Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #8

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  • #561
I don't understand your thoughts here. Ukraine is a sovereign nation - Other than having them surrender and becoming a parking lot for the Russian troops and equipment that will be readying for the next take-over of the next country on their western border .... what should they do?

I think one can tell by this thread that we are all troubled, but I don't think the citizens of Ukraine are willing to surrender their very existence. I don't blame them a bit. You don't want to visit Russia, but they really don't want to be PART of Russia. Seems pretty fair to me.

(And, I'm pretty sure they don't want to be "neutral" either as Russia has already broken their promise to Ukraine to 'never' invade them when they handed them back their Soviet era nukes [liars that Russia is!!], so I'm ALL for letting Ukraine, again a sovereign and democratic nation, decide which and what alliances they choose to belong to and not some dictator living across the border.)

I understand my thoughts. :)

As a sovereign nation, there has been animosity between them and Russia for the roughly 30 years they've been sovereign. I don’t believe any one of us here has all the answers, or we would be calling the shots.

JMO
 
  • #562
I understand my thoughts. :)

As a sovereign nation, there has been animosity between them and Russia for the roughly 30 years they've been sovereign. I don’t believe any one of us here has all the answers, or we would be calling the shots.

JMO

I agree completely. Without a political resolution, even when this current war ends, these two countries may be locked into a frozen conflict that will flare up again and again until a political resolution is reached. I would like to see more of the NATO countries and Ukrainian and Russian allies to be working harder on efforts to help the two countries come to a political resolution that they both can live with.
 
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  • #563
The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 8 hrs ago
Governor denies reports of Odesa beaches being demined. Odesa Oblast Governor Maksym Marchenko urged residents of the region on April 17 not to visit the beaches.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 6 hrs ago
Ukrainian army says it destroyed 10 tanks in Donbas over past 24 hours. Ukrainian troops have also destroyed 5 artillery pieces, 15 armored vehicles, and two helicopters, the Joint Forces Operation said on April 17. Twelve enemy аttacks have been repelled.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Intelligence chief: Putin unlikely to use nuclear weapons. The Russian dictator's nuclear threats are blackmail, and the use of nuclear weapons is technically difficult, Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukraine's military intelligence, said on April 17.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Things Ukrainian women are knitting now
"Kikimoras" in Russian mythology were evil spirits causing harm to house masters. Now this name is used for ghillie suits to mask Ukrainian soldiers.
FQkz3cEX0AkLXn6
FQkz3xWWYAA6CVR


The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 5 hrs ago
Explosions heard in Kherson, media outlet Suspilne reports. The explosions can mean Russian missiles hit targets or were taken down by Ukrainian air defense. Kherson has been under temporary occupation by Russian forces since March 3.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 4 hrs ago
Zelensky: 'Every delay in weapons is permission for Russia to take the lives of Ukrainians.' Zelensky said that as Russia prepares to launch a new offensive in the east, those hesitating sending weapons Ukraine needs “should know the fate of this battle also depends on them.”

Euromaidan Press on Twitter - 3 hrs ago
Russians start mobilizing men in occupied Izium
plan to use personal data collected during humanitarian aid distribution to falsify results of referendum for "Kherson People's Republic," with mobilization likely to start after GenStaff, 18.00 17 Apr https://buff.ly/3Oceiel

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 2 hrs ago
Russian military forcibly removes around 150 children from Mariupol. The Crimean Human Rights Group reported on April 17, citing an advisor to Mariupol’s Mayor Petro Andriushchenko, that many of the children were taken from hospitals and were not orphans.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
The children have reportedly been transferred in the direction of temporarily-occupied Donetsk and the Russian city of Taganrog.
 
  • #564
Zelensky speaks with CNN’s Jake Tapper

Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine (cnn.com)
[...]

"You lost ancestors in the Holocaust. Every year on Holocaust Remembrance Day, politicians put out statements that say, never again, never again. Those statements must seem really hollow right now to you. When the world says never again, do they ever mean it?" Tapper asked.

Zelensky responded, "I don't believe the world. After we have seen what's going on in Ukraine, we've — I mean that I don't believe to this feeling that we should believe to the — to the — some countries or some leaders. We don't believe the words. After the escalation of Russia, we don't believe our neighbors. We don't believe all of this."

The Ukrainian president went on to say that he doesn't even believe in documented security assurances and international law as the war in Ukraine rages, and with Russia accused of alleged war crimes.

