Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[sds71]

Ukraine is ready to hold a dialogue with Russia on security guarantees, on the future of the occupied territories of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, Crimea, but is not ready to capitulate. This was stated by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview for ABC News.

"I've cooled down regarding this question a long time ago after we understood that NATO isn't prepared to accept Ukraine."

"I have spoken many times about NATO and publicly conveyed messages to both Russia and President Putin: we are ready for any guarantees of our country's security from the respective states that must guarantee. And Russia is also among these states, because Russia is our neighbor," he said.

"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender, we are not ready for ultimatums. But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas," the President added.

Ukraine must have a collective security agreement with all its neighbors with the participation of the world's leading powers - President — Official website of the President of Ukraine

 

[sunshineray]

Ukraine latest news: Zelensky says Putin will attack Nato next | The Independent
''Russia will target Nato members next, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky has warned.
rbbm.
“When the limits of rights and freedoms are being violated and stepped on, then you have to protect us,” he urged Europe. “Because we will come first, you will come second.”

His warning comes as Russia continues to bombard cities across Ukraine, with Kyiv accusing Moscow of breaking a ceasefire agreement on Tuesday by shelling a civilian evacuation route from the besieged city of Mariupol.

Mr Zelensky announced that a child had died of dehydration in Mariupol on Monday as a result of the Russian force’s shelling of the city and their closure of its supply lines. This is the first time someone has died from dehydration in Ukraine since the end of the Second World War, he said.''

''UN reportedly tells staff not to use ‘war’ or ‘invasion’ to describe Putin’s attack on Ukraine
The UN has instructed its staff not to use the words “war” or “invasion” to describe Vladimir Putin’s attacks on Ukraine, it has emerged.

In an email seen by The Irish Times, the UN communications department wrote: “Some specific examples of language to use/not use at the moment.

“[Use] ‘conflict’ or ‘military offensive’ and NOT ‘war’ or ‘invasion’ when referring to the situation in Ukraine.”

''UN reportedly tells staff not to use ‘war’ or ‘invasion’ to describe Putin’s attack on Ukraine
The UN has instructed its staff not to use the words “war” or “invasion” to describe Vladimir Putin’s attacks on Ukraine, it has emerged.

In an email seen by The Irish Times, the UN communications department wrote: “Some specific examples of language to use/not use at the moment.

“[Use] ‘conflict’ or ‘military offensive’ and NOT ‘war’ or ‘invasion’ when referring to the situation in Ukraine.”

^^THIS^^

WHAT IS THIS BULL TOOTIE!!!???

Someone at the UN needs to address this immediately! I'm just enraged by this.

I wonder, is there even a mechanism in place to challenge Russia's status as a permanent member of the security council? Didn't the Ukrainian General Assembly member/speaker say that the Russian Federation was never ratified by a UN vote?

 

[sunshineray]

Ukraine is ready to hold a dialogue with Russia on security guarantees, on the future of the occupied territories of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, Crimea, but is not ready to capitulate. This was stated by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview for ABC News.

"I've cooled down regarding this question a long time ago after we understood that NATO isn't prepared to accept Ukraine."

"I have spoken many times about NATO and publicly conveyed messages to both Russia and President Putin: we are ready for any guarantees of our country's security from the respective states that must guarantee. And Russia is also among these states, because Russia is our neighbor," he said.

"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender, we are not ready for ultimatums. But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas," the President added.

Ukraine must have a collective security agreement with all its neighbors with the participation of the world's leading powers - President — Official website of the President of Ukraine

Yes Ukraine has an ultimatum, after it agrees to Donetsk and Luhansk regions and Crimea being as well as lost. Invaders must leave the Ukraine at once, no occupation.
I know many don't agree, AJMO

 

[Sundog]

Just to clarify something here, as I'm a bit miffed. I realize tensions and emotions are off the charts, but still.

The International Red Cross is losing their minds along with everyone else. While I'm not necessarily a fan of them, they've been on the ground trying to work on evacuations every time they've failed. They aren't part of the war. There is no reason for anyone to start using Red Cross symbols on their own equipment. The Red Cross is neutral and trying desperately to evacuate civilians.

Rant over.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1501136976447168512?t=gYB78yAx9sKbGxkBWXXUOQ&s=19

️Zelensky: "International Committee of the Red Cross is forbidding us to use their emblem on the humanitarian mission vehicles.

It's very revealing. Some influential people would rather 'cross out' Ukraine."

It's important that the Red Cross/Red Crescent organization remain neutral to maintain their credibility and be effective in every situation they are needed to save lives, regardless of the region of the world or nation they are serving.

 

[Herat]

Flightradar 24 - What is going on with Kaliningrad?

I'm bothered as to why Aeroflot is chosing Airbus -sized planes for it's flights into and out of Kaliningrad. Both from Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Those are big passenger planes. Why would there be a need for planes of that size to be arriving and departing Kaliningrad, unless maybe Russian citizens are trying to get out ?

There are 3 large Russian commercial flights that have just landed or are on their way Russia- Kaliningrad: Aeroflot, Pobeda, and two large Airbus planes that have just left Kalinigrad-Russia.

