Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai, Egypt Prime Minister says, 31 OCT 2015

[SophieRose]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-russia-test-plane-wreckage-explosives-35012799

Russian experts have brought plane wreckage samples to Moscow from Egypt to study for possible traces of explosives.

Russian news agencies on Friday quoted Emergency Situations Minister Vladimir Puchkov as saying that experts are sure to find a trace of explosives on the samples if it was a bomb that brought down the Metrojet flight on Saturday.

 

[CARIIS]

Can anyone imagine a plane crash without some"noise", OR and explosion??

It amazing me how News keeps doing this

 

[CARIIS]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-russia-test-plane-wreckage-explosives-35012799

Russian experts have brought plane wreckage samples to Moscow from Egypt to study for possible traces of explosives.

Russian news agencies on Friday quoted Emergency Situations Minister Vladimir Puchkov as saying that experts are sure to find a trace of explosives on the samples if it was a bomb that brought down the Metrojet flight on Saturday.

Yea, some news outlet did an inteligent angle to the tradegy

IMO in some way the media not foucsing on this is making "leaders" thinking they can just not talk about --it is the only thing that matters now

Its a rule in or out if out they need to start looking somewhere else ,

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.menafn.com/1094417916/Russian-plane-wreckage-to-be-moved-to-safe-place-in-Cairo

"The wreckage will be recovered to a safe and secure place in Cairo for further examination of each part" committee chief Ayman al-Mokadem said adding that the 47-member investigation team besides several other consultants are still in the process of information gathering.

The investigation panel said in the statement that the VCR in the black box was successfully downloaded and during the first listening "a noise was heard in the last second" which requires spectral analysis that will be carried out by specialized labs.

 

[CARIIS]

Nice post thanx!

snipped by me for space

In this case, investigations are in full gear by more than one country of which some countries might be resistant to help from other countries ie Egypt getting help from Israel, FBI; investigations need to go through all of the rubble (bombs can be small); figure out residue (are there types of bombs that produce little to no residue? How many different chemical compositions?); investigate passenger/pilot/crew manifest; investigate airport personnel; investigate who had access to the plane area; track down any terrorist group that may be responsible (terrorists could be from any area/conflict, Sinai, ISIS, Chechnya, Ukraine, etc). It's a really complicated and delicate situation, so I highly doubt anyone wants to jump to the conclusion that some terrorist group was able to get a bomb on board the plane. I doubt investigators will share what residue was used at this point, there are facts that might compromise investigations and safety of people. They need to get tourists out of the region and coordinate efforts of investigations and action.

For example, why would terrorist group take credit knowing that multiple large, powerful countries could squash them? For pride, or because they are planning other attacks and do not want investigators to know how able to take down plane? Assuming it was a bomb from some terrorist group, it could stem from local conflict, not international. For example, according to Wikipedia, 535 militants were killed in major operation Martyr's Right in September 2015, so it could be retaliation for local conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_insurgency. Edited to add- But Cariis, now that you mentioned British speaking terrorists, that just adds the international possibility to this. I hope they are screening all British pretty thoroughly so that some terrorist (if British residence/connection) doesn't get on plane to UK. But jmo/

 

[CARIIS]

Has ISIS ever claimed to take down a plane when they didn't do it?

That is actually a fair question!

 

[CARIIS]

I just saw this article

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...for-bringing-down-the-jet/ar-CC6pTi?li=AA59G3

hummm "soldiers on the ground"

​

 

[SophieRose]

The airliner was registered in the Republic of Ireland, and that's why they are part of the investigation. Plane had passed a safety review in April/May 2015 by the IAA. I wonder how long the investigators have to stay in Egypt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34697745

Two inspectors from the Republic of Ireland's Air Accident Investigation Unit and an expert from the IAA are expected to travel to Egypt on Monday to join the investigation into the cause of the crash.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/russian-plane-crash-jet-deemed-6750201

The Airbus A321 which came down on Saturday killing all 224 people on board, was registered in Ireland to Willmington Trust SP Services (Dublin) Ltd and was leased to Russian airline Kogalymavia, a spokesman for the Irish Aviation Authority said

 

[CARIIS]

With all this "attention" and focus on this being a bomb....even if it wasn't...expect a rise in terrorist activities on airplanes. JMO

and/or a completly knee jerk reaction like they did with liquids and that see you naked scanner

QUOTE=tarabull;12174275]The Latest: UK planes at Cyprus airports head to Egyptian resort to pick up stranded tourists
3 hours ago

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busine...ion+egypt+then+hear+putin/11500136/story.html[/QUOTE]

its strange they were saying that yesterday but I wnet to flight tracker and there was no activity nor any flights listed for departure,

I wonder if the airspace shows any activity now Russia claimed it was sending a bunch of planes yesterday and it was empty in the sky???

oh god how is this gonna paste!Horrible a no go delete

suffice it to say lets do the link Nothing going on bizairre?

