Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #2

[Bit of hope]

If this is going to work...the article is now translated in English. Let me know.
Russlands Krieg: Warum Putins Plan bislang nicht aufgeht

No it's not working....pieces of it @Angleterre

Why Putin's plan hasn't worked so far
Status: 02/27/2022 00:41 a.m
Russia is advancing in Ukraine but is encountering significant resistance. The losses seem relatively high, and people in Russia know little about them - yet.

By Patrick Gensing, tagesschau.de

It has been almost a week since Russian President Vladimir Putin gave the order to invade Ukraine. Since then, his troops have been able to advance far into the neighboring country, but various analysts believe that Russia is making much slower progress than the Kremlin expected and planned.

This is indicated, among other things, by fighting around an airport near Kiev, where the attackers wanted to build a bridgehead for troop transport, but initially did not succeed.

Ukraine's anti-aircraft defense has so far not been able to completely eliminate Russia - with fatal consequences: Ukraine claims to have shot down two Russian transport planes in the night from Friday to Saturday alone, in which special forces were allegedly brought inland. According to the AP news agency, US sources confirmed this information, but so far there are no pictures or videos as evidence.

There also seemed to be problems in supplying the advancing troops. Videos show burnt-out Russian military transports that were supposed to deliver supplies. There are also increasing reports of Russian tanks stranded without fuel.

<snipped>

Reality check propaganda
But there is growing evidence that the defenders' morale is significantly higher than that of the attackers. As Ukraine fights as David against Goliath Russia and the population pulls together, the Russian attackers are confronted with a reality that doesn't fit with the Kremlin's propaganda.

Instead of being greeted by a jubilant populace eager to be liberated from a supposed "Nazi regime," the invaders find a well-prepared army and a populace willing to fight. Even without weapons, Ukrainians confront Russian tanks.

<snipped>

Parallel world in Russian state media
The Russian state media paints a completely distorted picture of the events that has less and less in common with reality: there is no mention of the war, there are no reports of Russian casualties, and allegedly there is no fighting in Kiev at all, only in the Donbass.

Many Russians are still convinced that no Russians were killed. A ticking time bomb until the edifice of lies of the government and the state media collapses. Although Putin controls his propaganda stations as weapons in the information war , total control of information is hardly possible in the age of social media.

So it's only a matter of time before videos of dead Russian soldiers, destroyed military columns and prisoners being paraded reach more people in Russia. Then the mood could quickly turn against the war.

etc.

 

[sunshineray]

So I have a question. In numbers, how many Russians are in power who actually control the firing of their nukes? If Putin said "fire a nuke at...", in what way would it trickle down to the actual launch?

There must be a security in place against say a rouge general of pushing the button on his own. Would that not also be the case for security against a rouge President?

I've just got to believe that cooler heads would prevail. How anyone [Russians], who have lived through the Chernobyl disaster happening so near and the ongoing consquences of that many years later, ever consider a nuclear missile attack as an answer to anything? Nuclear poison being released, especially in Europe, will just make those areas unlivable for all, even the invaders who want it so much.

I can't think the Russians, besides the insane ones, would let that happen. Am I being too hopeful?

 

[Fika]

“Ukrainian troops are in control of Kharkiv, governor says, after Russian attack”

Ukraine live updates: Ukraine claims control of Kharkiv after Russian attack - BBC News

 

[GRT]

Former Democratic presidential contender, veteran, and current legislator--Tulsi Gabbard--offers a different view of the Ukraine/Russia situation.

It's worth a listen.

 

[Fika]

“

Liz Truss has said she would support Britons wanting to go to Ukraine to help it fight the Russian invasion.

In an interview on the BBC One’s Sunday Morning programme, the UK foreign secretary replied “absolutely” when asked whether she would back anyone wanting to volunteer to help the Ukrainians fighting for their freedom.

She told the programme: “That is something people can make their own decisions about. The people of Ukraine are fighting for freedom and democracy, not just for Ukraine but for the whole of Europe.
”

Truss says she would back Britons going to Ukraine to fight Russia

 

[worldwatcher]

tv
ISW published its most recent Russian campaign assessment at 3:00 pm, February 26.

