Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #2

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  • #541
Also this is heartbreaking. You send people into a war and you don't have the decency to inform your people about casualties.

This site was created by representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. On it you will find information about captured and killed Russian soldiers in Ukraine since the beginning of the occupation. Here we will promptly post photos and videos that we receive from the battlefield.
If your relatives or friends are in Ukraine and participate in the war against our people - here you can get information about their fate.
Unfortunately, it is difficult to identify a lot of those killed. We deliberately post these photos and videos, you may recognize someone by indirect signs.

Ищи своих

BTW The site is blocked in the Russian Federation on the basis of the decision of the Prosecutor General's Office of the Russian Federation.
 
  • #542
Belarus approves hosting nuclear weapons, Russian forces permanently

Belarus approves hosting nuclear weapons, Russian forces permanently

Belarusians voted Monday to allow the country to host nuclear weapons and Russian forces permanently, results showed, part of a package of constitutional reforms that also extended the rule of leader Alexander Lukashenko.

Belarusians voted Monday to allow the country to host nuclear weapons and Russian forces permanently, results showed, part of a package of constitutional reforms that also extended the rule of leader Alexander Lukashenko.
 
  • #543
  • #544
As long as other countries rely on Russia for oil his pockets are full of money.

Jmo
 
  • #545
Angleterre said:
Ah interesting…. But his thoughts only make partial sense because of Bulgaria Romania Latvia et Al all being in NATO so if that’s his belief about AMDs then he must believe that these other NATO countries have them too so what difference is Ukraine going to make ?
That’s a rhetorical question btw because I’m just responding to the text from the article you allude to. Thank you for taking the time to reply, much appreciated!
Click to expand...

Here's a good (in a nutshell) article that expands on the 'Nato' narrative.

Why is Russia’s Vladimir Putin so obsessed with invading Ukraine?
The answer involves a mix of history, geography, and Putin’s desire to return his country to the glory days of Soviet Union superpower.

Putin mourns the Soviet Union
A former KGB operative, Putin has said the collapse of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest disasters of modern history. He says he does not regard the former Soviet republic of Ukraine as a real country, nor Ukrainians as separate people.

In what historians took as an extreme attack on history, Putin said in a rambling speech Monday: “Modern Ukraine was entirely and fully created by Russia.”

The Ukrainian people voted overwhelmingly in 1991, in a democratic referendum, to leave the Soviet Union and become independent.

Much of the West, probably unwittingly, bought into part of the narrative by referring to Ukraine as “the Ukraine,” the way Putin and Russian nationalists do. It’s similar to how Americans refer to “the South” or “the Midwest,” parts of the U.S., not separate countries.

No Russian empire without Ukraine
There’s a Russian adage that you can’t have a Russian empire without Ukraine, owing to its long cultural and economic history as the beating heart of the defunct Soviet Union. And Putin is hell-bent on re-creating a new empire to restore his declining country to superpower status.

To understand how Putin views Ukraine, and why it’s so entangled in his national mythology, first look at a map.

Former Soviet republics
Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia — in that order, north to south — are former Soviet Union republics that broke away into ostensibly independent nations after the communist power collapsed in 1991. They sit like a massive land barrier between Russia and Europe to the west.

But Ukraine is by far the largest, a minerals-rich vast land of fertile fields.

Tiny Georgia was invaded by Russia in 2008, and the two fought a brief war. Then, as now, Moscow accused Georgia of attacking pro-Russia breakaway enclaves like South Ossetia. France negotiated a cease-fire that ended most fighting, but Georgia did not regain the disputed territory.

Ukraine’s move toward the West
Belarus, along with several other former Soviet republics, have, or had, Kremlin-friendly leaders. But Ukraine broke from the pattern in a 2014 revolution that seated democratically elected officials and moved the country solidly toward the West. The then-pro-Russia president, Viktor Yanukovych, fled to Moscow in what became known as the Maidan revolution.

But as Ukraine sought to step out of Russia’s sphere of influence, Putin increasingly sought to draw it back. Following the Maidan revolution, he began eating away at eastern Ukraine, declaring swaths like the Donbas to be Russian because many people there speak Russian and have Russian passports.

It’s also about the money
Ukraine had also served as a lucrative source for Putin’s coffers. A Russian gas pipeline crosses Ukraine en route to Europe, ginning big profits for Moscow — money that Putin used to co-opt friendly Ukrainian politicians as well as to buy off his oligarch cronies, according to Russia experts and former diplomats.

A new Russian-backed pipeline, called Nord Stream 2, would circumvent Ukraine and take gas directly to Germany. This is the pipeline, not yet up and running, now targeted by U.S. sanctions.