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/HESH

Nothing really here

http://sharm-el-sheikh-airport.com/flight-status-d.htm

Here I see some activity nothig from Russia? Around 12

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByAirport.do

pulled out a bit around 17 100 mile radius

 

[CARIIS]

awesome drone video of one of the resorts over there

[video=youtube;wg9wPXu7V8o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg9wPXu7V8o[/video]

I sae pricing $95- $337 - there are booking happening now, I put in for arriving in three days and it tells you whenn last booked etc

http://www.booking.com/hotel/eg/the...521ce941dbd4e93629c6344cX1;type=total;ucfs=1&

 

[CARIIS]

I changed to this font it makes it smaller!

"Plane had passed a safety review in April/May 2015".
I am running with notion that America is tougher than Russia.

Does not mean much for a couple of them . There are 4 kinds indpectiions. a,b,c,d:

A check[edit]

This is performed approximately every 125 flight hours or 200–300 cycles (takeoff and landing is considered an aircraft "cycle"). It needs about 20–50 man-hours and is usually performed overnight at an airport gate

B check
every 6 months. It needs about 120-150 man-hours, depending on the aircraft, and is usually completed within 1–3 days at an airport hangar.


C check[edit]

This is performed approximately every 20–24 months or a specific amount of actual flight hours (FH) or as defined by the manufacturer. This maintenance check is much more extensive than a B check, requiring a large majority of the aircraft's components to be inspected. This check puts the aircraft out of service and until it is completed, the aircraft must not leave the maintenance site. It also requires more space than A and B checks

This is by far the most comprehensive and demanding check for an airplane. It is also known as a "heavy maintenance visit" (HMV). This check occurs approximately every 6 years. It is a check that, more or less, takes the entire airplane apart for inspection and overhaul. Also, if required, the paint may need to be completely removed for further inspection on the fuselage metal skin. Such a check can usually demand up to 50,000 man-hours and it can generally take up to 2 months to complete, depending on the aircraft and the number of technicians involved. It also requires the most space of all maintenance checks, and as such must be performed at a suitable maintenance base. Given the elevated requirements of this check and the tremendous effort involved in it, it is also by far the most expensive maintenance check of all, with total costs for a single visit ending up well within the million-dollar range.

D check would be the only one where they might be able to see the tail strike , or to put it another way maybe they could find it once in six years - this is for america . How they ignored the crack on the ourtside is more than bewqildering!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft

I dont know (looked) how Russia has it maintenance set up.
Here in America "fatigue" became huge after Aloha ceiling blew up in flight.

It became what is called a "watershed" accident in that it made huge difference in how was fatigue was addressed here in AMeirca

Another waretshed A Delta Air Lines, Inc., DC-9-14, that bought to light how dangerous it is for airplanes behind any jumbo jet can be. The jumbos , basically, create like tornados off their wing tips. They increased seperatioin for small planes folowing a jumbo

Delta 191 (one I wanted to go to public hearing!) was one of the biggest watersheds -dealing with drastic changes in weather stuff.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22watershed%22+accidents&rlz=1C1SAVO_enUS661US661&oq=%22watershed%22+accidents&aqs=chrome..69i57.5375j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=%22watershed%22+avoation++accidents

 

[SophieRose]

I see 13 British airliners (including Thomas Cook) set to land on Monday the 9th at Sharm el-Sheikh airport and 12 British airliners scheduled for departure. Let's see what ends up happening.

 

[CARIIS]

I wonder why they are descirinb this as the worst since 9-11--298 people were killed when Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17??

 

[CARIIS]

.Just did this whole post opps not logged in I shall summerize I wanted to find out the ABCD maintenance equivelent for this machine. Could not but did discover that Russis is member of ICAO which is huge. Basically its like liscensure for professions. One of the airlines was in Turkey , the other Lebanon.

