Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[RichardKimble]

I keep reading Trump this and Trump that. Trump didn't bring this mess to where it is. Western expansion, in particular, NATO expansion, eastward toward Russia, then Ukraine and the antics of the warhawks there, and Putin said enough is enough. Once again, to totally ignore Russia's interests in this mess is illogical, naive, and dangerous.

Trump wants to bring Putin to the table, and Zelensky. The warhawks want war. If a deal doesn't come to pass now, then more death and destruction is on the horizon...possibly after another year or two, the desire to seek peace will strengthen.

Indeed, Zelensky wants to drive Russian back to pre 22 border levels, how is this to be achieved without a massive war effort ? The Ukraine cannot achieve it on their own at some stage a mobilisation of allies would have to take place, effectively declaring ww111, it's not gonna happen, it's time to jaw jaw.

 

[UK Girl]

Where was this coalition of the willing three-plus years ago (actually, ten)? Three years have gone by during which the UK, France, and the EU nations could have built up significant military force to at-minimum, deter further Russian aggression. You can’t get a bigger wake up call than the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Russia is a great evil. Putin is Moriarty.

Yet, for the most part, nothing has been done. Nothing has changed. Any coalition of the willing today will now have to start from scratch and come up with 100-150 billion a year to arm the UK, France, and EU. I’m guessing it will take three plus years minimum. And that’s only if they actually do something this time (vs 2022).

It’s amazing that since 2022 the UK and France and other EU nations sat by and watched Ukraine get mauled while doing little but condemning Russia and sending Ukraine a few billion. As long as it wasn’t their country.. as long as the US was providing intelligence, funding it, and sending billions in military equipment and weapons, no worries.

I encourage readers to go back to the first thread and read the first 10 pages again to see the comments made by Stoltenberg, Macron, Boris Johnson / Sunak, Merkel/Sholtz, Erdogan, Trudeau and yes, Joe Biden.

-Stoltenberg: “a brutal act of war”
-Trudeau “to meet with G7”
-EU Foreign Affairs: “darkest hours of -Europe since Second World War”
-Macron: “France and its allies did everything to try to head off the attack on Ukraine”
-Macron: “We will show no weakness in our response”
-Boris: “our worst fears have come true”
-Erdogan “rejects Russian’s unacceptable military action in Ukraine”
-NATO to deploy more land and air forces
- West condemns
-UK summons ambassador
-Germany “promises to help with refugees”
-Biden: “Russian government will be held accountable for catastrophic loss of life and human suffering”
-Biden: “announces new sanctions..(but reiterated US won’t put troops on the ground)”

Imo Russia should have been blasted back out of Ukraine by the US, the UK, France, Germany, and the EU back in 2022. Instead, leaders (including Biden and US) virtue signaled to the left wing press and / or did nothing. For the most part, EU defense spending remained below 2 percent. All talk

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/14636.jpeg

The UK and especially the EU nations have simply refused to spend money for their own defense. Imo the EU is an economic union with a globalist socialist agenda, whose priorities place defense spending last. Dead last.

The US has by far been the biggest financial and military backer of Ukraine. The US has by far been the biggest financial backer of NATO. Yet the entire world (led by EU talking heads supported by left wing media) is vilifying the US after Zelensky refused to sign a minerals deal that would’ve provided at least some level of security for his country (more than what the EU has done in the past and is willing to do in future) going forward. That was the best he was going to get.

Ukraine is in Europe. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. What is wrong with this picture? Where have the UK, France, Germany, and the EU been? Where are they today? Pearl clutching and raging about a supposed new world order being created by the great satan US. Bull. There is no new world order. The UK, France, Germany and EU nations have simply been sleeping: shirking their responsibilities while playing in their globalist sand box for years. Wake up.

After the Biden administration added nearly 9 trillion (with a t) dollars to the US national debt, the US simply said: “We cannot continue to fund a forever war in Ukraine for 100 billion a year for a country that is not in NATO: the war needs to end; take steps to end it.” For everything we have given (and for what we were about to give) we were then disrespected on the world stage. The screeching by leftists who always think they are owed something continues.