I haven't checked before, but this seems very odd for a country of 437,000 people to be receiving these large flights.

Glad the Allies have eyes and ears on this one.

I've got my eyes on a Russian Air Force Russiya Special Forces plane (the same kind of plane that flew to the US to remove 50 Russians being ejected from the US). currently between Moscow and St. Petersberg. Watching to see where it goes from there

 

[dotr]

Putin and the invasion: Teacher talks Russia's 'Big Brother' | CTV News
March 8 2022 rbbm.
''KRAKOW, POLAND -- A Russian teacher who fled to Poland is shedding light on the misinformation campaigns and surveillance the Russian people face when it comes to this invasion.

The Russian Studies teacher said the Russian people are given a watered-down version of events on the news.

“If you hear from TV, if you hear from your parents, your teachers that this is not bad, then you still don’t have enough knowledge and you don’t have enough analytical skills to make your own opinion,” she told CTV National News Chief Anchor and Senior Editor Lisa LaFlamme.''

''Since leaving Russia, she said she has had to shut down her Instagram account for safety reasons and changed the phone number that’s linked to it.
“We always know that Big Brother is behind you and he is watching you,” she said.''

 

[CSIDreamer]

I know this is my 2nd insertion of Ukraine history lessons here. I like to learn as I go. This is about Holodomor. The 1930s when Russia starved millions of Ukrainians to death. In all honesty, I don't think Russia wants Ukraine, as much as they just want to completely wipe them off the earth.

Holodomor | Facts, Definition, & Death Toll

 

[scandinavian girl]

Thousands of Russians arriving in Finland

Russians Leaving Their Country for Finland Due to Fear of Isolation - SchengenVisaInfo.com

 

[CSIDreamer]

Flightradar 24 - What is going on with Kaliningrad?

I'm bothered as to why Aeroflot is chosing Airbus -sized planes for it's flights into and out of Kaliningrad. Both from Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Those are big passenger planes. Why would there be a need for planes of that size to be arriving and departing Kaliningrad, unless maybe Russian citizens are trying to get out ?

There are 3 large Russian commercial flights that have just landed or are on their way Russia- Kaliningrad: Aeroflot, Pobeda, and two large Airbus planes that have just left Kalinigrad-Russia.

I haven't checked before, but this seems very odd for a country of 437,000 people to be receiving these large flights.

Glad the Allies have eyes and ears on this one.

I've got my eyes on a Russian Air Force Russiya Special Forces plane (the same kind of plane that flew to the US to remove 50 Russians being ejected from the US). currently between Moscow and St. Petersberg. Watching to see where it goes from there

What's the capacity of the planes you're watching? Very interesting, indeed. JMO

 

[Vern]

It's complicated...I don't think you can say one on one they (we as Europeans) don't value Ukrainians lives.

There are roughly 6 reasons why Europe will find it difficult to get rid of Russian gas in the short term.

...

Yes, complicated.....

Above respectfully snipped by me.

All of which is correctable in the very near and short term. There's plenty of 'clean' oil & gas suppliers out there (I live in one such place) who are able to and willing to supply. Germany needs to make use of them rather than continue to buy 'dirty oil', no matter how cheap it is, from the Russians. That oil money is now what is funding the continued occupation, war and aggression in Ukraine.

It's not really complicated - it's about money. The time for supporting dictatorships should be DONE. The world needs to cease and desist from funding their corruption and aggression (sometimes against their very own citizens - Hey! Saudi Arabia!) else the world deems that oil is more highly valued.

You'd think we'd have learned this lesson ages ago. Shame on us.

 

[dotr]

I know this is my 2nd insertion of Ukraine history lessons here. I like to learn as I go. This is about Holodomor. The 1930s when Russia starved millions of Ukrainians to death. In all honesty, I don't think Russia wants Ukraine, as much as they just want to completely wipe them off the earth.

Holodomor | Facts, Definition, & Death Toll

Wondering how many might be looking at the destruction in Ukraine and rubbing hands together in greedy anticipation of replacing all that has been ruined?
A great deal will have to be replaced, cleaned up, fixed etc. and basically re-developed, not to mention the purchasing of basic household items like furniture, stoves and televisions etc, It will mean a lot of construction work and $$$ for some - hmm, maybe necessity is the mother of invasion.
speculation, imo.

 

[Bit of hope]

Above respectfully snipped by me.

All of which is correctable in the very near and short term. There's plenty of 'clean' oil suppliers out there (I live in one such place) who are able to and willing to supply. Germany needs to make use of them rather than continue to buy 'dirty oil, no matter how cheap it is, from the Russians. That oil money is now what is funding the continued occupation, war and aggression in Ukraine.

It's not really complicated - it's about money.

Yes, also....our expenses that already go sky high. For a lot of families they wouldn't be able to cook, buy fuel or warm our houses, take a shower...whatever...we are depending on gas....what is it you don't get.

 

[Vern]

'They desperately need people': The Canadians heading to Ukraine to help in the fight against Russia

oh wow:

Fines issued after plane with Russian nationals on board grounded in Yellowknife

Some of my friends have already signed up; a couple have left. Godspeed to them and to Ukraine.