"Even I don't believe documents, because we also have a Budapest Memorandum — I think you know all of the details of this. For me, that is just a piece of paper and costs nothing," Zelensky said

Zelensky told CNN that his faith and his belief lies with practical, tangible efforts and the Ukrainian people.

[...]
 
  • #565
Questions about fate of the crew of sunken Russian warship Moskva

Russia has been accused of suppressing details of crew deaths


(...)

The Soviet-era flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet sank on Thursday as it was being towed back to port after a fire, according to the Russian defence ministry, however Ukraine said the blaze was caused by its missile strike.

A video was released by the ministry on Saturday (that) purported to show the survivors of the ship on a parade ground in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol.

In the clip, Russia’s Navy chief Nikolai Yevmenov and two other officers can be seen talking with crew members. It is not known when the clip was recorded.

Ukraine claims hundreds of the 510 sailors on board died when the ship sunk – but Russia insists the crew were all successfully evacuated to other ships before returning to Sevastopol on Friday.

There were only around 150 men visible on the Sevastopol parade ground and Russia has not made it clear why so many were missing.

Some journalists have questioned why details of the crew deaths have not been published or why their families have not discussed the incident.

Nataliya Vasilyeva, Moscow correspondent for The Telegraph said: “What is most stunning is we haven’t seen a single wife or mother going public about the loss, demanding answers from the Russian government.”

BBC reporter Liza Fokht questioned why there was still no clear official report of what exactly happened to the crew, as she alleged a wreath at a memorial for the ship in Sevastopol on Friday said “to the ship and sailors” – suggesting some died.

Pavel Lobkov, a correspondent for Russian television channel NTV, asked why there had been no details released about the crew, their widows or relevant words about heroism and official condolences.

(...)
 
  • #566
  • #567
Multiple explosions reported in Ukrainian city of Lviv

Authorities in Ukraine have reported multiple explosions in western and southern regions as Russian forces claimed near full control of the strategic southern port city of Mariupol following almost two months of fighting.

After failing to overcome Ukrainian resistance in the north, the Russian military has refocused its ground offensive on Donbas, while launching long-distance strikes at targets elsewhere, including the capital, Kyiv.

In the regions of Lviv and Dnipropetrovsk, authorities reported multiple explosions this morning.

According to media outlet Suspilne, two people were wounded in the Dnipropetrovsk attacks.

Lviv mayor Andriy Sadoviy said there had been five missile strikes on the city.

The region's governor said six people had been killed and eight wounded.

Maksym Kozystkiy said three missiles hit military infrastructure facilities, while one struck a car tire replacement facility.

In Kyiv, a Reuters reporter heard a series of blasts on the left bank of the Dnipro river. Local authorities were yet to provide any official information on their cause.

(...)
 
  • #568

Thank you. Besides the pictures there are also very interesting stories of parents who have been left completely in the dark about the faith of their conscript! sailor sons.

After the Moskva was sunk, she said: 'We went to the unit. The commander came out, threw up his hands and said: "I won't tell you anything."

'I said: "Where is my son?", and he said: "Well, somewhere in the sea." My husband began to argue: "What does it mean in the sea? Where have you been?" But unit commander refused to answer. These commanders were not on the ship.'
 
  • #569
  • #570
@idreesali114

April 18 (Reuters) - Two British fighters captured in Ukraine by Russian forces appeared on Russian state TV on Monday and asked to be exchanged for a pro-Russian politician who is being held by the Ukrainian authorities.
 
  • #571
The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 5 hrs ago
Luhansk Oblast Governor: Russian troops entered Kreminna, evacuation impossible. Governor Serhiy Haidai said that fighting continues within the city, home to 20,000 people before the war. He added that evacuation was planned for today, but the situation changed overnight.

