Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

[SouthAussie]

We can see the tower in the image. That is why I put it in. Have a look. You can tell.

What I said was that I can't see it on Google street walk. I have tried. A satellite image doesn't show me the sectors.
Have you been able to pull it in on street walk?

I agree it is the one near Bird World, I am not looking at the tower on Mount Buninyong.

 

[drsleuth]

Is this the tower we are talking about?

Oz Towers, 3350029 - Buninyong Golf Course CA 49D, Eddy Avenue, Mount Helen MOUNT HELEN VIC 3350.

Australian Mobile, State of the Nation.

oztowers.com.au

3350029​

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Is this the tower we are talking about?

Oz Towers, 3350029 - Buninyong Golf Course CA 49D, Eddy Avenue, Mount Helen MOUNT HELEN VIC 3350.

Australian Mobile, State of the Nation.

oztowers.com.au

3350029​

yes. Its actually not on the golf course.
Buninyong Golf Course
CA 49D, Eddy Avenue, Mount Helen
MOUNT HELEN VIC 3350

 

[SouthAussie]

Is this the tower we are talking about?

Oz Towers, 3350029 - Buninyong Golf Course CA 49D, Eddy Avenue, Mount Helen MOUNT HELEN VIC 3350.

Australian Mobile, State of the Nation.

oztowers.com.au

3350029​

Yes, that is the one I think it is also. I can't be sure, but from the areas they have been searching "due to pings" I am guessing it is that one.

 

[drsleuth]

See page 20 of this inquest report for Theo Hayez. Is the “cell section” you mention the same as “the shaded wedged shaped area” shown in this report?

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/documents/findings/2022/Inquest_into_the_disappearance_and_suspected_death_of_Theo_Hayez.pdf

You can actually watch it here too

From about 35 mins in, click watch on youtube

 

[australianwebsleuth]

The same cell tower. My god, at least there is something we can agree on. LOL

 

[SouthAussie]

The same cell tower. My god, at least there is something we can agree on. LOL

We have actually discussed this further back in the threads already. The Bird World tower.

 

[Rocket333]

In this news clip the reporter says the property owners were approached by police in the weeks after Samantha went missing, warning them that the area would be searched.

The police came to the dam property just weeks after Sam disappeared? That’s really early on in the scheme of things. Did the police search all dams and properties within the 5km radius?

“The home owners told Nine News that they were approached by police just weeks after and Ms Murphy’s disappearance.”
“Warned the area would be searched considering the dam is just 5km away from the phone tower that triggered her last ping”.

 

[JLZ]

Could the phone have been triangulated once the water receded?

 

[SouthAussie]

Could the phone have been triangulated once the water receded?

Not if it was off. And if it did happen to be on at the time of chucking it in the dam, the water likely killed it within 30 minutes. If you do a bit of a google, you will see blogs and Apple discussions groups that say the IP67-rated iPhone can last 30 minutes submerged. They are classed as water-resistant.

imo

 

[mrjitty]

Isn't it more likely they could tell the direction than the distance?

From other cases i have followed they can use something called timing advance to get an azimuth and an approximate distance from the tower. Timing advance is basically a way that the tower calculates the return time/distance for the radio signal to the phone.

This can be used with other intel and insights and experiences. For instance if you look in the arc, and discover there is a location where evidence might be dumped - then that is a good place to look....

 

[mrjitty]

They can tell which sector the phone pinged on, on a single tower. Which gives them a general direction. It is not one gigantic circle.
They just can't triangulate from one tower, or two (although two is better than one, and not as good as three or more). And the sector is rather large.

I have posted this link several times now. I think it is one of the easiest explanations for a layperson to understand.



Here is how a single mobile network tower would work.

The mobile tower can determine that the signal is being received from the γ sector, and that the source of the signal is close to 8 km from the mobile tower.

The mobile tower is then able to locate the source of the signal, placing the device within the yellow band which is around 16km long and .25km wide for a total of around 4km².

Within each sector, the tower can determine the distance of the transmitting device. This is done by measuring the strength of the signal and the time in which it takes for the signal to hit the destination and return.

View attachment 529531

Cell Tower Triangulation - GPYes Tracking Solutions

Cell Tower Triangulation is a technique used widely by mobile network operators, devices and phones to help identify their location. A device that is within communication range of three or more mobile network towers is located by the overlap of signals based upon its range from each tower.The...

www.gpyes.com.au

yes exactly this.

So then you look at what is in those sectors - e.g road access, structures, potential dumping sites etc

 

[drsleuth]

This is another case I followed ages ago, that has a really good visual description of cell tower data tracking , it is a few years old ...

Start about 3 hrs 48 mins in.

WARNING it is a very graphic case

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think it was a complete co-incidence. I think they had some intel, but didn't know exactly which dam, but knew the general area.

IMO

Agreed - this sort of thing has happened in many other cases and reveals how often backbreaking leg work is needed (plus a bit of luck). How many times do we see reservoirs etc searched with divers because insights have identified a number of potential dumping sites. And many times, these insights pan out - frequently because perps tend not to go far for disposal.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

You wonder how did police suddenly arrive at this location? Where were all the failed attempts at other properties along this road, or other roads? Did they just get lucky? Or was it staged?
But we know Samantha's phone has been found within range of the Buninyong tower, so it's consistent with the
(possibly unconfirmed) 5pm ping.