 

[Vern]

Yes, also....our expenses that already go sky high. For a lot of families they wouldn't be able to cook, buy fuel or warm our houses, take a shower...whatever...what is it you don't get.

I'm good with accepting that in the near term. Ukrainian lives depend on it and they've got it a WHOLE lot worse than I do.

As I said, it's where one places the value of that oil. I place Ukrainian lives higher especially so given that other suppliers are ready, willing and able to supply.

 

[Vern]

Wondering how many might be looking at the destruction in Ukraine and rubbing hands together in greedy anticipation of replacing all that has been ruined?
A great deal will have to be replaced, cleaned up, fixed etc. and basically re-developed, not to mention the purchasing of basic household items like furniture, stoves and televisions etc, It will mean a lot of construction work and $$$ for some - hmm, maybe necessity is the mother of invasion.
speculation, imo.

Probably just as many of us who are sitting here ruing the fact that NATO is sitting back and talking the talk vice walking the walk. We are a "defensive organization", so as a non-NATO country, Ukraine gets to suffer. The fact that we troops are sitting on our hinies watching a genocide occurring and allowing such to happen, while wringing our collective hands in despair, is offensive to a fair number of us.

Obviously, Russia is NOT deterred - that's a NATO FAIL.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm good with accepting that in the near term. Ukrainian lives depend on it and they've got it a WHOLE lot worse than I do.

As I said, it's where one places the value of that oil. I place Ukrainian lives higher especially so given that other suppliers are ready, willing and able to supply.

I'm sorry.....it's just not realistic...tried to explain and you are just seem to not taking things in perspective....Could I miss cooking, showering...not able to move myself by car....if that is the way to prevent more deaths in Ukraine.....yes, maybe as a person I would be in peace with that, but I don't think so... shutting off Russia from delivering ...I don't think this is the solution.

 

[sunshineray]

I know this is my 2nd insertion of Ukraine history lessons here. I like to learn as I go. This is about Holodomor. The 1930s when Russia starved millions of Ukrainians to death. In all honesty, I don't think Russia wants Ukraine, as much as they just want to completely wipe them off the earth.

Holodomor | Facts, Definition, & Death Toll

Oh I think Putin wants the Ukraine back. It's a huge part of his "Russian World".

There's a movie called Citizen K. It's about a Russian oligarch and his downfall. He was at one time the richest man in Russia.

Putin is also in this movie.
At 7:28 minutes in, he's at a question and answer type thing where s young girl asks him, "What happened in your life that most influenced you?

"Something that happened in my life?"
"Yes", she says
He pondered it and said, "I will try to answer this seriously. After all probably, it is the collapse of the Soviet Union."
Little girl smiles at him and he adds, " It's an adult answer, I'm sorry. It's was an adult question."

 

[Arkay]

Above respectfully snipped by me.

All of which is correctable in the very near and short term. There's plenty of 'clean' oil & gas suppliers out there (I live in one such place) who are able to and willing to supply. Germany needs to make use of them rather than continue to buy 'dirty oil', no matter how cheap it is, from the Russians. That oil money is now what is funding the continued occupation, war and aggression in Ukraine.

It's not really complicated - it's about money. The time for supporting dictatorships should be DONE. The world needs to cease and desist from funding their corruption and aggression (sometimes against their very own citizens - Hey! Saudi Arabia!) else the world deems that oil is more highly valued.

You'd think we'd have learned this lesson ages ago. Shame on us.

Agreed.

Not a fan of Saudi Arabia as they are so oppressive to their people, but anywhere except Iran. IMO we can't get oil from a terrorist regime and an enemy of the United States.

There are certainly other countries, like yours and mine, where we really can be more self-sufficient.

 

[Bit of hope]

Yes, There are specific rules from the Geneva Convention in regards to where and how the emblem may be displayed. Without rules, a Russian vehicle with ill intent could just as easily attach the emblem to their vehicle.

It is easy to get frustrated. I can’t imagine the frustration Zelensky is experiencing. While we do not know the full context of what is being requested or referred to, I feel it is up to the IRC to uphold the rules in place not matter how difficult that may be. JMO

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/publications/icrc-002-0173.pdf

Exactly! The sign may be misused.

 

[Vern]

I'm sorry.....it's just not realistic...tried to explain and you are just seem to not taking things in perspective....Could I miss cooking, showering...not able to move myself by car....if that is the way to prevent more deaths in Ukraine.....yes, maybe as a person I would be in peace with that, but I don't think so... shutting off Russia from delivering ...I don't think this is the solution.

I understand your points fully. I just don't agree with them. It is the west's failure to utilize clean oil in the first place (ie: using a dictator's oil in the first place) that causes this current conundrum. Those places chose to use a dictatorial regime's oil because it is cheap.

Those decisions will cost the free world in the long run, and are costing Ukraine now. Cut off their funding ... or sit back, fund them via those oil & gas sales and watch this war expand in scale - because it will (if it hasn't already - see Lukashenko's map posted by me earlier with Moldova, yet another sovereign nation, clearly targeted for invasion on it).

My .02 cents worth.