Contrary to media reports she has flown for four different carriers. A couple of low cost safty rating 5.5/7 , one full service , safety 7/7. She was with the 7/7 rated (Saudi) for 4 months during the holiday peroid where I would assume Saudi needed extra capacity. One of them operated 17 aircraft , Saudi 119.

Related to this hunt (!) is fatigue testing of aircraft is ardoues, labor intensive,EXPENSIVE, AND requires very skilled / trained folks - so I wanted to find out if who she flew for would have been able to do it properly. The answer is no! a carrier with 17 aircraft , and being with he big boys for 4 months does not cut it! It is b.o.r.i.n.g task. Visuually picture an iron , on this machine, that has to run back and forth over every square inch of a plane! Does not look like that but it is slow going! Does anyone know the "no code" comes up on some cut and pastres?



[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 810"]Operators of the aircraft
[TABLE="width: 790"]
[TR="class: textenu, bgcolor: #75AADB"]
[TD="width: 15%"]Delivery date[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%"]Airline[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]Registration[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%"]Remark[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]27/05/1997[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]MEA[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]F-OHMP[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd ILFC - ret 05/2003 [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]29/05/2003[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Onur Air[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd from ILFC [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]15/11/2007[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Saudi Arabian Airlines[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd from Onur Air [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]24/01/2008[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Onur Air[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Stored 03/2012 [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]27/04/2012[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Kolavia[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]EI-ETJ[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Lsd From Ilfc [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]01/05/2012[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Metrojet Russia[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]EI-ETJ[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]31 oct 2015 Crashed as flight 7K 9268 from Sharm-Al-Sheik to ST. Petersburg [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Some photos of this plane
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 810"]Operators of the aircraft
[TABLE="width: 790"]
[TR="class: textenu, bgcolor: #75AADB"]
[TD="width: 15%"]Delivery date[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%"]Airline[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]Registration[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%"]Remark[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]27/05/1997[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]MEA[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]F-OHMP[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd ILFC - ret 05/2003 [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]29/05/2003[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Onur Air[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd from ILFC [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]15/11/2007[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Saudi Arabian Airlines[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]lsd from Onur Air [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]24/01/2008[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Onur Air[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]TC-OAE[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Stored 03/2012 [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]27/04/2012[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Kolavia[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 20%"]EI-ETJ[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Lsd From Ilfc [/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 5%"]Correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: trtab"]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"]01/05/2012[/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"]Metrojet Russia



http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-663.htm[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Momoffourboys]

I wonder why they are descirinb this as the worst since 9-11--298 people were killed when Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17??

Yes. That made me say "hmmm", also.
Not to minimize the tragedy, any tragedy. Not quite a realistic comparison, IMO.

Also, 9/11 was on US soil. Right under our noses.

 

[CARIIS]

Just to give you an idea of how intense trying to make sure the tail strike repair was not falling apart just some pics of what it entails - this is not Metro relating but gives an idea of the intensity

These are blown up 542,258,658 times ! Which in reality translates to the longer they manipulate the story as far as bomb, the harder it is going to be in terms of looking elsewhere! We all saw these people, out in a buch of sand playing around , moving, stepping on or over evidence!

While proclsiming (Egypt) that they have a clue what they are doing - here is how it is suppossed to go down from millisecond one!

For serious accidents: immediately implement

• Exercise command and control over the operation•
Establish the Kill Zone•
Identify an inner perimeter•
Identify an outer perimeter•
Identify a command post• Identify a staging area•
Identify additional resources

a. After the scene is isolated and stabilized, no one, including police officers, are permitted access to the scene unless specifically directed by the investigative authority after they havetaken control of the scene.
b. Do not move any portion of the aircraft, luggage, or any otherobjects which may have been on the aircraft.
c. Do not move fatalities until directed by Coroner.

Under no circumstances is the news media allowed to enter

showing proper identification

... to me it looked like a tail gate party in some sand!

did not pick this link any particular reason first one but please I cracked up the first video that was coming in ---give me a break!