Putin versus ‘rule of law’
Franklin Foer, a writer at the Atlantic magazine who traces family roots to what is today Ukraine, argues that Putin is less concerned about Ukraine joining NATO than he is about Ukraine becoming part of Europe “with its insistence on rule of law.”

Ukraine signed an “association” agreement with the European Union, on March 21, 2014, a month after the Maidan revolution and the same month Putin took control of Crimea.

Rule of law and a campaign against rampant corruption, both of which the U.S. and Europe have been urging on Kyiv with some success, further robs Putin of a tool to control or manipulate the country and its potential quislings, analysts say.

Fears of Ukrainian democracy
“What he feared most was Ukrainian democracy, which would deprive him of influence over the colonial possession that he felt was his birthright,” Foer wrote last week.

U.S diplomats in Europe — including ambassadors to Russia and Ukraine — warned throughout the 2000s that showing any inclination toward incorporating Ukraine into Western organizations like NATO would be “neuralgic” for Putin.

Putin’s goal? A submissive Ukraine
Putin now may not want to take over all of Ukraine, but he certainly wants to swallow up enough of the country to render it a submissive ghost nation, experts and analysts say. One scenario floated by U.S. intelligence is that Putin would make the invasion swift and only long enough to install a new leader.

“The fundamental crisis will not end,” Carl Bildt, former prime minister of Sweden and now a senior envoy in Europe, said on Twitter, “until Putin leaves the Kremlin and [Russia] finally decides whether it will build a modern nation state or whether it still seeks an empire.

Why is Russia's Vladimir Putin so obsessed with invading Ukraine?
 
  • #546
@fatimatlis
https://twitter.com/fatimatlis/status/1498151544549695489?s=20&t=h_8hZF3fe9dvndKvpJVWVw

Russia’s main state news agency posted, then removed a piece with invaluable insight into what Putin wanted to gain from the war he waged against Ukraine. Apparently, the war was supposed to end on Feb. 26 with full irreversible capitulation.

Putin was supposed to emerge a victorious unifier, savior and the leader of the “Russian world” announcing immediately after the defeat of Kyiv a new state that included “all three parts of the Russian nation” - Ru, Ukraine, Belarus

In this “new world” the “anti-Russian” Ukraine no longer exists. Russia is now back to its “original self, whole again,” and a global monolith, which does not have to follow the rules imposed by others but dictates its own rules to the world.

The entire ~3,000 words piece is significant for it gives a glimpse into the apparently troubled mind of Russia’s leader, but this part below is probably the most important: to Putin the existence of independent Ukraine caused a struggle with a «national humiliation complex.”

Russian invasion a 'solution to Ukrainian question' - Russian state news - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)
 
  • #547
  • #548
  • #549
  • #550
Last edited:
  • #551
  • #552
  • #553
sunshineray said:
I doubt very much that "referendum" was a legit vote by the people of Belarus.


Anti-war protests break out as Belarus votes to renounce non-nuclear status
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't, I would almost say...off course. He is a horrible dictator. He already for years keep the Belarus people in hostage. The other day I read something...where a person living there says....even when you put on your clothes in the morning and you happen to put on red/white socks (the two colors combined being a sign of going against him) they will arrest you. So if the Belarus people do this....they are very brave and heroes too.
 
  • #554
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498243206374379521?t=topXgCtiTkk-YyTe2-UKLg&s=19

⚡️Zelensky: Ukraine to release prisoners with combat experience.

Zelensky said it was a difficult moral choice but that it was necessary for the country’s defense. He said the the prisoners will be fighting in the hottest spots.

“The key is defense now.”

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498255934333894656?t=mUKh-bJpT91z_fVC6nNL-A&s=19

⚡️Russian forces burn museum with paintings of Maria Prymachenko.

A history museum in Ivankiv town, Kyiv Oblast, was destroyed by a Russian attack, according to Ustyna Stefanchuk, an art collector. The museum had about 25 works by famous Ukrainian artist Prymachenkoю

(I think they've destroyed several museums. I'll look for that again.)

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498282971412979713?t=mfV-fh3Dan05onKlSC-yuA&s=19

⚡️Oil depot burns after artillery shelling in Okhtyrka, Sumy Oblast.

Mayor Pavlo Kuzmenko reported that Russian occupiers dropped a vacuum bomb. This type of weapon is known as the most deadly non-nuclear bomb, producing high-temperature explosions.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498283832914685955?t=cNLLJTamqWBEdDVul4Tglw&s=19

⚡️National Bank of Ukraine receives Hr 1 billion ($33 million) in support for armed forces.