Kreminna - Google Maps

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Russia shells 9 settlements in Donetsk Oblast in past 24 hours, killing 2 civilians. According to the Interior Ministry, another nine people were injured. At least 20 civilian facilities were damaged, among them residential buildings, railway infrastructure, and a stadium.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 4 hrs ago
No humanitarian corridors two days in a row. Russian troops didn’t agree to a Ukrainian ceasefire proposal along several evacuation routes, Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
State Border Guard Service: over a million people have returned to Ukraine since Feb. 24. Spokesman Andriy Demchenko told Ukrainska Pravda that on April 16, for the first time since the start of the full-scale war, more people entered Ukraine than left.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 2 hrs ago
SBU publishes video of pro-Kremlin politician Medvedchuk asking to be exchanged for Mariupol residents, defenders. In the video, Viktor Medvedchuk asks Putin to take him to Russia in return for a safe passage for residents of besieged Mariupol, and soldiers defending the city.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
9 killed, 25 wounded in Kharkiv Oblast over past 24 hours. The Kharkiv Oblast Council reported that Russia heavily shelled residential areas in Kharkiv, 24 people were injured, and 6 died. Another 2 people were killed and 1 injured in Derhachi & 1 death reported near Zolochiv.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 1 hr ago
Death toll rises to 7 in Russia’s attack on Lviv; 11 injured. According to Lviv Oblast Governor Maksym Kozytsky, Russia shot four missiles at unused military warehouses, and one at a civilian site.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Ukrainian authorities warn Russia can be preparing attacks on churches on Orthodox Easter Day. Russian media outlets have published false information about Ukrainian forces planning on shelling Orthodox churches in several Ukrainian regions on Orthodox Easter, April 24. 1/2

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Ukraine’s Security and Defense Council's Center for Counteracting Disinformation has warned that the messages can indicate that Russians will carry out such attacks themselves to frame the Ukrainian forces. 2/2

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 30 min ago
Russians launch missile strike at Kramatorsk, no casualties reported. At least 8 residential buildings, educational and infrastructural facilities were damaged as a result of the attack on April 18, according to Donetsk Oblast Governor Pavlo Kyrylenko.

Kramatorsk - Google Maps
 
  • #572
Euromaidan Press on Twitter - 9 hrs ago
Russian occupiers hand out passes without which they won't be able to leave homes from next week - Mariupol mayor advisor They also started "filtration" of residents, 5-10% of men don't pass & end up in occupied &Donbas
The occupiers issue passes to Mariupol residents, without which they will be forbidden to go out | ZMINA

Euromaidan Press on Twitter - 2 hrs ago
As of Apr 18, Russians are holding at least 27,000 people in "filtration camps" along the line Manhush-Mykilske-Yalta, and in Bezimenne (Donetsk Obl.), Mariupol mayor's adviser Petro Andryushchenko says https://t.me/andriyshTime/317… Those are being prepared for deportation to Russia

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Commander of Ukraine marines in Mariupol asks the Pope to help evacuate civilians from the besieged city The commander of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, Maj. Serhiy Volyna, wrote a letter to @Pontifex asking him to help save the residents of Mariupol The commander of the Marines appealed to the Pope – asks to save people from Mariupol | Ukrayinska Pravda
771a41c-278478611-1342774189567725-4972868599286206791-n--1-.jpg


Euromaidan Press on Twitter
"At the [Azovstal] plant, women with children, babies live in bunkers. In hunger and cold. Every day in crosshairs of enemy aviation. The wounded die every day because there is no medicines, water, food," Volyna wrote to Pope Francis.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Maj. Volyna asks the Pope to help save the Mariupol civilians: "After the bombing of the drama theater, no one believes the Russian occupiers. Tell the world the truth, evacuate people, and save their lives from the hands of Satan, who wants to burn all living things."

Euromaidan Press on Twitter - 1 hr ago
In occupied Henichesk, Kherson Oblast, Russian military installs a monument to Lenin, according to Regional Council's official Yurii Sobolevskyi. Most of the monuments to communist leaders were dismantled in Ukraine under the Decommunization law. PHOTO CREDIT: Facebook/Yurii Sobolevskyi
FQoDSOFXMAEZtkJ


Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Previously, the Ukrainian Ombudsperson reported that Russia was going to conduct a fake referendum in the occupied Kherson Oblast to proclaim a "Kherson people's republic."

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Russia has already appointed Igor Kastsyukevich, a Russian MP from Putin's United Russia party, as a "mayor of Kherson." The photo shows Kastyukevich (L) meeting Sergei Aksyonov (R), the head of Russia's occupation administration of Crimea. https://t.me/pryamiy/27811

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Aftermath of this morning's Russian missile strike on Lviv. PHOTO CREDIT: Suspilne https://t.me/suspilnenews/9842
FQngH-bXoAEC5aM
FQngJbJXIAIClMF


Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Russian forces have captured the town of Kreminna in Luhansk Oblast after three-day fighting, the town head said. The Russian big offensive in Donbas "slowly but began," Oblast head said after Russians attacked Kreminna massively and broke through. https://radiosvoboda.org/a/news-kreminna-okupacija/31808478.html