Imo the US is the only nation who has tried to maintain world order. The US is the only nation who has provided sacrificial financial support to help Ukraine. Ukraine is in Europe. Ukraine is not part of NATO. The US said in 2022 they would not put boots on the ground. What has changed since then?

Where is/are UK, France, Germany, and EU nations - the socialist globalist central planners of EU? Imo some of their remarks sound remarkably similar to those they made back in 2014 and 2022. Imo UK, France, and EU needs to wake up, do what they can to support Ukraine (while US does the same), work to end the war, and stop bashing their greatest and strongest ally.

Jmo

Europe has sent a few billion? We have sent as much as America has. It has been proven multiple times that America has not sent as much as Trump has claimed.

Why would we have gone in there years ago? We are going in as peace keepers not to fight. As for why we did not go in? Russia made it plain had we gone in it would be classed as WW3!

As for Ukraine not being in Nato - correct. However as we have said multiple times now they were promised if they gave weapons up that US UK etc would protect them if invaded again. All this is common knowledge tbh

 

[Stella123]

Well they seem to be struggling now. Having emergency meeting, discussions with Parliament on how to fund additional support for their own defense, much less Ukraine. All reported in the media.

The US is no longer going to fund the Ukrainian war.

Has there been any media our government announcement from European countries that they are actively, today sending in military supplies? Have there been any announcements.... We just sent ... Such and such directly to Ukraine?

The that's publicly announced that we have Frozen military supplies going into Ukraine. I haven't heard anyone else and now that they have actually sent a shipment to Ukraine. I hear a lot of we support, we're with you, we're stepping up, but no Action.

Let's see what comes out of the conference today in Belgium. maybe some of those countries will write a check today. It does look doubtful though.

Moo

Well if the US is no longer going to fund it, Trump needs to step up the peace deal instead of allowing Putin to try and wipe Ukraine out. He is not acting in a peaceful manner IMO. JMO

 

[RichardKimble]

Bedrock of western society ,read European.

The two months since Trump took office have seen the cornerstones of cooperation between the US and Europe completely upended - an alliance that had been the bedrock of Western security since World War II.

Europe can defeat Russia in any conflict, EU leaders tell Zelensky

The Polish Prime Minister warned that Vladimir Putin had started 'a new arms race' that has left Europe with no choice but to prepare itself.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

Well if the US is no longer going to fund it, Trump needs to step up the peace deal instead of allowing Putin to try and wipe Ukraine out. He is not acting in a peaceful manner IMO. JMO

Take Trump and the US out, who else is stepping up for a peace deal, European leaders seem to want war.

 

[Simply Southern]

Well if the US is no longer going to fund it, Trump needs to step up the peace deal instead of allowing Putin to try and wipe Ukraine out. He is not acting in a peaceful manner IMO. JMO

Zelensky it's not interested in a peace deal. He's been lobbying the last two weeks with European countries for support to continue the war. He's in Belgium today at a conference, begging for commitments for weapons and financial support.

Russia has are interested in a potential peace agreement, unfortunately Zelensky if not. More souls more loss last night on both sides.

Zelensky is now responsible for any loss territory and all lost souls. He chooses to continue the war and refuse to even go to the negotiation table to see what might be offered. Unless you're starting negotiation you don't know what you're going to get and what you might have to give up. He won't try.
Moo

 

[Stella123]

I keep reading Trump this and Trump that. Trump didn't bring this mess to where it is. Western expansion, in particular, NATO expansion, eastward toward Russia, then Ukraine and the antics of the warhawks there, and Putin said enough is enough. Once again, to totally ignore Russia's interests in this mess is illogical, naive, and dangerous.

Trump wants to bring Putin to the table, and Zelensky. The warhawks want war. If a deal doesn't come to pass now, then more death and destruction is on the horizon...possibly after another year or two, the desire to seek peace will strengthen.

