Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai, Egypt Prime Minister says, 31 OCT 2015

[Momoffourboys]

I don't belive them, but...


Egyptian air traffic control said it lost contact with the civilian airliner shortly after it took off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh en route to Russia. Egyptian authorities said the wreckage was found in an area where Egyptian forces are fighting an Islamic militant insurgency.

The Islamic State group claimed that its local affiliate in the Sinai had succeeded in downing the aircraft, according to supporters on Twitter and the Aamaq website, which acts as a semi official news agency for Islamic State. According to the report, the organization said it did so in revenge for Russian airstrikes in Syria.

"Russians and everyone who is with you in the alliance: Know that you have no safety on Muslim soil or in Muslim airspace," read a statement attributed to ISIS. "The daily murdering of dozens in Syria by your airstrikes will bring disaster on you. Just as you kill, so you will be killed, God willing."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4718746,00.html

 

[Cardinal47]

Wow..just Wow

 

[mrsward]

I was in sharm in February...my heart goes out to each and everyone of them ,

 

[mrsward]

My view from the plane of the desert .

 

[CARIIS]

No survivors.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Blue!!!

 

[CARIIS]

It's terrible when I read the plane had been completely destroyed and went down vertically I didn't think there was any hope. I hope the passengers were spared the knowledge the plane was in jeopardy for as long as possible. The crew must have gone through hell desperately trying to save everyone it's horrifying to think about.

Caution....................... some may not want to know , but we are adults ..............

I have read a lot of NTSB accident reports - ande they go into itensive (It like a surovability part of the reports) ......... those details about what passengers go through. It is beyond wild. Seats come of their tracking .they are smushed upon each other, their necks crack off from g fprces, their skin does weird stuff, they cant breathe , defecate and urinate on selves, seats buckle and chop off their feet, the noises are numbing, tv and hollywood give us a a "nice" notion of what it is . They are seeing other passengers be decapated, oxygen masks are dangling about ,bodies cut in half flying loose from the seatbelts.

Unless it is like a sudden into the face of a mountain controoled flight into terrain) sadly they know:


Were adults but I shall stop.

A controlled flight into terrain (CFIT, usually pronounced "see-fit") is an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, a body of water or an obstacle.

goggle




The other myth Hollywood and media portray , on the other hand , is a plane crash is not survivable, when the reality is (above is about vertical or inverted flight) most actually are beleive it or not.

Its all about the mighty buck and weight sadly......

The importance of examining occupant survivability in aviation accidents is twofold: (1) it can help to dispel a public perception that most air carrier accidents are not survivable, and (2) it can identify things that can be done to increase survivability in the accidents that do occur.

It is a study by a govt agency, not "copyrighted " stuff -taxpayer money -- so ten percent is not applicable :

1. 1983 through 2000, 51,207 occupants (95.7 percent) survived whereas 2,280 occupants died.
2. In 528 (93.0 percent) of the 568 accidents involving Part 121 operations from 1983 to 2000, more than 80 percent of the occupants survived.
3. In serious Part 121 accidents (those involving fire, serious injury, and either substantial aircraft damage or complete destruction), there were 2,739 occupants; 1,524 (55.6 percent) of those occupants survived.
4. In 12 (46.2 percent) of the 26 serious Part 121 accidents from 1983 through 2000, more than 80 percent of the occupants survived.
5. In serious Part 121 accidents from 1983 through 2000, there were nearly five times more impact fatalities than fire-related fatalities.
6. In serious Part 121 accidents from 1983 through 2000 that were categorized as survivable, 1,523 of the 1,988 occupants (76.6 percent) survived.
7. In serious Part 121 accidents from 1983 through 2000 that were categorized as survivable, over twice as many occupants died as a result of impact forces than as a result of fire.
8. In 12 (63.2 percent) of the 19 serious Part 121 accidents from 1983 through 2000 that were categorized as survivable, more than 80 percent of the occupants survived.
9. Public perception of survivability may be substantially lower than the actual rate of 95.7 percent for all Part 121 accidents.

Part 121 is referring to large commericial scheduled ( the big boys) aircraft rules and regs carriers must do o remain in the air . n Then it goes 135 which was like spinoffs Conairr Delta United Express etc

In recent years 135 has otten much tighter (took years) . but a plane is aplane is a plane !!


https://www.google.com/search?q=CFI...5.2088j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pag...21_U.S._Air_Carrier_Operations_1983-2000.aspx

 

[CARIIS]

One of the articles linked above stares technical problem caused the crash. How can they know this already, unless the pilot reported a problem before the crash. Same article indicates a militant group has claimed to have caused the crash.

