Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022

[Amonet]

Is there anyway that someone can translate these 5 points that China have made into an easier way to understand what exactly it is that they are saying because unless I am just tired and my eyes aren’t working and my tired brain has slowed , it seems on the one hand that they support Russia but on the other are stating that peaceful negotiation is the way to move forward.
Please- anyone? I’m a tad confused

I think you need to be an expert in diplomatic speak to really understand it, and I am not.

1. China "firmly advocates" abiding by the UN Charter and respecting the territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine.
   
   
2. The security of one country cannot be strengthened at the expense of another, and Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.
   
   
3. China believes "all parties" should exercise restraint and protect civilian life and property to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis.
   
   
4. China supports "direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible," and believes Ukraine "should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation."
   
   
5. The UN Security Council should be used to "facilitate a diplomatic solution and "cool tensions rather than fuel them." China has always opposed UN resolutions that invoke Chapter VII of the UN Charter, which authorizes military and non-military steps to "restore international peace and security."

1. They don't sound very supportive of the war on Ukraine.
2. The Nato expansion around Russia concerns them. This could be related to US expansion in the South China Seas?
3. Seems to speak for itself.
4. This seems to correlate to the railroad passage from China, through Ukraine an to the West. I think they'd rather focus on peaceful trade than on war. War isn't good for general trade in goods from China to the West, which is China's income.
5. Hard to translate, but here China is being China...I honestly think that outside their own sphere of influence they prefer peaceful trade over war. However, they are also highly aware of some similarities between their sphere of influence and the way Russia sees its sphere of influence over the former Soviet Republics. They don't want to be called out by the UN for doing things that might be considered equivalent to things Russia does in its own sphere of influence. This could be things like Tibet, Taiwan, South China Seas, and the how do you spell 'Uigur' issues, which could in some ways be conflated to how Russia sees its Muslim populations in some of the former Soviet Republics like Chechnya.

They want to be allied to Russia, they don't want to come down hard on Russia. But they don't seem supportive of the invasion of Ukraine. I think they also have areas that border Russia, and they wouldn't want these conflicts in the nations that border them, so they can't be too supportive, yet they can't be too critical. That seems to be the line they are trying to walk.

 

[Kiranerys]

Hello! Never been to the UK...I know..it sounds silly....Should have gone ages ago. My brother in law is from the UK, living in the Netherlands now.

I've never been to the Netherlands either!. My husband's cousin and aunt and uncle moved there before I even met him (that's been 28 years but I'm not sure when they moved). His cousin's wife is Ukrainian.

 

[Bit of hope]

I think you need to be an expert in diplomatic speak to really understand it, and I am not.

1. China "firmly advocates" abiding by the UN Charter and respecting the territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine.
   
   
2. The security of one country cannot be strengthened at the expense of another, and Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.
   
   
3. China believes "all parties" should exercise restraint and protect civilian life and property to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis.
   
   
4. China supports "direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible," and believes Ukraine "should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation."
   
   
5. The UN Security Council should be used to "facilitate a diplomatic solution and "cool tensions rather than fuel them." China has always opposed UN resolutions that invoke Chapter VII of the UN Charter, which authorizes military and non-military steps to "restore international peace and security."

1. They don't sound very supportive of the war on Ukraine.
2. The Nato expansion around Russia concerns them. This could be related to US expansion in the South China Seas?
3. Seems to speak for itself.
4. This seems to correlate to the railroad passage from China, through Ukraine an to the West. I think they'd rather focus on peaceful trade than on war. War isn't good for general trade in goods from China to the West, which is China's income.
5. Hard to translate, but here China is being China...I honestly think that outside their own sphere of influence they prefer peaceful trade over war. However, they are also highly aware of some similarities between their sphere of influence and the way Russia sees its sphere of influence over the former Soviet Republics. They don't want to be called out by the UN for doing things that might be considered equivalent to things Russia does in its own sphere of influence. This could be things like Tibet, Taiwan, South China Seas, and the how do you spell 'Uigur' issues, which could in some ways be conflated to how Russia sees its Muslim populations in some of the former Soviet Republics like Chechnya.

They want to be allied to Russia, they don't want to come down hard on Russia. But they don't seem supportive of the invasion of Ukraine. I think they also have areas that border Russia, and they wouldn't want these conflicts in the nations that border them, so they can't be too supportive, yet they can't be too critical. That seems to be the line they are trying to walk.

Thank you for this "translation". The way I see it China is a master in diplomacy.....this is diplomacy pur sang. It's not black, it's not white...no left or right....totally grey...and in the middle.....for me that means it can go everywhere from now....and of course they are going to do where they have to gain. again....scary....