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Russians attacked Kreminna with huge forces. One of the Ukrainian units, not bigger than a platoon, was attacked by Russian 43 armored objects: tanks, APCs. Some were destroyed, but not all. Ukrainian forces retreated and regrouped, the town governor added https://radiosvoboda.org/a/news-kreminna-okupacija/31808478.html

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
The map by http://sprotyv.info shows 1505 Russian invaders who were publicly buried or officially recognized by Russia as killed in Ukraine. While these are not all Russians who died, the map shows from where Russian soldiers come. Mostly from remote regions, only 3 were buried in Moscow
FQoZI4YX0AEsWr6
 
  • #573
I understand my thoughts. :)

As a sovereign nation, there has been animosity between them and Russia for the roughly 30 years they've been sovereign. I don’t believe any one of us here has all the answers, or we would be calling the shots.

JMO

I agree, but only one of them invaded the other (the dictatorship invaded the democratic sovereign nation) ... it seems to me that Ukrainians are indeed calling their shots. They don't wish to live under the dictatorship that is Putin's Russia.

I actually think they've made that very clear, so the rest of us really have zero say on the matter.
 
  • #574
Zelensky speaks with CNN’s Jake Tapper

Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine (cnn.com)
[...]

"You lost ancestors in the Holocaust. Every year on Holocaust Remembrance Day, politicians put out statements that say, never again, never again. Those statements must seem really hollow right now to you. When the world says never again, do they ever mean it?" Tapper asked.

Zelensky responded, "I don't believe the world. After we have seen what's going on in Ukraine, we've — I mean that I don't believe to this feeling that we should believe to the — to the — some countries or some leaders. We don't believe the words. After the escalation of Russia, we don't believe our neighbors. We don't believe all of this."

The Ukrainian president went on to say that he doesn't even believe in documented security assurances and international law as the war in Ukraine rages, and with Russia accused of alleged war crimes.

"Even I don't believe documents, because we also have a Budapest Memorandum — I think you know all of the details of this. For me, that is just a piece of paper and costs nothing," Zelensky said

Zelensky told CNN that his faith and his belief lies with practical, tangible efforts and the Ukrainian people.

[...]

I agree with Zelensky. Never again ... sigh. Talk is only talk and this current war is proving it was all just talk.
 
  • #575

Wow. Clearly there is no storm at sea, and obviously there are the other ships we see pictured there which are not sinking, so Putin is going to have to come up with a different scenario to tell his people.

I guess the Russians will never see these pictures, but there is only so long Russia can stall some kind of narrative to explain why those sailors aren't coming home.

It's hard to watch young people dying, so I have to remind myself of what they were doing with that warship and all the hell it brought to Ukraine.

The other day I went on the website for the Ukrainian postal service to try to purchase those awesome Ukrainian stamps with the "f*** you, Russian warship" depiction, but I couldn't get through on the site at all.

Moo
 
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  • #576
‘We need answers’: relatives seek Moskva warship’s missing crew

For days after the Moskva cruiser sank in the Black Sea, Yulia Tsyvova had been desperately searching for information about her son Andrei.

Like hundreds of other Russian families of the crew members, she had not been told whether he had survived the reported Ukrainian missile attack that had sunk the Russian flagship of the Black Sea fleet.

Then on Monday morning she received a call from the Russian defence ministry. Her son was dead.

“He was only 19, he was a conscript,” said Tsyvova, who wept as she spoke by telephone. “They didn’t tell me anything else, no information on when the funeral would be.

“I am sure he isn’t the only one who died.”

Family members of sailors who served onboard the Moskva are demanding answers as the ministry has sought to suppress information about what happened to the ship or its estimated 510-strong crew.

The total number of dead, wounded and missing remains a state secret. Tsyvov’s death, which has not been previously reported, is only the second confirmed from the warship. Another three families have gone public saying they cannot find their sons who were serving onboard.

Media reports suggest the number of casualties from the attack will be far higher, and the efforts to suppress information about the deaths have raised comparisons with the Kursk submarine incident that left 118 sailors dead and struck a blow to the prestige of a young President Vladimir Putin in 2000.

(...)

New information on the young sailors who died will also renew scrutiny about the Russian government’s use of conscripts in battle, something Putin had explicitly denied was the case early in the war.

(...)

But several parents of Moskva crew members have told the Guardian and others that their sons onboard the ship were indeed conscripts and not professional soldiers on contract.

“A conscript who isn’t supposed to see active fighting is among those missing in action,” wrote Dmitry Shkrebets, whose son Yegor was a cook on the ship and is listed as missing in action. “Guys, how can you be missing in action in the middle of the high seas?!!!”