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/assets/File/Procedures/12226.pdf

 

[CARIIS]

gos chicago 9 year lured into alley shot dead

 

[Hatfield]

Always_

ty again .....I am 57 .....My most (Delta 191 was watershed with microburts) but .........Eastern 1011. I am fine and capable to say that is back then as a family who we flew --- but the skew here for me is it was my love the 1011

and wild........................

she is on approach into Miami ,they dont get green on all four landing gear...............they ask to fly around until they can determine whats happening ....they are over the everglades .... set auto pilot.........they are all focused on the indicator, they cant get it open.................

captain getting agitated.................you got to get your flight in, there is a whole sea of stuff under cockpit , and a door down there from cockpit, ..............he sends member of flight crew down there ...............its like a telescope where you can see if the landing gear is actually down ...........but the light down there does not work .............so they give him a flashlight ..........meanwhile they are , in the cockpit still wrangling with the little light .............

.in the L1011 a bump on either the pilot or coplit wheel disengages the auto pilot. The captain turned around and hit it................the auto pilot was disengaged..............they did not know this.......there is a nice and quite little chime that goes off - it is on the cockpit recorder , but noone in cockpits hears it................the jumbo jet is decending over the everglades, it is very dark out there3 ..........suddenly the captain syas something like what is going on here ....are we not at (altide) dont remeber the number ,,,,,

the giant beast then tail tips into the everglades, but it is smushy .................so their are a lot of survivors as far as impact goes...............jet fuel is like baby oil .................it coats you ..................a survivor yells out none light match ..............boy would i be a danger .................i cant imagine a time i would want a cigg! ......................they listen to people moaning and screaming in pain...............there are disgusting snakes alligators ..........they watch people drown in front of them ..............its the holidays ...............some start to sing Christmas carols .......

there are people still trapped in their seat s but cant get out.............their in the everglades ...............they have huge issues finding the site, and then how to get there , a dude on a boat thing saw the whole thing................he was trying to catch frogs ...........sont ask me cant get that ! he rams his airboat over there ..............aas he gets closer he realizes he has to go slow ................

cause there are bodies every where ....................hey cant find wreckage site......................and when they do there is no way to get there...................nowhere a helicopter can land ..............they have to wait sun .............they build like a mini road where air boats can get people to the little place they built .............

You know what ....................a jumbo , new , 1011 , crashed inot the everglades , beccause a $4.24 light bulb did not go on........................................................prety stunning no ?

my beautful baby -- she was just pretty.............when she reached for the skies she was just a lady ...............she was gracefull...........she took her own time...........and being inside her at cruise was just "pretty".... She just left the runway like a "lady:!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqu-YEcl0e8

OT

Re BBM
I remember that accident very well at the time. I didn't remember why it happened and that is interesting that the autopilot was accidentally turned off with an accidental touching of the steering.

It makes sense how that could happen in the dark and not know autopilot is off. It sounds like automobile cruise control when you touch your breaks how it goes off automatically. Sounds similar to turn off autopilot by touching the steering.

Other planes are probably different now to make sure pilots take some other action to turn it off. At the time it would have been something nobobdy would have ever thought could cause such a disaster.

That was a terrible accident because the plane fell in a very remote part of everglades which was hard to get rescue to.

Thanks for sharing the reminder story.

And sorry to our poster who knew the copilot family. Sad to hear but please know there are many of us who still remember about that sad time.

 

[Hatfield]

I have been frustrated that any news about chemical testing for bomb residue has not been completed or told to us by now.

That should not take too long. Why so long? It seems that is the simplest way to prove a bomb. Chemical testing of components near where they think explosion took place.

Put in Gas Chromatograph and results are quickly obtained. So wondering what is taking so long. Maybe the tests are not showing bomb residue. If so, then they should release that news so far.

It is strange about that to me why we haven't heard one way or other yet about the testing.

If it is a bomb that caused it then another thing I am wondering about is the trigger mechanism of the bomb.

We know the plane had trouble around 30,000 feet. So that would mean the trigger could be atmospheric pressure related or maybe someone on plane with a cell phone to trigger.

The trigger will be interesting because how did they make it go off precicely at the cruising altitude.

Anyway, lets hope investigators give some news that is definitely telling us one way or another. Everyhting is so iffy so far about what could have caused it. The chatter does seem to indicate bomb but there has to be supporting evidence too.

 

[jjenny]

It's not necessary for anybody on a plane to be pulling a switch. Bomb could be on a timer, programmed to blow up at a certain time.