 

[Amonet]

I was JUST coming here to post a very harsh opinion basically saying the same thing.

I was just going to say I don’t believe a darn thing the Chinese government says. IMO, it’s quite likely they don’t want the west to succeed. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

They need the West's purchasing power. The way things are seems to suit them. Thanks to the way things have been moving in the past 20+ years they are building up China as a superpower. They don't need economic crises in the West that impacts on us buying Chinese-made goods.

I see them as being the way Russia should be...living with us and looking for mutual benefit, but not being quite like us. China doesn't want to be ruled by the West any more than Russia does, and the West doesn't want to be ruled by either Russia or China (or their ways of doing things). If you an work out a mutually beneficial detente, instead of just a detente between wars, that seems to be the path that China chooses with almost all nations on Earth, even some of the nastiest ones. But they also want their own way with certain things, like Taiwan and the South China Seas. I see China as a pain in the butt more than a massive threat to us, and they're also very useful as they have helped keep inflationary pressures down in the West by using their cheap labour and industrial processes to send us cheap items that would cost so much more if we were making them in our countries and which would mean our inflation would be harder for our central banks to control. My views on this probably don't match to many other people's views though!

 

[Simply Southern]

JMOO -- the last thing we need is for foreign nations to get involved and risk escalating this regional war into a third world war.

MOO

They are already involved, for months. NATO is involved. There is no way Ukraine had the resources to sustain Russian troops for 3 days without a whole lotta help from friends and neighbors. US has been shipping weaponry/training for months to Ukraine, based on intelligence/surveillance.

Ukraine is a wealth of natural resources. Should Russia gain control of these resources, Putin gains more control and WE ALL becomes "hostage" to Putin.

No all is fair in love and war. We must prevent a dictatorship from controling a vast majority natural resources (gas/oil) AMOO...

Russia Is A Major Supplier Of Oil To The U.S.
Feb 21, 2022,05:47pm EST|103,642 views
Russia Is A Major Supplier Of Oil To the US
...
Russia is one of the world’s largest oil producers. According to the 2021 BP Statistical Review of World Energy, in 2020 Russia produced 10.1 million barrels per day (BPD) of crude oil and natural gas condensate. That was good for second place behind the U.S. at 11.3 million BPD. Saudi Arabia was third at 9.3 million BPD.


However, the U.S. also consumes far more oil (17.2 million BPD) than Russia (3.2 million BPD) or Saudi Arabia (3.5 million BPD). The net result is that the U.S. is a net importer of crude oil, while Russia and Saudi Arabia are major crude oil exporters.

This also means that the U.S. economy is more vulnerable to oil price shocks, while higher oil prices are a net benefit to Russia and Saudi Arabia. Various talking heads have suggested that there will be a $5-$20 premium on oil prices if Russia invades Ukraine.

 

[branmuffin]

It feels wrong and I understand. I have the same kind of emotions, but with military help from NATO within the Ukraine there will be a WWIII, with most likely repercussions from Russia, probably in the form of nuclear weapons on Europe and also the US will get involved. I think there is no soul here who wants that. It's a very dangerous situation, but also a very complicated situation, because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, scared off by Putin in the first place, like he does to Sweden and Finland as off today. If it was we would be already in a war all together. So countries have to "work around that" and provide help in other ways, how painful it may feel. Were we all sleeping? Did we miss signs...remember Putin has lost his mind. Nobody thought he would really do this. Will the help be enough....on time? I don't know. I'm hoping wholeheartedly Ukraine will stand.

I agree. The US and Russia have been fighting proxy wars for the last 70 years; Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. The minute there are American boots on the ground fighting Russian soldiers it's all over, imo.

As an aside, as much as I feel for the Ukrainian people who are in a state of disbelief, at least they have an opportunity to escape. The animals in Kyiv zoo have no such opportunity. It would be a mercy to euthanize them.

 

[sds71]

Russian soldiers from all across the country were deceived into heading to the Ukrainian border, and some were beaten if they resisted, according to the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers, a Russian non-governmental organization that works to expose human rights violations within the military.

The group is reportedly preparing a complaint for the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office alleging that their sons only recently joined the military as conscripts and were told they were going to the border with Ukraine for drills. But their statuses were then abruptly changed to contract soldiers— a role for those with more combat and training experience—and they were suddenly thrust into war.
Russia Used Beatings and Tricks to Forcibly Send Rookie Troops to Ukraine, Rights Group Says

 

[Mo Thuairim]

The latest: Russian forces focus on key cities

How much of Ukraine does Russia control?

View attachment 334816

It is the third day of fighting in Ukraine, with Russian forces attempting to take territory and major cities and Ukrainian forces resisting their advance.