Earlier, the bank had opened a special account where Ukrainians and foreigners can donate money to support the military.
 
  • #555
sunshineray said:
Some Russian troops are surrendering saying they didnt know what was going to be asked of them. (I read somewhere as many as 80% were conscripts) There are some videos of some Russian captives being questioned where they say as much. Some of them look so young.


Ukrainian ambassador says Russian platoon surrendered to Ukrainian forces


Ukrainian commander in Kharkiv says dozens of Russians surrendered
Click to expand...

I think we should watch this news very carefully....I really hope they did...but I need some kind of other source to be totally convinced. IMO.
 
  • #556
Bombing residential areas. Heavy civilian losses being reported.

Thread on Twitter has more info.

https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1498272488572211204?t=mJzZk6VgoAOuV6Y8h6CpZg&s=19

The Ukraine war has reached a new level. Dozens killed & hundreds injured after Russian Grad rockets struck residential areas of Kharkiv. Sharing this video via @UKRINFORM because it's one of the few without corpses Оккупанты обстреливают жилые кварталы Харькова из \"Градов\" https://t.co/CpAFLnaCAA
 
  • #557
  • #558
Bit of hope said:
Also this is heartbreaking. You send people into a war and you don't have the decency to inform your people about casualties.

This site was created by representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. On it you will find information about captured and killed Russian soldiers in Ukraine since the beginning of the occupation. Here we will promptly post photos and videos that we receive from the battlefield.
If your relatives or friends are in Ukraine and participate in the war against our people - here you can get information about their fate.
Unfortunately, it is difficult to identify a lot of those killed. We deliberately post these photos and videos, you may recognize someone by indirect signs.

Ищи своих

BTW The site is blocked in the Russian Federation on the basis of the decision of the Prosecutor General's Office of the Russian Federation.[/QUOTE

The English translation of the description of website reads:

“This site was created by representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. On it, you will find information about captured and killed Russian soldiers in Ukraine since the beginning of the occupation. Here we will promptly post photos and videos that we receive from the battlefield. If your relatives or friends are in Ukraine and participate in the war against our people – here you can get information about their fate. Unfortunately, it is difficult to identify a lot of those killed. We deliberately post these photos and videos, you may recognize someone by indirect signs.”

“I know that many Russians are worried about how and where their children, sons, husbands are and what is happening to them — so we decided to put this online so that each of you could search for your loved one who Putin sent to fight in Ukraine,” he was quoted as saying in an AFP report.

The initiative also appears to aim at undermining morale and support for the war in Russia, where officials and State media have refrained from disclosing details of Russian casualties and military assaults against Ukrainian cities, including the capital, Kyiv.

In addition to the site, Ukraine has also launched a hotline for families, relatives, and friends of Russian soldiers who have been captured by the Ukrainian troops.

Anton Herashchenko, advisor to the Ukraine minister of internal affairs, pointed out that the hotline will inform Russian families whether their son, brother, father are still alive, taken prisoner, or if they have been injured.

The families will then be able to decide when and how to pick up/transfer the body to their home in the Russian Federation.

I know this site serves two purposes:

1. To assist relatives in Russia to find out details of their sons, husbands, brothers etc who may be injured severely or taken prisoner or killed
2. It assists Ukraine in garnering allies amongst the Russian population to garner support and stand up to Putin and to use them to help stop this humanitarian crisis and war being waged.

How desperately sad that Russia have blocked the site when there are fearful wives, children, parents , family and friends of those soldiers sent into a needless battle and war with Ukraine. They will be desperate for Information and although it is a tool for that information to be available to help them, it’s also yet another positive for the Ukraine who are using the site to show empathy and to get more Russian support to denounce Putins war on Ukraine at the same time. You have to hand it to Ukraines ‘hero’ Presidential leadership.
Click to expand...
 
  • #559
tedtink said:
Here's a good (in a nutshell) article that expands on the 'Nato' narrative.

Why is Russia’s Vladimir Putin so obsessed with invading Ukraine?
The answer involves a mix of history, geography, and Putin’s desire to return his country to the glory days of Soviet Union superpower.

Putin mourns the Soviet Union
A former KGB operative, Putin has said the collapse of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest disasters of modern history. He says he does not regard the former Soviet republic of Ukraine as a real country, nor Ukrainians as separate people.

In what historians took as an extreme attack on history, Putin said in a rambling speech Monday: “Modern Ukraine was entirely and fully created by Russia.”

The Ukrainian people voted overwhelmingly in 1991, in a democratic referendum, to leave the Soviet Union and become independent.

