pretty easy to see the US military funding. In order to look at humanitarian and non-military funding, a person would need to go through USAID to look at Grant's awarded directly to Ukraine and to non-profit agencies that provide service and supplies to Ukraine. It would take a lot of due diligence, look up each award to the private not for profits.

I think the same would apply to Europe. Europe has not only funded military spending but humanitarian aid as well.
Moo

 

[statt#1]

Putin has been fighting a limited engagement. One might ask...why is that? If so inclined, Russia has the means to make this war a completely different challenge. My opinion, it is of benefit for Ukraine to come to the table.

The comparisons here aren't even close.

Comparison of Ukraine and Russia Military Strengths (2025)

Comparison of two world military powers in side-by-side format.

www.globalfirepower.com

 

[JennieM]

US 'destroying' world order, Ukraine's ambassador to UK says​

“We see that it is not just the axis of evil and Russia trying to revise the world order, but the US is finally destroying this order.”

US 'destroying' world order, Ukraine's ambassador to the UK says

Valerii Zaluzhnyi's comments come amid an apparent cooling of tensions between Kyiv and Washington.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Majority of western Europeans think Trump is threat to peace, survey finds​

Most respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and UK also say Ukraine’s exclusion from peace talks is unacceptable

Majority of western Europeans think Trump is threat to peace, survey finds

Most respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and UK also say Kyiv’s exclusion from peace talks is unacceptable

www.theguardian.com

 

[Simply Southern]

20 countries 'interested' in Starmer's 'coalition of the willing'​

Helen Catt
Political correspondent

Around 20 countries are reportedly interested in becoming part of the "coalition of the willing" to help Ukraine.

British officials said a meeting of officials was convened yesterday to discuss providing security guarantees following any peace deal.

It's not thought every one of the countries, which are largely from Europe and the Commonwealth, would necessarily send troops but some could provide other support.

The officials said it was "early days" but welcomed what they described as a "highly positive step".

The prime minister's deputy official spokesman said the government had been "very clear that it is for Europe and for the UK to step up and I think you are seeing evidence of that consistently".

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

The war is going into year 4. The European countries have been aware of the war for the past 4 years.

Showing interest and stepping up do not seem be producing cash commitments or troops to support a peacekeeping effort. Much of the support promised is in humanitarian and reconstruction. The UK has stepped up with a 2 billion dollar award to purchase missiles for Ukraine. The UK has firmly committed 20,000 troops to act as peacekeepers.

For some reason, Ukraine rejects the use of UN peacekeepers, Russia is rejecting European peacekeepers.
Moo

 

[UK Girl]

Russia “categorically” opposes any deal that allows European troops to act as peacekeepers in Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

“We see no room for compromise,” Lavrov told reporters Thursday at a news conference in Moscow. The presence of European forces in Ukraine would mean the “undisguised involvement of NATO countries in a war against the Russian Federation. It’s impossible to allow this,” he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-06/russia-s-lavrov-rejects-compromise-on-european-troops-in-ukraine?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social

The thing is that was Trumps idea. Not ours. So basically the ones that Trump are protecting are going against what he himself has said would happen and yet we should trust them?

 

[UK Girl]

Putin has been fighting a limited engagement. One might ask...why is that? If so inclined, Russia has the means to make this war a completely different challenge. My opinion, it is of benefit for Ukraine to come to the table.

The comparisons here aren't even close.

Comparison of Ukraine and Russia Military Strengths (2025)

Comparison of two world military powers in side-by-side format.

www.globalfirepower.com

Lol it is obvious that Ukraine has kept them back. It is obvious that Russia isnt as good as they thought they were...and that Ukraine was a lot stronger than people believed.

 

[UK Girl]

I don't think the 174 billion includes humanitarian and other aid non-military. It's pretty easy to see the US military funding. In order to look at humanitarian and non-military funding, a person would need to go through USAID to look at Grant's awarded directly to Ukraine and to non-profit agencies that provide service and supplies to Ukraine. It would take a lot of due diligence, look up each award to the private not for profits.

I think the same would apply to Europe. Europe has not only funded military spending but humanitarian aid as well.
Moo

It has been made clear by many that America has not paid anything like the sums that Trump has claimed .

 

[Simply Southern]

US 'destroying' world order, Ukraine's ambassador to UK says​

“We see that it is not just the axis of evil and Russia trying to revise the world order, but the US is finally destroying this order.”

US 'destroying' world order, Ukraine's ambassador to the UK says

Valerii Zaluzhnyi's comments come amid an apparent cooling of tensions between Kyiv and Washington.

www.bbc.co.uk

So the US is destroying world order because we fully fund our defense, fund NATO above the required 2% contribution.

If the European countries were fully funding their own defense, as the United States does and other countries... Israel and Middle Eastern as couple of examples we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[UK Girl]

The war is going into year 4. The European countries have been aware of the war for the past 4 years.

Showing interest and stepping up do not seem be producing cash commitments or troops to support a peacekeeping effort. Much of the support promised is in humanitarian and reconstruction. The UK has stepped up with a 2 billion dollar award to purchase missiles for Ukraine. The UK has firmly committed 20,000 troops to act as peacekeepers.

For some reason, Ukraine rejects the use of UN peacekeepers, Russia is rejecting European peacekeepers.
Moo

What?? I am not sure where you get a lot of stuff from tbh. You keep saying about the 2 billion award...well it was 2 million the other day. We have paid more than that and Europe has paid MORE than America has towards the war. Ukraine is not rejecting the peacekeepers...Russia is. The Uk has not said for sure yet how many peacekeepers we will send...and much of Europe HAS provided cash commitments to this war. As I said collectively we have paid as much as America if not more and going forward , although Trump literally ordered us to act as peacekeepers it will be Europe paying for this for decades to come. Not anyone else.

 

[UK Girl]

So the US is destroying world order because we fully fund our defense, fund NATO above the required 2% contribution.

If the European countries were fully funding their own defense, as the United States does and other countries... Israel and Middle Eastern as couple of examples we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yes we would tbh.

 

[SouthAussie]

So the US is destroying world order because we fully fund our defense, fund NATO above the required 2% contribution.

If the European countries were fully funding their own defense, as the United States does and other countries... Israel and Middle Eastern as couple of examples we wouldn't be having this conversation.

No, it is destroying world order
By siding with Russia against the Ukraine
By making insinuations and moves to take Greenland
By making insinuations and moves to take Panama
By making its allies angry due to breaking free trade agreements, and wanting us all to withhold intelligence from Ukraine (fat chance)

I am sure there are also other reasons, but these are the first ones that jump to mind.

imo