Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #12

[Porky1]

Country towns are like that. And it is the great Australian story, Lost In The Bush.

Added to that, it's Summer.

It does not surprise me in the least, and least of all the speed that Police took on board , without hesitation, that she was not running according to plan. No one in the police station hesitated, and this is a tremendous example of good instincts taken to the limit.

These were middle aged professional women who called in , one was a vet, one was the town psychiatrist ( Samantha had some jolly nice friends ) women who Got Things Done, they would have laid it out for the copper on the bench at the station in no uncertain terms.

Be a brave young copper who argued with them , is how I see

She was a woman who ran her life like clockwork. She ran a successful business, was likely involved in school/out of school activities with her children, was heavily involved in the arts community, was a runner, likely walked her dogs around the local area, and had friends. No doubt she was acquainted with a variety of people in Ballarat, especially through the business. There's a likelihood that she was known amongst local police (not on a criminal level, just crossing paths in a small-ish community on the edge of Ballarat. For all we know, police vehicles may have been fixed at the Murphy's business) and it was so out of character, coupled with her phone being off, that they moved fast. Add in the heat of the day and the decision could have been made to act promptly.

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

I agree, although we don't know what they were treating it as, just that they acted fast. The below Vic Pol page about missing persons doesn't exactly state what steps are taken and how quickly they are taken, so I guess it's on a case by case basis. For all we know, Samantha may have had some health issues. This is generally reported in missing persons cases as something along the lines of "police have concerns due to a medical condition (or requires medication)". I'm guessing the family of the missing person has the right to disclose/not disclose that info, but ask to keep it quiet for whatever reason. Perhaps she was being tested for seizures or an unknown medical issue, but not diagnosed? I guess there's a combination of reasons why they acted fast, but I'm leaning towards it being because it was very out of character (especially combined with the phone being turned off), the expected heat of the day, and perhaps because they were privy to more information that the public don't need to know. Best to act quickly and rescue someone before you discover them hours later, dehydrated and in a bad way. Someone mentioned above (Sorry, can't recall who it was), there's a chance the family had access to data from her phone or watch that showed something very concerning. Phones allow you to share your location, and there's tracking apps that couples/parents/families use for safety, among other reasons. This would be a very legitimate reason to act fast.

Report a missing person

Learn about when someone is considered a missing person, and how to make a missing person’s report to the police.

www.police.vic.gov.au

 

[Trooper]

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

I recall it somewhat differently , in so far as the public was encouraged to search, and the Missing Persons squad was in charge, from the start, THEN, about 3 weeks in, suddenly, the entire program changed, Commander Patton stated it was a Homicide matter , the public was asked to stand down, the Missing Persons squad was stood down, Homicide took over, and then , blammo, Mr Stephenson was arrested..

I truly believe it was a missing person thingy at the beginning, there was lots of stuff that she might have run away, that her credit cards and whatnot were being checked, stuff like that.....

 

[Trooper]

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

Gerard Baden Clay rang the police about his 'missing wife' , Allison, who, he said, had gone for a run, this was at 7.30am.. a young constable turned up at his house at 7.40, to get the story, listened to Gerard, noticed a big scratch on his face, excused himself , went outside and rang his sergeant, ' Sarge, he looks squirrely, he's got a big chunk out of his face, somethings off'. The sarge said ' Call it in to MissPer, . I'll get Homicide straight on to it' as well ... this was at 7.55. A huge search and rescue operation began. and didn't end for some time.

Pretty quick, all up.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I recall it somewhat differently , in so far as the public was encouraged to search, and the Missing Persons squad was in charge, from the start, THEN, about 3 weeks in, suddenly, the entire program changed, Commander Patton stated it was a Homicide matter , the public was asked to stand down, the Missing Persons squad was stood down, Homicide took over, and then , blammo, Mr Stephenson was arrested..

I truly believe it was a missing person thingy at the beginning, there was lots of stuff that she might have run away, that her credit cards and whatnot were being checked, stuff like that.....

In the beginning they have to keep all avenues open I guess, even if your instincts lead you in one direction. It's the best way for police to work. How many times have we heard, often overseas, that police have tunnel vision and refuse to fully investigate other avenues than the one they're focused on, to the detriment of the case. I seem to recall that even very early on there were a heap of departments involved, which seemed odd. I do feel like a lot was learnt in the early weeks which changed the investigation. I'd really love to know what day it was the PS became a suspect.

 

[Trooper]

In the beginning they have to keep all avenues open I guess, even if your instincts lead you in one direction. It's the best way for police to work. How many times have we heard, often overseas, that police have tunnel vision and refuse to fully investigate other avenues than the one they're focused on, to the detriment of the case. I seem to recall that even very early on there were a heap of departments involved, which seemed odd. I do feel like a lot was learnt in the early weeks which changed the investigation. I'd really love to know what day it was the PS became a suspect.