Much of the West, probably unwittingly, bought into part of the narrative by referring to Ukraine as “the Ukraine,” the way Putin and Russian nationalists do. It’s similar to how Americans refer to “the South” or “the Midwest,” parts of the U.S., not separate countries.

No Russian empire without Ukraine
There’s a Russian adage that you can’t have a Russian empire without Ukraine, owing to its long cultural and economic history as the beating heart of the defunct Soviet Union. And Putin is hell-bent on re-creating a new empire to restore his declining country to superpower status.

To understand how Putin views Ukraine, and why it’s so entangled in his national mythology, first look at a map.

Former Soviet republics
Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia — in that order, north to south — are former Soviet Union republics that broke away into ostensibly independent nations after the communist power collapsed in 1991. They sit like a massive land barrier between Russia and Europe to the west.

But Ukraine is by far the largest, a minerals-rich vast land of fertile fields.

Tiny Georgia was invaded by Russia in 2008, and the two fought a brief war. Then, as now, Moscow accused Georgia of attacking pro-Russia breakaway enclaves like South Ossetia. France negotiated a cease-fire that ended most fighting, but Georgia did not regain the disputed territory.

Ukraine’s move toward the West
Belarus, along with several other former Soviet republics, have, or had, Kremlin-friendly leaders. But Ukraine broke from the pattern in a 2014 revolution that seated democratically elected officials and moved the country solidly toward the West. The then-pro-Russia president, Viktor Yanukovych, fled to Moscow in what became known as the Maidan revolution.

But as Ukraine sought to step out of Russia’s sphere of influence, Putin increasingly sought to draw it back. Following the Maidan revolution, he began eating away at eastern Ukraine, declaring swaths like the Donbas to be Russian because many people there speak Russian and have Russian passports.

It’s also about the money
Ukraine had also served as a lucrative source for Putin’s coffers. A Russian gas pipeline crosses Ukraine en route to Europe, ginning big profits for Moscow — money that Putin used to co-opt friendly Ukrainian politicians as well as to buy off his oligarch cronies, according to Russia experts and former diplomats.

A new Russian-backed pipeline, called Nord Stream 2, would circumvent Ukraine and take gas directly to Germany. This is the pipeline, not yet up and running, now targeted by U.S. sanctions.

Putin versus ‘rule of law’
Franklin Foer, a writer at the Atlantic magazine who traces family roots to what is today Ukraine, argues that Putin is less concerned about Ukraine joining NATO than he is about Ukraine becoming part of Europe “with its insistence on rule of law.”

Ukraine signed an “association” agreement with the European Union, on March 21, 2014, a month after the Maidan revolution and the same month Putin took control of Crimea.

Rule of law and a campaign against rampant corruption, both of which the U.S. and Europe have been urging on Kyiv with some success, further robs Putin of a tool to control or manipulate the country and its potential quislings, analysts say.

Fears of Ukrainian democracy
“What he feared most was Ukrainian democracy, which would deprive him of influence over the colonial possession that he felt was his birthright,” Foer wrote last week.

U.S diplomats in Europe — including ambassadors to Russia and Ukraine — warned throughout the 2000s that showing any inclination toward incorporating Ukraine into Western organizations like NATO would be “neuralgic” for Putin.

Putin’s goal? A submissive Ukraine
Putin now may not want to take over all of Ukraine, but he certainly wants to swallow up enough of the country to render it a submissive ghost nation, experts and analysts say. One scenario floated by U.S. intelligence is that Putin would make the invasion swift and only long enough to install a new leader.

“The fundamental crisis will not end,” Carl Bildt, former prime minister of Sweden and now a senior envoy in Europe, said on Twitter, “until Putin leaves the Kremlin and [Russia] finally decides whether it will build a modern nation state or whether it still seeks an empire.

Why is Russia's Vladimir Putin so obsessed with invading Ukraine?
Click to expand...
Thank you
A good background read
 
  • #560
CSIDreamer said:
Bombing residential areas. Heavy civilian losses being reported.

Thread on Twitter has more info.

https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1498272488572211204?t=mJzZk6VgoAOuV6Y8h6CpZg&s=19

The Ukraine war has reached a new level. Dozens killed & hundreds injured after Russian Grad rockets struck residential areas of Kharkiv. Sharing this video via @UKRINFORM because it's one of the few without corpses Оккупанты обстреливают жилые кварталы Харькова из \"Градов\" https://t.co/CpAFLnaCAA
Click to expand...

I don't know.....but I'm in a certain mood...I would say a bomb (maybe to harsh, oeps....foutje....sorry....we suddenly had no control over this rocket....) on the so called Putin palace on the black see.
 
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