I have seen reports like that also - it certainly is not in a nice place in the world is it? And opss only speculation but as I got caught up I could not help but think Russia has just, recently begain tossing about sh$t that kills people in the war we have been losing for years

just a french fry for thought...................

and Russia , 6 hours in,is claiming not shot down-- they are nowhere near as good as NTSB, AAIA or BEA (british/France) folks .

Russia lied about the Korean air (flight number 007-- tha always freaked me out) from the day it happened I remember being livid.

Russia lied for like a decade (kept the black boxes in this safe) and all kinds of jurdisction stuff played out- everyone fighting over the right to search for the boxes , in the middle of the ocean.

You wanna spy thriller wow - after reading several books , I came to the conclusion that the 747 with inicent people on board was indeed on a spy mission.

They " accidently" flew over several of Russias most secret

military bases, lighting em up (test to see response time capablity) and boy did things light up

some books (amazing reading ) :

Oberg, KAL 007: The Real Story

Shootdown, R.W. Johnson, Viking, New York,

[h=1]he Target Is Destroyed: What Really Happened To Flight 007 And What America Knew About It [/h]
[h=1]Kal 007-The Cover Up[/h]

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6536914/1/#1

Jon Ostower also noted that the wing is upside down but doesn't want to speculate and say what he thinks happened, just that its "interesting"
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/with_replies

MAL 019 anyone?

 

[CARIIS]

Would a break up at 31,000 ft result in a rapid loss of consciousness?

Yes, anything above 10,000 feet !

 

[CARIIS]

When you reach cruising altitude, how soon does the signal to unfasten your seat belts come on? Do most passengers unfasten them or leave them fastened?

I think would vary - what did the flight plan antcipate aloft, what were pilots on the route reporting, what was onboard radar indication.

 

[restarea]

The body of a toddler that was on board was found 8km away from the wreckage. The search has expanded to a 15km radius.



http://m.ria.ru/world/20151101/1311751608.html

 

[CARIIS]

If you just remove the http:// in your post that will fix the video coming up. :seeya:
(Websleuths will add the http:// back in, but the video still won't come up, try it.)

www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html

oDDLY ENOUGH

o/t I was just installing an ad blocker amazing it works ! and there was an option that went like filter HTTP bla bla..................tried to look up what it meant , did not make much sense , in real life terms what are they talking about anyone know

 

[CARIIS]

hummm...............Egyption cival folks have claimed everything in terms of dialog back and forth were "normal".......

But..

It was the Russian embassy in Cairo are the ones that claimed pilot was indicating troubles

most interesting my dear Watson!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-crash-investigators-seek-cause-of-a321-crash some good on the ground video here as well

also French and German accident folks inroute so that good I think

Never heard this angle:

Crew members of the crashed airliner raised the issue of possible engine faults several times to airport technicians in Sharm el-Sheikh, a source at the airport has alleged in an interview with Russian news agency RIA Novosti.
“This aircraft appealed to the technical service in connection with engine start failure several times over the past week before this happened,” the source said.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...pts-sinai-live#block-5634ab16e4b025d517f03cb1


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...far-about-metrojet-flight-9268-a6716336.html#

Interesting graphic
http://aviation-safety.net/graphics/infographics/20worst.jpg


​

 

[CARIIS]

got a bit off track when I learned about tail strike !

1140 of A320 series flying now -
2590 ordered

Every manufactor does this . They build the first one. Then the model gets extended, and improvments , the again etc. Airbus used like A319, then A320 the A321. So the one that crashed was further along in series...

A visual - the family if you will!

When it is a totally new plane design then it changes totally Airbus bigger different A340, a the biggest lady in the A380.

Boeing does same thing- different model numbering system. It goes 777, 777-100 then 777-200 etc. They then , for a totally new airplane 787 (dreamliner) etc

Got sidetracked (sorry) cause I did reaslize till now it was 321 series. I thought A320!

The aircraft that crashed into the desert in Sinai suffered 'sustained damage' during an incident 14 years ago," The Sunday Times reported. he Airbus A321 had a so-called "tail strike" as it attempted to land at Cairo airport in Egypt in November 2001. The incident took place when the airliner was operated by Middle East Airlines.

This is a huge devopment ! The exact same thing happened , resulting in, the second worst aviation disaster in world history- 520 died, when JAL-123 tail fell off, 12 minutes after takeoff) as a result of tail strike that was not fixed correctly 7 YEARS earlier. Or to put it another way it is the biggest crash ever involving only one aircraft. The worst ever was a collision mid air.

visuals:

Here is pic of JAL after her tail fell off cause of faulty repair

For 32 minutes the passengers were in "dutch roll" -32 minutes of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBY2dCnjr7c

hard to grasp huh- in a depressuized jumbo jet ugh

Here is the result:

Wanna talk some amazing flying skills-- those guys kept , what was then the biggest jet ever -747- flying 32 minutes after they lost their "steering" wheel. As a result of outcome- I have always felt it would have been better for 520 souls on board if she went down instanstantly

Ok back on track- the plane :

It is a single aisle aircraft. 3 of this specific model have been in accidents that totally destroyed the craft. There have been 17 incidents. The model has been hijacked five times.