This daily synthetic product covers key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

Key Takeaways February 26

• Russia has failed to encircle and isolate Kyiv with mechanized and airborne attacks as it had clearly planned to do. Russian forces are now engaging in more straightforward mechanized drives into Kyiv along a narrow front on the west bank of the Dnipro River and on a broad front to the northeast.....

Institute for the Study of War

 

[Bit of hope]

So I have a question. In numbers, how many Russians are in power who actually control the firing of their nukes? If Putin said "fire a nuke at...", in what way would it trickle down to the actual launch?

There must be a security in place against say a rouge general of pushing the button on his own. Would that not also be the case for security against a rouge President?

I've just got to believe that cooler heads would prevail. How anyone [Russians], who have lived through the Chernobyl disaster happening so near and the ongoing consquences of that many years later, ever consider a nuclear missile attack as an answer to anything? Nuclear poison being released, especially in Europe, will just make those areas unlivable for all, even the invaders who want it so much.

I can't think the Russians, besides the insane ones, would let that happen. Am I being too hopeful?

Very good question. Putin needs other people to actually launch them....I don't think he has a computer or laptop where he just pushes the button......so to say. I'm not sure how big his personal power is, if it comes to that...but some leaders arrange (like what is going on in Belarus right now, also the Turkisch president Erdogan) and changing laws to get more power. Laws and such that make them to be the ultimate power/decision maker...in other words a dictator. Let's hope he has some people in his inner circle with a clear head, but to be honest I doubt that......

 

[tedtink]

I understand....I prefer also looking at a character, behavior. The "cover" isn't always the book anyways.

Remember we discussed the possibility of a foreign legion yesterday......The President of Ukraine has called out to volunteers from abroad to help in the fights....there are actually people going there to fight with them...need to find any confirmation/MSM for this. I just heard this on a radio interview with a Dutch journalist who is in the Ukraine.

UK Foreign Secretary.............


Liz Truss: I will support Britons who want to fight against Russians in Ukraine

 

[Bit of hope]

Former Democratic presidential contender, veteran, and current legislator--Tulsi Gabbard--offers a different view of the Ukraine/Russia situation.

It's worth a listen.

I listened, but I don't get it. <modsnip>

 

[sunshineray]

This sounds like a plan.


"...The only real value in punishing oligarchs is that it makes the west feel and look good because it is doing something. Economic sanctions – cancelling the Nordstream II gas pipeline, or restricting Russia’s access to the Swift system – may have a greater effect, but they may also rebound on us in the form of higher energy prices.

However, there is a much bolder and more imaginative approach. Russia’s ruling class – the members of the Duma, the Senate, the presidential council, the top echelons of the security and defence services, top state television employees – is several thousands strong. These men (and some women) draft, rubber-stamp, promote and carry out Putin’s decisions. Some of them also – unlike the oligarchs – actually advise him.

Being a member of the Duma or Senate is a pretty cushy number – you are well-paid, you can make an occasional speech if you wish, but you are basically there to vote for the Kremlin’s decisions, and, above all, you can extort as many bribes as you can cope with. (For this reason they are detested by a majority of Russians.) Members of the presidential council are civil servants, essential for the preparation of legislation. The security services play crucial roles in executing Putin’s vision. And TV propagandists spread disinformation.

These are the people to target – because when several thousand of the people Putin actually depends on begin to feel the consequences of his policies in their personal lives, there will be a groundswell of discontent.

Most of these people love to travel to Europe and the US. They educate their children here. They own properties here. The members of the Russian elite, their families and children, love to swan around on yachts, ski slopes and fine hotels in the west, posting pictures of themselves on Instagram. If they are denied visas to travel to the west – if they are effectively imprisoned in Russia – it will not take long for the discontent to permeate the entire political class. The message to them will be clear: if you want to enjoy your western lifestyles, you need a new leader who respects western values; until then, you’re banned.

The added value of this approach is that, unlike some economic sanctions, it will not harm ordinary Russians, in fact it will delight them.

If any kind of sanctions are going to have an effect, it is these. Forget the oligarchs; go for the political elite."

Forget the obsession with sanctions against oligarchs. I have a better way to hurt Putin | Angus Roxburgh

 

[sunshineray]

Very good question. Putin needs other people to actually launch them....I don't think he has a computer or laptop where he just pushes the button......so to say. I'm not sure how big his personal power is, if it comes to that...but some leaders arrange (like what is going on in Belarus right now, also the Turkisch president Erdogan) and changing laws to get more power. Laws and such that make them to be the ultimate power/decision maker...in other words a dictator. Let's hope he has some people in his inner circle with a clear head, but to be honest I doubt that......

