Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #3
- Thread starter margarita25
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You have had one of the US Military's finest surveillance planes in your area for at least a YEAR !
https://defence-blog.com/u-s-army-spy-planes-flies-mission-around-belarus/
You have had one of the US Military's finest surveillance planes in your area for at least a YEAR !
https://defence-blog.com/u-s-army-spy-planes-flies-mission-around-belarus/
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Gesprekken tussen Rusland en Oekraïne afgelopen: vaag akkoord over humanitaire corridors en tijdelijk staakt-het-vuren
Russia-Ukraine talks over: vague agreement on humanitarian corridors and temporary ceasefire
In Belarus, near the borders with Ukraine and Poland, representatives of Russia and Ukraine held talks for a second time. According to Ukraine, these did not yield the hoped-for result. Still, there would be a vague agreement on humanitarian corridors and a temporary ceasefire during the evacuation of civilians. There will also be a third round of negotiations early next week.
For the second time in four days, negotiators from Russia and Ukraine sat around the table. The talks lasted a little over three hours. According to the Ukrainian delegation, they have not achieved a real breakthrough.
Still, there would be a vague agreement on humanitarian corridors to evacuate civilians from areas under bombing. There is also said to have been agreed to "possibly" hold a temporary ceasefire during the evacuation of civilians.
The statements of the two delegations remain cautious, it is clear that there is only an agreement on principles, but some things still need to be worked out. The two delegations therefore agreed to organize a third round of negotiations. It was supposed to take place early next week.
Rudi Vranckx: "This agreement reminds me of what happened in Syria at the time: evacuate civilians and then continue fighting unabated"
Russia-Ukraine talks over: vague agreement on humanitarian corridors and temporary ceasefire
In Belarus, near the borders with Ukraine and Poland, representatives of Russia and Ukraine held talks for a second time. According to Ukraine, these did not yield the hoped-for result. Still, there would be a vague agreement on humanitarian corridors and a temporary ceasefire during the evacuation of civilians. There will also be a third round of negotiations early next week.
For the second time in four days, negotiators from Russia and Ukraine sat around the table. The talks lasted a little over three hours. According to the Ukrainian delegation, they have not achieved a real breakthrough.
Still, there would be a vague agreement on humanitarian corridors to evacuate civilians from areas under bombing. There is also said to have been agreed to "possibly" hold a temporary ceasefire during the evacuation of civilians.
The statements of the two delegations remain cautious, it is clear that there is only an agreement on principles, but some things still need to be worked out. The two delegations therefore agreed to organize a third round of negotiations. It was supposed to take place early next week.
Rudi Vranckx: "This agreement reminds me of what happened in Syria at the time: evacuate civilians and then continue fighting unabated"
France's Macron seems to be getting in the middle of a mess:
Emmanuel Macron steps up EU army plan to deter Russian threat
This is behind a paywall for the Telegraph UK, and I think other free sources will pick it up soon.
Essentially he wants to create a EU Military Force, saying NATO and the EU are not enough
What could go wrong, right?
(The first fight is going to be who gets to design the uniforms, France or Italy. I'd vote for North Macedonia because they have the funnest flag)
Emmanuel Macron steps up EU army plan to deter Russian threat
This is behind a paywall for the Telegraph UK, and I think other free sources will pick it up soon.
Essentially he wants to create a EU Military Force, saying NATO and the EU are not enough
What could go wrong, right?
(The first fight is going to be who gets to design the uniforms, France or Italy. I'd vote for North Macedonia because they have the funnest flag)
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This really really got me. What brilliant minds.
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I just googled this, wow. Thank you to all that are keep the rest of us informed. Caring for 3 grandbabies while parents work and this is my go to place. Huge thanks to all of you.
Tiff23fr
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I am of mixed emotion on the approach to be candid. I realize that getting Putins own to turn on him may be the strategy. Unless they, the Oligarchs, take him out somehow, I am unsure how they can get a crazed man to back down. If he does not back down, could we be doing more damage than good? Does our intelligence connect all the dots on these oligarchs and possible connections to other groups to know this will not backfire and actually trigger the escalation? UGGG
.. I wish we had a crystal ball and showed a good outcome. I wish this bad feeling in my stomach would go away.