Well he said he wanted to but since Zelensky has offered to come to the table Trump has
1) Witheld aid
2) Witheld intelligence
3) Currently deporting Ukrainian refugees (apparently)
4) Held off on this minerals deal - no more talk about it
5) Appointing a Russian ambassador in the US

That is hardly the way to do peace talks. JMO MOO

 

[Stella123]

Zelensky it's not interested in a peace deal. He's been lobbying the last two weeks with European countries for support to continue the war. He's in Belgium today at a conference, thinking commitments for weapons and financial support.

Russia has are interested in a potential peace agreement, unfortunately Zelensky if not. More souls more loss last night on both sides.
Moo

This is untrue - for days Zelensky has been willing to talk about a "lasting peace". But meanwhile civilians are being killed because the US has witheld support and intelligence and banned the Uk from sharing intelligence. What more can Zelensky do? JMO MOO

 

[Stella123]

I am just catching up on today's posts and feel so sad at what is happening to Ukraine and how Russia has managed to divide the western world. The US deporting Ukrainian refugees - that is a very clear sign of throwing them on the rubbish heap. Presumably he wants Europe to take them (and they will).

A civilian hotel bombed the night Ukraine didn't have any intelligence support.
JMO MOO.

 

[Stella123]

Also, Trump's wife is from Europe. I hope she divorces him. JMO MOO

 

[Stella123]

"The United States is "finally destroying" the international rules-based order by trying to meet Russia "halfway", Ukraine's ambassador to the UK has warned."

"Valerii Zaluzhnyi said Washington's recent actions in relation to Moscow could lead to the collapse of NATO - with Europe becoming Russian President Vladimir Putin's next target."

And that is the nub of it. And presumably the plan? Between Trump and Putin? Collapse Nato, disempower Europe and take over other countries. It's psychological warfare.

This coulds be us next. Britain, France, Germany. Can you imagine living in a Russian regime? Can Greenland and Canada imagine living under a Trump-led Russian influenced regime? I'm with the French Senator yesterday, who called Trump a traitor. JMO MOO.

US 'destroying' international rules-based order by trying to meet Russia 'halfway', Ukraine's UK ambassador warns

Valerii Zaluzhnyi says Washington's recent actions in relation to Moscow could lead to the collapse of NATO and that Europe could become Vladimir Putin's next target.

news.sky.com

 

[Rush4087]

This is pure speculation on my part, but my guess is that the “minerals deal” was perhaps more than a “minerals deal”.

I think it might have been a carefully crafted, carefully worded agreement intended to enable the US to put “boots in the ground” in Ukraine (even if it would be only be a mix of corporate/partnership, scientific, advisor, worker, and a few military “boots”.

Any attack by Russia or separatist forces on US personnel (of whatever kind) would be justification for a US military response. I’m guessing that it was intended that many of the initial “mineral extraction” operations would have been located in the eastern part of Ukraine.

Again, I have no knowledge that this is what the minerals deal was all about. It’s pure speculation.

But for those who automatically assume that the evil US was trying to extort or exploit Ukraine, Ukraine’s minerals are not just sitting there. Look it up. Only a small percentage of Ukraine’s mineral resources are being mined. It is an untapped resource that Ukraine would eventually like to use to finance their country. It is apparently an extremely difficult and extremely expensive undertaking to try to extract these minerals.

From what I have read, there currently is ZERO rare earth metals mining occurring in Ukraine. This was not some deal to allow to the US to pay pennies on the dollar to rip off Ukraine. I think it may have been an effort to provide security for Ukraine without starting WW III - and a means of investing billions into Ukraine’s economy to help them rebuild. It was a partnership. If I’m right about an ulterior motive existing for the agreement, it may no longer be a realistic approach, as everybody now know its purpose

I think the minerals agreement might have been the only ways Zelensky was ever going to be able to get US “boots on the ground”, - and the only way the US could legitimately provide any border area security without starting a direct US (and therefore EU) war with Russia. It appears that It wasn’t enough for Zelensky. Just a possibility

Pure speculation, all jmo

 

[Stella123]

It is possible, but why won't the US go ahead with it now Zelensky has said he is willing?