The Airbus A321, part of the A320 series, is a modern airliner and is regarded as having a good safety record..An A320 (the series)takes off or lands every 2.5 seconds somewhere in the world. twin-engined jet is a "workhorse" of global aviation, used for short to medium-range flights.

This accident was the worst for the series- Airblue came in next when they lost one of theirs with a 152 dead.
Total fatalties for series 376.
1997-05-09 (18 years 6 months) First flew--

[TD="class: caption"][/TD]
[TD="class: desc"][/TD]

[TD="class: caption"] :


[/TD]
[TD="class: desc"] Total airframe hours :56000 (total time in the wide blue yonder!).

Total cycles 21000. .-one cycle is a takeoff and landing. This matters casue of pressurizing and depressuring each cycle, as it relates to age of aircraft ). [/TD]

[TD="class: caption"][/TD]
[TD="class: desc"][/TD]

. has been operated by Kogalymavia, the company also known as Metrojet, for the past four years.

Previously it flew for Libyan company Middle East Airlines, Turkish company Onur Air, Saudi Arabian Airlines and Syrian company Cham Wings Airlines. Sounding less like a shootdown?! Not an impressive list of Air Safety winners!

Cham owns a jet while bolding not me: Saudi Arabian Airlines also has the dubious honour of featuring in two of the top 10 most deadly air disasters

Kogalymavia began as a small regional airline in Russia in 1993, but now its 10 planes mainly fly to Egypt.

Its planes have been involved in accidents before, including a Tu-154 (Russian built) that caught fire on the runway in Surgut, killing three and injuring 43.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...pts-sinai-live#block-5634ab16e4b025d517f03cb1
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Wings_Airlines
http://travel.ninemsn.com.au/holidaytype/weird/7939387/airlines-with-the-worst-safety-records
http://aviation-safety.net/airlinesafety/
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20151031-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20100728-0
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/509496/doomed-russian-jet-suffered-tail.html
Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123#Cause
https://www.google.com/search?q=jal...h9HvyAIVjMImCh3oyAz8#tbm=isch&q=jal+123+crash

 

[CARIIS]

The airline suspended all operation following the crash of flight 7K9268 on 31 October 2015.

main hub being Domodedovo International Airport in Moscow

Operations started in May 1993 as Kogalymavia;

since 2005 the airline flies mostly international charter services to leisure destinations.
In 2012, Kogalymavia changed its marketing branding from Kolavia to Metrojet

[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] Till August 2014, Metrojet operated on behalf of the TUI Travel Group[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] and flies independently since.

Aircraft	Total	Orders	Notes
Airbus A321-200	operated asMetrojet
Bombardier Challenger 850	operated for VIP-charters
Total	6	20

Kogalymavia fleet
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]—[/TD]

.
Previous accident

• 1 January 2011: Flight 348. A fire broke out on one of the engines of a Tupolev Tu-154B-2, tail number RA-85588, before taxiing. The aircraft had 116 passengers and 8 crew on board, and was due to operate a flight, a Surgut–Moscow service. It was evacuated seconds before the flames engulfed the fuselage. Three people were killed and 43 passengers injured.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP]

[SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrojet_(Russian_airline)
[/SUP]

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Horrific images show wreckage of doomed Russian jet that crashed killing all 224 on board as co-pilot's wife says he had concerns about plane's safety

Sergei Trukhachev spoke to his daughter minutes before taking off and expressed concerns about the jet's safety

His wife Natalya told Russian television he believed the 'technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired'

Egyptian aircraft engineers said they spent 35 minutes with the aircraft before it took off at 3.50am yesterday

They claimed the aircraft was 'good' when it left, yet it broke up in mid-air only 23 minutes later killing 224 people

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...jet-abort-three-months-ago.html#ixzz3qFfEwJ7Z

 

[CARIIS]

Some been posted before - pretty sure !

had requested a route change, although there was no indication whether a change had occurred. Interfaxreported that the aircraft requested an emergency landing at El Arish International Airport before disappearing.[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP][24][/SUP]

steep descent of 5,000 ft (1,500 m). It had disappeared in a mountainous area in central Sinai with poor weather conditions making it difficult for rescue crews to get to the scene

. The descent of 5,000 ft (1,500 m) occurred in one minute shortly before it disappeared 50 km (31 mi) north east of Nekhel.[SUP][25]6][/SUP]
Air Flow Traffic Management (CFMU) issued a notice to all operators along the route shortly after the aircraft's disappearance that because of technical problems all flights would be tactically re-routed, although the notice was withdrawn shortly thereafter.[SUP][5][/SUP]
[SUP][5][/SUP] Fifty ambulances were sent to the crash site[SUP][26][/SUP] near Housna, 300 kilometres (190 mi) from Sharm el-Sheikh.[SUP][27][/SUP]

most bodies were found strapped to their seats.