18 min ago
The White House announced new sanctions on Russian oligarchs. Here's who will be impacted.
The new list of individuals described as "Putin's cronies and their family members" will be cut off from the US financial system, their assets in the US will be frozen, and their property will be blocked from use, according to a fact sheet from the White House.
There will be full blocking sanctions on eight Russian elites, plus their family members and associates.
Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine and Vladimir Putin news
.. I wish we had a crystal ball and showed a good outcome. I wish this bad feeling in my stomach would go away.
18 min ago
The White House announced new sanctions on Russian oligarchs. Here's who will be impacted.
The new list of individuals described as "Putin's cronies and their family members" will be cut off from the US financial system, their assets in the US will be frozen, and their property will be blocked from use, according to a fact sheet from the White House.
There will be full blocking sanctions on eight Russian elites, plus their family members and associates.
Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine and Vladimir Putin news
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I'm afraid they're stepping up the attack. JMO
I wonder how they identify which Russian billionaires they target for sanctions. I assume they have some proof/evidence that these individuals are part of the Russian oligarchy, and not just wealthy businessmen/entrpreneurs. It isn't a crime to be wealthy in a capitalist society, so I am assuming they have some evidence that ties these individuals to the Russian government in a way that justifies the sanctions. I haven't seen anything about this online, but am interested in finding out, if anyone has more information on this.
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I am of mixed emotion on the approach to be candid. I realize that getting Putins own to turn on him may be the strategy. Unless they, the Oligarchs, take him out somehow, I am unsure how they can get a crazed man to back down. If he does not back down, could we be doing more damage than good? Does our intelligence connect all the dots on these oligarchs and possible connections to other groups to know this will not backfire and actually trigger the escalation? UGGG
.. I wish we had a crystal ball and showed a good outcome. I wish this bad feeling in my stomach would go away.
18 min ago
The White House announced new sanctions on Russian oligarchs. Here's who will be impacted.
The new list of individuals described as "Putin's cronies and their family members" will be cut off from the US financial system, their assets in the US will be frozen, and their property will be blocked from use, according to a fact sheet from the White House.
There will be full blocking sanctions on eight Russian elites, plus their family members and associates.
Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine and Vladimir Putin news
I have a feeling the only reason these Russian elites are friends with Putin is the lifestyle. It's like "yachts for everybody". I doubt any of them have a decent bone in their body, but they may not appreciate him messing up their lifestyle of the ultra rich. I dont know. JMO
Darn it. I can't find this flight, now.
I wonder if this kind of military plane has a kind of cloaking device.
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I read a journalist’s RT’ed Twitter thread from a guy who works in aviation industry. He said Russia only has three weeks — at best — before their days of flying aircraft are completely done.
He said the reasons for this are many:
1. the airspace they aren’t banned from is extremely limited
2. most airliners don’t actually own their airplanes; they lease them from large companies (most of which are located in Ireland and won’t permit Russia to lease them)
3. the small number of aircraft that is owned by a Russian company is still likely Boeing or Airbus (and they are no longer working with Russian partners, will not provide them with technical or mechanical support or service manuals, and will no longer provide parts for Russian aircraft)
4. it will be very difficult for Russia to obtain insurance on whatever aircraft they managed to cobble together and no country is going to grant them access to their airspace without it
5. even if another country agreed to sell them aircraft, Russia won’t have the financial means to buy it
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Guess, it's not fair to adress the last President of the Soviet Union, but in - my mind - he is the greatest!
So going a little of topic here, but nevertheless :
Gorbachev’s resignation 30 years ago marked the end of USSR
"I still regret that I failed to bring the ship under my command to calm waters, failed to complete reforming the country,” Gorbachev wrote."