(...)

Families of several crew members have said they managed to locate their family members alive.

Eskender Djeparov said he recognised his brother Akbar in a video released by the defence ministry that showed sailors from the Moskva meeting a top admiral in Sevastopol after the ship sank.

“We were very happy when we saw him in the video of the crew in Sevastopol,” Djeparov said. “The day after the tragedy, he called our mother and said that he is alive and well. That she shouldn’t worry about him. He hasn’t told us what happened, he doesn’t say much. He calls us from different numbers. He is a conscript, he started last July. He definitely never signed a contract.”

A family member of crew member Evgeny Grinberg said via online messenger that “his condition is fine and I do not intend to divulge military secrets”.

“It’s fraught with consequences,” wrote Valery Grinburg of Monchegorsk, near Murmansk. “And Evgeny did not say anything anyway.”

Asked if he was onboard the ship, he wrote “yes” and then deleted the message. Asked how he knew about his relative’s condition, he wrote: “I called into the ministry of defence.”

But many others have been less lucky. Shkrebets was one of the first to go public demanding answers about why his son was sent to war. “They said that the entire crew was evacuated. It’s a lie! A cruel and cynical lie!”

His wife, Irina, told the independent Russian website the Insider that they had seen about 200 injured sailors at a military hospital in Crimea while looking for their son. The total crew of the Moskva was estimated at just over 500.

“We looked at every burnt kid,” she told the Insider. “I can’t tell you how hard it was, but I couldn’t find mine. There were only 200 people, and there were more than 500 onboard the cruiser. Where were the others? We looked in Krasnodar, and everywhere else, we called every place, but we couldn’t find him.”

(...)

“We were contacted by three families from Yalta, Alupka and St Petersburg, whose children are also missing, also conscripts,” her husband wrote on Monday, adding they had submitted a written request for more information at the local enlistment office.

“We need written answers to our questions about finding our children, not text messages with pictures and prayers,” he said.

Other parents were clearly more fearful of speaking out. Ulyana Tarasova of St Petersburg wrote online: “My son, Tarasov Mark, is missing in action aboard the cruiser Moskva.”

Hours later, her post was gone.

Others who spoke with Russian media have asked for anonymity for fear of facing reprisals from the government.

The mother of another sailor told the Novaya Gazeta Europe website that three missiles had struck the Moskva. She said about 40 people had died, several were missing, and “there are many wounded”.
 
  • #577
A little happy something ..
April 18, 2022
Dog has puppy on journey from Ukraine to Windsor | CTV News
image.jpeg

''The post said soon after the war began, their family decided they had to flee take Puppy, Munchie’s mama dog, with them.

“She had been their friend for five years, and they wouldn’t think of leaving her behind,” said the humane society.

Puppy went into labour as they were headed for Poland and gave birth to Munchie on the side of the road.

Their family got on another bus and continued their journey to Switzerland. Puppy started experiencing discharge and an emergency veterinarian in Switzerland was able to see them. The vet determined that Puppy had developed a life-threatening infection from delivering Munchie on the cold roadside.

The vet provided the care they needed at no charge, and soon Puppy and Munchie were ready to make the flight to Canada.

“Today, everyone is safe in Windsor, and starting their new life together. They wanted to share their story to remind everyone that pets get scared and stressed too, and no matter what you’re going through, pets are family and should never be left behind,” said the humane society.

Humane society staff members say they were touched by their ordeal and wanted to help, so they will be providing wellness care for Puppy and Munchie for their family until they get settled.''
 
  • #578
Sadly, this is nothing new. Research shows that historically, Protestant and Catholic churches on both sides have supported their nation’s wars, with few exceptions.

https://wapo.st/3MbBxTU

Russian Orthodox leader backs war in Ukraine, divides faith


He leads his flock from a soaring, gilded cathedral built to celebrate Russia’s victory over Napoleon, where week after week the powerful head of the Russian Orthodox Church is working to ensure that the faithful are all in on their country’s invasion of Ukraine.

Whether warning about the “external enemies” attempting to divide the “united people” of Russia and Ukraine, or very publicly blessing the generals leading soldiers in the field, Patriarch Kirill has become one of the war’s most prominent backers. His sermons echo, and in some cases even supply, the rhetoric that President Vladimir Putin has used to justify the assault on cities and civilians.
 
  • #579
I agree, but only one of them invaded the other (the dictatorship invaded the democratic sovereign nation) ... it seems to me that Ukrainians are indeed calling their shots. They don't wish to live under the dictatorship that is Putin's Russia.