At least 100 bodies were initially found, including at least five children

Passengers and crew[edit]

212	7	219[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
4	0	4[SUP][30][/SUP]
1	0	1[SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][32][/SUP]

[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Nationality[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Passengers[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Crew[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Total[/TH]

[TD="align: left"]

Russia[/TD]

[TD="align: left"]

Ukraine[/TD]

[TD="align: left"]

Belarus[/TD]

[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Total[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]217[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]7[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]224[/TH]

Flight 9268 was carrying 224 passengers, [SUP]][/SUP] while a majority were also women.[SUP][35][/SUP]
According to the airline, the flight's captain had over 12,000 hours of flight time, including 3,800 hours of this aircraft type.[SUP][5][/SUP]


.....a case against Kogalymavia under legislation regulating "violation of rules of flights and preparations."[SUP][38][/SUP] Kogalymavia's employees were also questioned, along with those of the Brisco tour agency that had chartered the flight.

would be conducting tests on fuel samples taken from the aircraft at its last fuel uplift in the Russian city of Samara.[SUP][40][/SUP] Later that day, Russia's regional transport prosecutors determined that the quality of fuel on the crashed jet met required standards, a Russian news agency reported.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
The aviation accident investigation agencies BEA (France) and BFU (Germany) will also participate in the investigation .

Airbus is out of France and Hamberg Germany so they get to be part of investigation- thank god not only Russia ~!


The BEA will send two investigators, accompanied by six representatives from Airbus, to Egypt on 1 November.[SUP][41][/SUP] According to the BEA, they will join two investigators from the BFU and four investigators from the Interstate Aviation Committee, their Russian counterpart, representing the state of the aircraft's operator.[SUP][41]

[/SUP]
...........Natalya Trukhacheva, the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev, disclosed in an interview withNTV that her husband had complained about the aircraft's technical state. She related that their daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."[SUP][42][/SUP]


A shootdown?

hortly after the crash, Islamic State (IS) claimed responsibility for the incident. Experts[SUP][who?][/SUP] said Sinai Province does not have surface-to-air missiles capable of hitting an aircraft at high altitude, even though they could not exclude the possibility of a bomb on board the flight.[SUP][45][/SUP]
... They can put out whatever statements they want but there is no proof at this point that terrorists were responsible for this plane crash. [SUP]][/SUP] Similarly, Russian Transport Minister Maksim Sokolov summarily dismissed the claims as "fabrications" due to a lack of evidence from Egyptian civil aviation and security officials and Air Traffic data.[SUP][47][/SUP]
Lufthansa, Emirates, KLM and Air France announced they would avoid overflying the Sinai peninsula

The United States' Federal Aviation Administration had previously told carriers under its jurisdiction to operate aboveFL260 while flying over Sinai.

..... Luftfahrt-Bundesamt had told its airlines the same thing.[SUP][5][/SUP] Air Arabia and flyDubai also stopped their flights over the Sinai Peninsula

..........in response to the crash. British Airways also stopped their flights...., they later stated that they planned to continue flights over the Peninsula, although the intended alternative route was not announced........


easyJet stated that they would not halt their flights Those passengers who don't want to fly will be offered an alternative flight or a flight voucher.

Russian transport regulato.....had told Kogalymavia to stop flying A321 aircraft until the causes of the crash were known.

These report were contradicted as Kogalymavia representative as saying that the airline had not received the order f.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kogalymavia_Flight_9268

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-grounds-kogalymavia-airlines-airbus-6746164

 

[Isabelle]

Is it possible that this plane was taken down by ISIS because of Russia's actions in Syria? Would Russia downplay this possibility so that it appears they still have the upper hand? The same day of the crash is very early to make claims of what did and didn't cause this crash. Why would Lufthansa and Air France stop flying this route after the incident?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Is it possible that this plane was taken down by ISIS because of Russia's actions in Syria? Would Russia downplay this possibility so that it appears they still have the upper hand? The same day of the crash is very early to make claims of what did and didn't cause this crash. Why would Lufthansa and Air France stop flying this route after the incident?

That's what I have been wondering.

 

[restarea]

Officials are now confirming the obvious - the plane split into pieces mid-air


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/01/middleeast/egypt-sinai-russian-plane-crash/