 

[UK Girl]

This is good news. Ukraine is getting continued military grade weapons and will be able to continue the war without US support.

The King, is a very kind, compassionate and highly intelligent person. I have complete confidence he will make the best decision for all. He is highly respected in the United States, and many of us love and respect the Royal family.
Moo

The King is VERY Pro Ukraine and President Zelensky <3

 

[Deleted member 235284]

Zelensky it's not interested in a peace deal. He's been lobbying the last two weeks with European countries for support to continue the war. He's in Belgium today at a conference, thinking commitments for weapons and financial support.

Russia has are interested in a potential peace agreement, unfortunately Zelensky if not. More souls more loss last night on both sides.

Zelensky is now responsible for any loss territory and all lost souls. He chooses to continue the war and refuse to even go to the negotiation table to see what might be offered. Unless you're starting negotiation you don't know what you're going to get and what you might have to give up. He won't try.
Moo

Zelensky wants peace he just wants a peace that will last though.

Its hard when Putin is on the other side who has a long history of breaking truces.

Thats the biggest danger from the Ukrainian side of any such peace deal that its terms are weak and just allows another war to break out.

So its clearly better for Ukraine to try and hold out for the best possible peace deal it can get which has a good chance of being able to stop any future war.

 

[UK Girl]

Well they seem to be struggling now. Having emergency meeting, discussions with Parliament on how to fund additional support for their own defense, much less Ukraine. All reported in the media.

The US is no longer going to fund the Ukrainian war.

Has there been any media our government announcement from European countries that they are actively, today sending in military supplies? Have there been any announcements.... We just sent ... Such and such directly to Ukraine?

The that's publicly announced that we have Frozen military supplies going into Ukraine. I haven't heard anyone else and now that they have actually sent a shipment to Ukraine. I hear a lot of we support, we're with you, we're stepping up, but no Action.

Let's see what comes out of the conference today in Belgium. maybe some of those countries will write a check today. It does look doubtful though.

Moo

Tbh a lot of this confuses me. I get the impression that some are hoping this coallition will not work.

America was NOT funding it. Along with other countries they HELPED to fund it.

I am confused if some even know what the meetings are about in Europe at the moment. It certainly is not about starting to send things to Ukraine.

 

[Stella123]

And this little snippet, also mentioned earlier in this thread

"Russia, meanwhile, said it would not accept any European peacekeepers in Ukraine, claiming it would mean direct Nato involvement in the war."

Putin said that right from the start - if any other country set foot in Ukraine military wise, he would see that as them being at war with Russia. Which is why other countries could only provide missiles and aid from afar, to avoid WW3. A peacekeeping force is the not the same as other countries assisting in military action in Ukraine (ie european soldiers fighting in Ukraine). But it seems Putin doesn't accept peacekeeping forces and sees them as "military involvement".

Access Restricted

 

[Rush4087]

It is possible, but why won't the US go ahead with it now Zelensky has said he is willing?

I think they will, but jmo

 

[Stella123]

Also, for all Starmer is trying to keep good relations with the US, I don't think Trump wants them. Even before the US election, Musk has been posting anti Uk stuff on X for months. And was even reprimanded, at one point, by the Uk of inciting riots in the Uk.

I think what we are now seeing is a planned and concerted effort to completely undermine Europe in favour of two big superpowers working hand in hand. Russia and the US.

JMO MOO

 

[Stella123]

I think they will, but jmo

I think deporting Ukrainian refugees is making that look unlikely now JMO I think there is a lot of hate. Hate for Zelensky, hate for the Uk, hate for Europe. Narcissists hate being criticized. JMO MOO