The Guardian piece I just linked below gave a very good picture of the hierarchy, oligarchs and elites. Military is just a whole different bunch.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Sweet family…may they survive!

During his inaugural address in 2019, Zelensky told lawmakers: “I do not want my picture in your offices: the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.”
https://twitter.com/BenjaminRamm/status/1497718974942957575
View attachment 334933

That superhero face paint.

 

[Bit of hope]

This sounds like a plan.


"...The only real value in punishing oligarchs is that it makes the west feel and look good because it is doing something. Economic sanctions – cancelling the Nordstream II gas pipeline, or restricting Russia’s access to the Swift system – may have a greater effect, but they may also rebound on us in the form of higher energy prices.

However, there is a much bolder and more imaginative approach. Russia’s ruling class – the members of the Duma, the Senate, the presidential council, the top echelons of the security and defence services, top state television employees – is several thousands strong. These men (and some women) draft, rubber-stamp, promote and carry out Putin’s decisions. Some of them also – unlike the oligarchs – actually advise him.

Being a member of the Duma or Senate is a pretty cushy number – you are well-paid, you can make an occasional speech if you wish, but you are basically there to vote for the Kremlin’s decisions, and, above all, you can extort as many bribes as you can cope with. (For this reason they are detested by a majority of Russians.) Members of the presidential council are civil servants, essential for the preparation of legislation. The security services play crucial roles in executing Putin’s vision. And TV propagandists spread disinformation.

These are the people to target – because when several thousand of the people Putin actually depends on begin to feel the consequences of his policies in their personal lives, there will be a groundswell of discontent.

Most of these people love to travel to Europe and the US. They educate their children here. They own properties here. The members of the Russian elite, their families and children, love to swan around on yachts, ski slopes and fine hotels in the west, posting pictures of themselves on Instagram. If they are denied visas to travel to the west – if they are effectively imprisoned in Russia – it will not take long for the discontent to permeate the entire political class. The message to them will be clear: if you want to enjoy your western lifestyles, you need a new leader who respects western values; until then, you’re banned.

The added value of this approach is that, unlike some economic sanctions, it will not harm ordinary Russians, in fact it will delight them.

If any kind of sanctions are going to have an effect, it is these. Forget the oligarchs; go for the political elite."

Forget the obsession with sanctions against oligarchs. I have a better way to hurt Putin | Angus Roxburgh

Actually he is saying....I know this for being around for a while.....Instead of being frustrated... if you want something to change you have to hit people in their own crotch.
<modsnip>Quoted post removed<modsnip>

LOL....(sorry) learning every day.....

 

[GRT]

I listened, but I don't get it. <modsnip>

<modsnip -reference post snipped>

This started a long time ago -- back in 2014, and it's coming to a head now because some are trying to push Ukraine into NATO.

Zelinsky looks good now, but keep in mind that Ukraine is not a democracy and he's had his political opponents jailed.

It's easy to get wrapped up in a narrative, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

Gabbard doesn't want to see this escalate into a third-world war.

I really don't think any of us do.

I see a whole lot of warmongering going on--desires and initiatives that could very well backfire.

We all want Russia to stop its aggression, but we don't all know why it's happening or the history behind it.

Gabbard offers another point of view--one that is valuable.

People are dying. I'm concerned by those who have nothing to lose ginning-up more angst. Kind of armchair quarterbacking. Real lives are being lost.

JMOO

 

[GRT]

<modsnip -quoted post removed>


<modsnip> Tulsi Gabbard was a Democratic presidential contender and the words she speaks are her own. She served in the military and she now serves in Congress. That alone should be enough to listen to her.

She's well-informed about the situation, she knows the history, and she wants to minimize deaths and escalation.

People are dying. I think it's worth listening to those who understand what's happening and why.

 

[AliceInPain]

I didn't get that from what she said.

This started a long time ago -- back in 2014, and it's coming to a head now because some are trying to push Ukraine into NATO.

Zelinsky looks good now, but keep in mind that Ukraine is not a democracy and he's had his political opponents jailed.

It's easy to get wrapped up in a narrative, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

Gabbard doesn't want to see this escalate into a third-world war.