I actually think they've made that very clear, so the rest of us really have zero say on the matter.

But per TOS we ARE allowed to state our opinions. And I always clearly state JMO.
 
  • #580
‘We need answers’: relatives seek Moskva warship’s missing crew

For days after the Moskva cruiser sank in the Black Sea, Yulia Tsyvova had been desperately searching for information about her son Andrei.

Like hundreds of other Russian families of the crew members, she had not been told whether he had survived the reported Ukrainian missile attack that had sunk the Russian flagship of the Black Sea fleet.

Then on Monday morning she received a call from the Russian defence ministry. Her son was dead.

“He was only 19, he was a conscript,” said Tsyvova, who wept as she spoke by telephone. “They didn’t tell me anything else, no information on when the funeral would be.

“I am sure he isn’t the only one who died.”

Family members of sailors who served onboard the Moskva are demanding answers as the ministry has sought to suppress information about what happened to the ship or its estimated 510-strong crew.

The total number of dead, wounded and missing remains a state secret. Tsyvov’s death, which has not been previously reported, is only the second confirmed from the warship. Another three families have gone public saying they cannot find their sons who were serving onboard.

Media reports suggest the number of casualties from the attack will be far higher, and the efforts to suppress information about the deaths have raised comparisons with the Kursk submarine incident that left 118 sailors dead and struck a blow to the prestige of a young President Vladimir Putin in 2000.

(...)

New information on the young sailors who died will also renew scrutiny about the Russian government’s use of conscripts in battle, something Putin had explicitly denied was the case early in the war.

(...)

But several parents of Moskva crew members have told the Guardian and others that their sons onboard the ship were indeed conscripts and not professional soldiers on contract.

“A conscript who isn’t supposed to see active fighting is among those missing in action,” wrote Dmitry Shkrebets, whose son Yegor was a cook on the ship and is listed as missing in action. “Guys, how can you be missing in action in the middle of the high seas?!!!”

(...)

Families of several crew members have said they managed to locate their family members alive.

Eskender Djeparov said he recognised his brother Akbar in a video released by the defence ministry that showed sailors from the Moskva meeting a top admiral in Sevastopol after the ship sank.

“We were very happy when we saw him in the video of the crew in Sevastopol,” Djeparov said. “The day after the tragedy, he called our mother and said that he is alive and well. That she shouldn’t worry about him. He hasn’t told us what happened, he doesn’t say much. He calls us from different numbers. He is a conscript, he started last July. He definitely never signed a contract.”

A family member of crew member Evgeny Grinberg said via online messenger that “his condition is fine and I do not intend to divulge military secrets”.

“It’s fraught with consequences,” wrote Valery Grinburg of Monchegorsk, near Murmansk. “And Evgeny did not say anything anyway.”

Asked if he was onboard the ship, he wrote “yes” and then deleted the message. Asked how he knew about his relative’s condition, he wrote: “I called into the ministry of defence.”

But many others have been less lucky. Shkrebets was one of the first to go public demanding answers about why his son was sent to war. “They said that the entire crew was evacuated. It’s a lie! A cruel and cynical lie!”

His wife, Irina, told the independent Russian website the Insider that they had seen about 200 injured sailors at a military hospital in Crimea while looking for their son. The total crew of the Moskva was estimated at just over 500.

“We looked at every burnt kid,” she told the Insider. “I can’t tell you how hard it was, but I couldn’t find mine. There were only 200 people, and there were more than 500 onboard the cruiser. Where were the others? We looked in Krasnodar, and everywhere else, we called every place, but we couldn’t find him.”

(...)

“We were contacted by three families from Yalta, Alupka and St Petersburg, whose children are also missing, also conscripts,” her husband wrote on Monday, adding they had submitted a written request for more information at the local enlistment office.

“We need written answers to our questions about finding our children, not text messages with pictures and prayers,” he said.

Other parents were clearly more fearful of speaking out. Ulyana Tarasova of St Petersburg wrote online: “My son, Tarasov Mark, is missing in action aboard the cruiser Moskva.”

Hours later, her post was gone.

Others who spoke with Russian media have asked for anonymity for fear of facing reprisals from the government.

The mother of another sailor told the Novaya Gazeta Europe website that three missiles had struck the Moskva. She said about 40 people had died, several were missing, and “there are many wounded”.

Oh fellow sleuths..I'm deeply hurt....these are peoples sons....and remember conscripts wouldn't send into this war....but it happened..so much lies....
 
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