Pings to cell towers from devices without SIMs contain very little useful data.

But still doesn't prove definitively that Samantha or her phone was in that location at that time, including the accused, we still don't know where her watch is, but again if she had a cellular Apple Watch there would have been no need for her to take her phone.

It was said that Samantha's device pinged a cell tower. This requires either her phone, with or without a Sim card to be active OR a cellular-connected Apple watch

Even if the phone pinged at 5pm, it may have been in the dam earlier.
Or the phone may have pinged at 5pm but been put in the dam on a different day altogether.

I find it very strange that clearly who ever disposed of Samantha's phone wanted to dispose of the whole contents of the phone wallet, including her ID

Is there a connection with that dam ? And who ever put it there thought it would never be searched ?

But we don't know for sure it was the accused who put the phone in the dam.

 

[Rocket333]

I find it very strange that clearly who ever disposed of Samantha's phone wanted to dispose of the whole contents of the phone wallet, including her ID

I agree. When the aim is to not be detected, it seems like a rushed response to leave a wad of serious evidence intact and together. I wonder if the focus on hiding the body caused the phone and wallet to be an afterthought resulting in the need to get rid of all of it quickly. I get putting the phone in water but not leaving it in the wallet with the cards.
Added to that though is the possibility that other stuff was discarded there too. Possibly in the bushes. Wouldn’t you think, if you had the time and means, you’d get rid of them separately and hide them well?

“On Wednesday, police confirmed they had located "some items of interest" during their search.”

Divers search dam as police find 'items of interest' in Samantha Murphy search

Victoria Police have recovered a phone as they search a dam south of Ballarat as part of their investigation into the alleged murder of mother-of-three Samantha Murphy.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I agree. When the aim is to not be detected, it seems like a rushed response to leave a wad of serious evidence intact and together. I wonder if the focus on hiding the body caused the phone and wallet to be an afterthought resulting in the need to get rid of all of it quickly. I get putting the phone in water but not leaving it in the wallet with the cards.

I still don't understand why throw the phone at all? If he is on the way to disposing of the body, why risk a stop and not just dispose of the phone with the body?

The smart thing would be to disable the phone and dispose of it with her body at the same time, otherwise it increases the chances of getting caught.

And If he is on the way back, and suddenly realises he still has the phone, why choose that location when he could easily destroy the phone completely ?
And having a phone wallet with all of Samantha's ID including driver's licence left in place is strange to me.

What also intrigues me, the accused was so meticulous in hiding her body, murder weapon, and other evidence relating to the crime. But then totally careless and nonchalant about the phone.

Things can change, too, as more evidence is collected since Samantha disappeared seven months ago

 

[Rocket333]

I still don't understand why throw the phone at all? If he is on the way to disposing of the body, why risk a stop and not just dispose of the phone with the body?

On the way home perhaps? If heading home from the south, the dam is situated before the turnoffs to back roads (such as Webbs Hill Road) that take him home quickly.

Scenario: Had to get home. Might have had plans to drive the girlfriend somewhere. Maybe turned his phone on and saw lots of messages (and phone data then recorded him as being around there). Sam’s phone and other stuff is still in his car so he pulled over and chucked it all out at the same time just to get rid of it as it was by then too risky to have it in his car.

It just seems like a hasty thing to do so he might have been under the pump and had no choice.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I still don't understand why throw the phone at all? If he is on the way to disposing of the body, why risk a stop and not just dispose of the phone with the body?

The smart thing would be to disable the phone and dispose of it with her body at the same time, otherwise it increases the chances of getting caught.

And If he is on the way back, and suddenly realises he still has the phone, why choose that location when he could easily destroy the phone completely ?
And having a phone wallet with all of Samantha's ID including driver's licence left in place is strange to me.

What also intrigues me, the accused was so meticulous in hiding her body, murder weapon, and other evidence relating to the crime. But then totally careless and nonchalant about the phone.

Things can change, too, as more evidence is collected since Samantha disappeared seven months ago

I suspect this perp has just been lucky with the body so far. I don't think any of this shows great thought.

IMO it seems to be the thing of late for the murder to dispose of evidence all over the place - which turns out to be stupid. in several cases the perp has been caught on CCTV doing dumpster runs.

In this case, the reason to hide the body at all, is to conceal forensics, but the other stuff - there is likely no need to conceal any of it.

 

[mrjitty]

On the way home perhaps? If heading home from the south, the dam is situated before the turnoffs to back roads (such as Webbs Hill Road) that take him home quickly.

Scenario: Had to get home. Might have had plans to drive the girlfriend somewhere. Maybe turned his phone on and saw lots of messages (and phone data then recorded him as being around there). Sam’s phone and other stuff is still in his car so he pulled over and chucked it all out at the same time just to get rid of it as it was by then too risky to have it in his car.

It just seems like a hasty thing to do so he might have been under the pump and had no choice.

JMO

He might also have ideas of staging the phone elsewhere.