I really don't think any of us do.

I see a whole lot of warmongering going on--desires and initiatives that could very well backfire.

We all want Russia to stop its aggression, but we don't all know why it's happening or the history behind it.

Gabbard offers another point of view--one that is valuable.

People are dying. I'm concerned by those who have nothing to lose ginning-up more angst. Kind of armchair quarterbacking. Real lives are being lost.

JMOO

Yes, Ukraine is a democracy.

 

[tedtink]

Hitchens opinion, just posting for interest.........


PETER HITCHENS: The West acts tough with Russia because we’re just too feeble to stand up to our real enemy… China.

So they finally got their war. But what are they going to do now? This is the most avoidable, needless conflict in modern history.

It was nurtured and hatched in the small minds of foolish men. There was a compromise available, but because they were too proud to consider it, terrified civilians now weep outside the ruins of what were once their homes.

At this point, these noisy boasters turn out, as usual, to have big mouths and tiny fists. The Kremlin, responding to years of deliberate humiliation, taunting and provocation, finally goes mad and invades a sovereign country. The mighty West hits back by… chucking Moscow out of the Eurovision Song Contest.

You might have thought that, after 30 years of tough talk, they could have come up with something a bit better than that. But if you had observed, as I have, the steady, shameful shrivelling of Britain’s diplomatic soft power and hard armed forces over the past three decades, you would not have been surprised.................

PETER HITCHENS: The West acts tough with Russia because we're just too feeble to stand up to China | Daily Mail Online

 

[sds71]

MOSCOW (AP) — President Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian nuclear deterrent forces on alert amid tensions with the West over Ukraine.
Putin puts Russia’s nuclear deterrent forces on alert – Reading Eagle

@idreesali114

VIENNA, Feb 27 (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog's 35-nation Board of Governors will hold an emergency meeting on Wednesday about Ukraine, where war is raging in a country with four operational nuclear power plants and various waste facilities including Chernobyl.

 

[Bit of hope]

I didn't get that from what she said.

This started a long time ago -- back in 2014, and it's coming to a head now because some are trying to push Ukraine into NATO.

Zelinsky looks good now, but keep in mind that Ukraine is not a democracy and he's had his political opponents jailed.

It's easy to get wrapped up in a narrative, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

Gabbard doesn't want to see this escalate into a third-world war.

I really don't think any of us do.

I see a whole lot of warmongering going on--desires and initiatives that could very well backfire.

We all want Russia to stop its aggression, but we don't all know why it's happening or the history behind it.

Gabbard offers another point of view--one that is valuable.

People are dying. I'm concerned by those who have nothing to lose ginning-up more angst. Kind of armchair quarterbacking. Real lives are being lost.

JMOO

It all started with Bush and Angela Merkel, trying to get Ukraine into the NATO....then the Crimea was taken. Why is Putin so scared...maybe because he has a non integer agenda? Nobody in his/her right mind would try take the Russian Federation or throw a nuclear bomb on it.....
https://www.cnbc.com/2008/04/02/bush-presses-nato-on-ukraine-georgia-afghanistan.html

I think Ukraine should decide that for them selves.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I didn't get that from what she said.

This started a long time ago -- back in 2014, and it's coming to a head now because some are trying to push Ukraine into NATO.

Zelinsky looks good now, but keep in mind that Ukraine is not a democracy and he's had his political opponents jailed.

It's easy to get wrapped up in a narrative, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

Gabbard doesn't want to see this escalate into a third-world war.

I really don't think any of us do.

I see a whole lot of warmongering going on--desires and initiatives that could very well backfire.

We all want Russia to stop its aggression, but we don't all know why it's happening or the history behind it.

Gabbard offers another point of view--one that is valuable.

People are dying. I'm concerned by those who have nothing to lose ginning-up more angst. Kind of armchair quarterbacking. Real lives are being lost.

JMOO

Ukraine is not a democracy?

Tucker Carlson says Ukraine is not a democracy. Here are the facts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...says-ukraine-is-not-democracy-here-are-facts/

Hungary, Carlson’s fave, is also listed as a “transitional or hybrid regime” and does not rank much higher than Ukraine. Ukraine’s overall Freedom House score, moreover, is higher than that of Mexico and Indonesia, two countries often labeled democracies.

(...)