How Russia’s Nobel-Winning Newspaper Is Covering Ukraine
A group of former journalists from Komsomolskaya Pravda organised the newspaper in 1993, its first name was Ezhednevnaya Novaya Gazeta (Daily New Gazette).[7]Mikhail Gorbachev used the money from his 1990 Nobel Peace Prize to help establish the Novaya Gazeta in 1993 and purchase its first computers
Novaya Gazeta - Wikipedia
^very interesting read on Wikipedia^
It covers money laundering, curruption,murders MH17/MAS17 flight, deaths of journalists and so much more...Russian newspaper to publish in Ukranian following invasion
So going a little of topic here, but nevertheless :
Gorbachev’s resignation 30 years ago marked the end of USSR
"I still regret that I failed to bring the ship under my command to calm waters, failed to complete reforming the country,” Gorbachev wrote."
How Russia’s Nobel-Winning Newspaper Is Covering Ukraine
A group of former journalists from Komsomolskaya Pravda organised the newspaper in 1993, its first name was Ezhednevnaya Novaya Gazeta (Daily New Gazette).[7]Mikhail Gorbachev used the money from his 1990 Nobel Peace Prize to help establish the Novaya Gazeta in 1993 and purchase its first computers
Novaya Gazeta - Wikipedia
^very interesting read on Wikipedia^
It covers money laundering, curruption,murders MH17/MAS17 flight, deaths of journalists and so much more...Russian newspaper to publish in Ukranian following invasion
Tiff23fr
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I am thinking along the lines of connections with the Wagner Group and other shady or extremist organizations. A way to retaliate, but provide Putin the platform to say “It wasn’t Russia, they’re not ours”.
Maybe I am overthinking it.
——
Excerpt:
But throughout the crisis, the Russian commanders insisted, “They’re not ours.” After a battle where U.S. airstrikes probably killed dozens of Wagner Group members, the wounded survivors were eventually flown home on Russian military airplanes.
This “experiment” is disturbing because it shows that Russia may be willing to launch (or at least support) violence against the U.S. and its allies abroad, even when that violence risks upending international agreements and causing a major crisis. In that sense it mirrors what the Russian GRU is now accused of doing against U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
…
Third, for the U.S. and its allies, forewarned is forearmed. Especially after the events of February 2018 in Deir al Zour—and now with the intelligence about GRU activities in Afghanistan—U.S. and allied forces abroad know exactly how untrustworthy the Wagner Group and its GRU backers in the Putin regime can be. When this knowledge is combined with what we know about Prigozhin’s related political influence operations, Russia has lost the advantage of surprise that has propelled its hybrid warfare campaign against the U.S. and its allies. Where the U.S. and its allies should concentrate their effort now is in proactively defending themselves against whatever Prigozhin, the GRU, and the Wagner Group may try next.
https://www.congress.gov/116/meetin...ses/HHRG-116-FA14-Wstate-MartenK-20200707.pdf
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I wonder if this also applies to the Russian -controlled countries like Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan.
This was in reference to the above post about Russian airlines failing in 3 weeks
This was in reference to the above post about Russian airlines failing in 3 weeks
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Agree about Erdogan.
But one thing that was important is that Turkish Airline was one of the few ways people could get out of Russia, including expats and Russian people worried about martial law.
Also, I did see a Turkish airforce plane land in eastern Poland (same airport where other countries' air force planes were landing) yesterday for about 2 hours. I presume they were dropping off supplies (lethal and/or non-lethal) for use on Ukraine side.
OT: I also saw a plane arrive there yesterday from Madrid with supplies for Chef Jose's World Kitchen NGO! (This might have been mentioned earlier in the thread, as I haven't read all of the posts.)
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Ukraine: How a week of war has transformed lives
Seven days which sparked a burning patriotic resolve in Ukraine, which propelled people the world over, from presidents and prime ministers, bankers and business leaders, football stars to figure skaters, artists and activists, to stand up and be counted to condemn Russia's aggression.
The Russian rouble collapsed, the UN General Assembly called on Moscow to pull out; Russian leaders denounced this "Russiaphobic frenzy." And, on the ground, swathes of Europe's second-largest country were reduced to smoking ruins, a harrowing echo of Russia's blistering campaigns in Grozny and Aleppo.
In the days before Russia invaded Ukraine, Kyiv was a European city of golden-domed cathedrals gleaming in the night, brightly-lit restaurants serving steaming bowls of borsch, corner kiosks pouring coffee behind frosty winter windows.