Here's the latest:

• In the capital Kyiv, there were missile strikes and gun battles overnight but Ukrainians forces remain in control of the city
• The UK's defence ministry says Vladimir Putin's forces remain more than 30km (19 miles) away from Kyiv city centre
• Russian forces may now be regrouping after an initial failed attempt at infiltrating key government districts in Kyiv, Jack Watling, a military expert from the Rusi think-tank, tells the BBC
• In the eastern city of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second city, officials say troops have fought off a Russian attack. They've issued a shelling alert, warning citizens not to move around the city
• There have also been clashes near the southern city of Odesa, President Zelensky says
• Russia says it has captured the south-eastern city of Melitopol - but the UK has cast doubt on the claim
• Zelensky said western and central cities including Lviv had been targeted with missile strikes

Ukraine live updates: We are resisting, Ukraine says, as battles for key cities rage - BBC News

 

[sunshineray]

I would like to know where everybody is from....just to understand and seeing posts in perspective.

I was born and raised in the Netherlands....still there....in case somebody might have missed that.

Connecticut, USA

 

[Bit of hope]

Connecticut, USA

Hi there!! Nice to meet you!

 

[Bit of hope]

Russian soldiers from all across the country were deceived into heading to the Ukrainian border, and some were beaten if they resisted, according to the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers, a Russian non-governmental organization that works to expose human rights violations within the military.

The group is reportedly preparing a complaint for the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office alleging that their sons only recently joined the military as conscripts and were told they were going to the border with Ukraine for drills. But their statuses were then abruptly changed to contract soldiers— a role for those with more combat and training experience—and they were suddenly thrust into war.
Russia Used Beatings and Tricks to Forcibly Send Rookie Troops to Ukraine, Rights Group Says

It's all happening again...the last German "soldiers" send into war were "babies"...so very young....In Austria f.i. graveyards are full of young boys killed during the last period of WWII

 

[Simply Southern]

These companies have the most to lose from Russia's attack on Ukraine - CNN
USA Companies
ExxonMobil
The American oil giant has more than 1,000 employees in Russia, and has been in the country for over 25 years.
Its subsidiary, Exxon Neftegas Limited (ENL), has a 30% stake in Sakhalin-1 — a vast oil and natural gas project located off Sakhalin Island in the Russian Far East. It has operated the project since 1995 on behalf of a consortium that includes Japanese and Indian partners, as well as two affiliates of Russia's largest oil company, Rosneft.
McDonald's
The burger chain has categorized Russia as a high-growth market and continued to open locations there throughout the last decade.
Mondelez
The Oreo maker and owner of Cadbury became the leading chocolate maker in Russia in 2018.

 

[scandinavian girl]

Russia Banned From European Song Contest 2022

Russia Banned From Eurovision 2022 After Ukraine Invasion

PS, I am from Sweden.

 

[branmuffin]

I was thinking Foreign Legion too. I think they are anonymous so we wouldn't know if they were there or not.
And the rest of the people wanting to go fight with Ukraine are probably keeping quiet about it also. jmo.

I know some Canadians, not necessarily soldiers, went to fight with the Pashmerga. It's been done before. There is no law to prevent a civilian from fighting in another country as long as they don't commit war crimes.

 

[Bit of hope]

Russia Banned From European Song Contest 2022

Russia Banned From Eurovision 2022 After Ukraine Invasion

PS, I am from Sweden.

Hi Sweden!

 

[branmuffin]

I would like to know where everybody is from....just to understand and seeing posts in perspective.

I was born and raised in the Netherlands....still there....in case somebody might have missed that.

Born in England, moved to Canada as a child.

 

[Bit of hope]

Born in England, moved to Canada as a child.

You know the Duchies have a special bond with Canada....that will last forever.

 

[branmuffin]

You know the Duchies have a special bond with Canada....that will last forever.

My sister is married to a Duchy. My youngest nephew, when he was a toddler, used to get really upset when his dad would speak Dutch to him!

 

[Bit of hope]

My sister is married to a Duchy. My youngest nephew, when he was a toddler, used to get really upset when his dad would speak Dutch to him!

I'm always kind of sad...our children not raised to be bilingual...Looking back I would have loved my son speaking Frisian (my mother tongue) ....not going to happen. But...he speaks English very well.

 

[Fika]

I'm always kind of sad...our children not raised to be bilingual...Looking back I would have loved my son speaking Frisian (my mother tongue) ....not going to happen. But...he speaks English very well.

Fellow Dutch here ! Born and raised in Utrecht till I was 15 then we moved to Germany. Now for many years living in Sweden. My parents moved back to Amsterdam.
https://live.aftonbladet.se/supernytt/news/rusning-efter-jodtabletter-efter-rysk-attack.7tkcV-ew_