And the world was a place where many thought a blitzkrieg across a border was only history's business. At the Munich Security Conference, many a government minister quietly told me "I just don't think it will happen". And, of course, not against the capital.
But in her home in Kyiv, 37-year-old Liana was ready bags packed, including some books; clothes ironed, enough money from an ATM to last a while. Her mother Vera refused to do the same. Her friends poked fun at her. But Liana's son Rustam, a bespectacled 13-year-old wired to his smartphone, was ready too.
In the dead of night on Thursday 24 February, in a city which couldn't sleep, rumours and reports electrified social media and exploded in chat groups.
This snippet "Russian action will begin at 4am" shot through cyberspace with the kind of chilling precision Western intelligence reports had used for weeks to warn of "an imminent invasion" by nearly 200,00 Russian troops and heavy weaponry now massed along the borders.
Local flights kept cancelling, parents wondered if they should take their children to school in the morning, journalists started asking each other if they were staying.
By 05:00, posts cascaded across the internet - "hearing thuds" in Kyiv, Kramatorsk, Melitopol, Chernobyl, Odessa. The list was long.
At 05:58, Ukraine's Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted "Putin has launched a full-scale invasion". Hours earlier, President Vladimir Putin had announced the start of a "special military operation" in eastern Ukraine.
At 06:00 Liana called her mother. "I told you so. Are you packed?"
By nightfall, roads out of Kyiv were gridlocked. Homes were emptied of energy as a city went underground, to basements and bomb shelters, to subway stations with marble stairways and magnificent mosaics built deep below in the 1960s to also double as Cold War bunkers.
(...)
Long feature by the BBC's Lyse Doucet at link
Seven days which sparked a burning patriotic resolve in Ukraine, which propelled people the world over, from presidents and prime ministers, bankers and business leaders, football stars to figure skaters, artists and activists, to stand up and be counted to condemn Russia's aggression.
The Russian rouble collapsed, the UN General Assembly called on Moscow to pull out; Russian leaders denounced this "Russiaphobic frenzy." And, on the ground, swathes of Europe's second-largest country were reduced to smoking ruins, a harrowing echo of Russia's blistering campaigns in Grozny and Aleppo.
In the days before Russia invaded Ukraine, Kyiv was a European city of golden-domed cathedrals gleaming in the night, brightly-lit restaurants serving steaming bowls of borsch, corner kiosks pouring coffee behind frosty winter windows.
And the world was a place where many thought a blitzkrieg across a border was only history's business. At the Munich Security Conference, many a government minister quietly told me "I just don't think it will happen". And, of course, not against the capital.
But in her home in Kyiv, 37-year-old Liana was ready bags packed, including some books; clothes ironed, enough money from an ATM to last a while. Her mother Vera refused to do the same. Her friends poked fun at her. But Liana's son Rustam, a bespectacled 13-year-old wired to his smartphone, was ready too.
In the dead of night on Thursday 24 February, in a city which couldn't sleep, rumours and reports electrified social media and exploded in chat groups.
This snippet "Russian action will begin at 4am" shot through cyberspace with the kind of chilling precision Western intelligence reports had used for weeks to warn of "an imminent invasion" by nearly 200,00 Russian troops and heavy weaponry now massed along the borders.
Local flights kept cancelling, parents wondered if they should take their children to school in the morning, journalists started asking each other if they were staying.
By 05:00, posts cascaded across the internet - "hearing thuds" in Kyiv, Kramatorsk, Melitopol, Chernobyl, Odessa. The list was long.
At 05:58, Ukraine's Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted "Putin has launched a full-scale invasion". Hours earlier, President Vladimir Putin had announced the start of a "special military operation" in eastern Ukraine.
At 06:00 Liana called her mother. "I told you so. Are you packed?"
By nightfall, roads out of Kyiv were gridlocked. Homes were emptied of energy as a city went underground, to basements and bomb shelters, to subway stations with marble stairways and magnificent mosaics built deep below in the 1960s to also double as Cold War bunkers.
(...)
Long feature by the BBC's Lyse Doucet at link
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