I agree, there were certainly a lot of specialist groups factored in, even , at one stage, the Anti Terrorist mob, I suppose this was due to rumours of bikie wackiness, and/or the idiots in black up in the Grampians on their summer heiling holiday, because one never knows. ...... Traffic squad was in on it , also, even though it was not a hit and run incident, it certainly had an element of Traffic in it....

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

The search for Vicky Davey also developed quickly and extensively. Reported missing in the late afternoon IIRC (last seen at 2pm at a store). Partner couldn't get hold of her by phone.
Police were out physically searching by 9pm, and they searched all night long and for the next two days, until they sadly found her deceased.

I don't think it is that unusual anymore, for the police to jump right on it. It might have been unusual back in the day, but not now. If people are worried about an adult, there is usually a very good reason for them to be worried.

imo

 

[Scooby-Doo]

If there was a Ping from Samantha's phone from the Buninyong Tower 5pm or earlier, it says that her phone was in the vicinity at the time of the Ping, and was switched on.

But Mick said her phone was Off when he tried to ring her that morning.

But If Buninyong was the last phone ping? How did this happen if the phone was in the dam at 5pm? Or 5pm when the phone was tossed into the dam, but pings cannot transmit through water

The final ping at 5 pm (If it's true) Might not be accurate either, police allege that Samantha was killed at Mt Clear. It could be circumstantial evidence that she may have been alive later that day in a different location. So police would need to establish how this ping occurred with their evidence, so there is reasonable doubt that she was murdered at Mt Clear.

If her phone had been placed in a toolbox or metal case, that would block the signal, and when it was taken out, that would allow one final ping from another location hours later

But the phone may but been put in the dam on a different day altogether
and we don't know for sure it was the accused who put the phone in the dam. Police have not said anything.
He might have even given it to someone else to dispose of it, they might have had it in their possession for a while, we still don't know If police have found her watch

The police would know now how long the phone has been at the dam.

Phone batteries go flat within a matter of hours, if it was the last ping from that phone then surely police would have found it weeks earlier, after the event.

I find it interesting that none of her cards had fallen or slipped out of the phone wallet, especially if the phone had be thrown from the road, or from a distance, but they seemed to be loose, easily moved around when being shown by the police to the media

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I agree re country towns, her character, reliability, etc. I still have never seen a search case in Australia develop so quickly, or so broad, regardless of environmental factors. The Police were treating it as an abduction/murder investigation from the get go.

But at the end of the day, police can believe whatever they believe, and say whatever they choose to say. Whether it was a deliberate act or anything else, but it needs to be proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law and still without a body

 

[SouthAussie]

(snipped by me)

and we don't know for sure it was the accused who put the phone in the dam.

I am not understanding why it is thought that someone else put the phone there?

It seems that the police have alleged in court or court documents that PS acted alone. Seems highly unlikely they would do that, if there was someone else involved. They would just say nothing about his sole involvement, if they want credibility with a judge.

imo

 

[Trooper]

Police do not require a body to bring a case of murder to the attention of the DPP... nor , as it happens, do VICPOL or any police force in Australia need to clarify or propose a motive. The law has no interest in motive, and the judge has no interest in it, either. Motive as a factor will not be of any significance in this upcoming trial.

Most police forces , in AU, have had many experiences of bringing a case to a conviction, without a body. Corpus dilectus refers to the body of the crime, that is, the essence of the crime, not the actual body, per se.

Every thing brought to the court has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, nothing special about this murder. ... ...its a very ordinary murder, man sees woman, man kills woman, man goes home and has breakfast, and pretends he knows nothing about it.

Happens all the time. Ordinary stuff.

It's the sheer outrageousness of it that provokes public opinion..

 

[Poirot's niece]

Country towns are like that. And it is the great Australian story, Lost In The Bush.

Added to that, it's Summer.

It does not surprise me in the least, and least of all the speed that Police took on board , without hesitation, that she was not running according to plan. No one in the police station hesitated, and this is a tremendous example of good instincts taken to the limit.

These were middle aged professional women who called in , one was a vet, one was the town psychiatrist ( Samantha had some jolly nice friends ) women who Got Things Done, they would have laid it out for the copper on the bench at the station in no uncertain terms.

Be a brave young copper who argued with them , is how I see it...

Agreed, and as has been mentioned before, Samantha's phone and smart watch were likely linked to her husband's. He could log in and check activity. If she was wearing her iphone and dangerous physical symptoms are sensed it may have triggered a 000 alert, or a big change in activity around 8AM. Once her friends called and he checked the app police would have solid evidence for alarm.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I am not understanding why it is thought that someone else put the phone there?

It seems that the police have alleged in court that PS acted alone. Seems highly unlikely they would do that, if there was someone else involved.

Do you honestly think if there was a third party involved, police would say yes to the Media ? Especially If someone or others were under surveillance ? And they might skip overseas or get nervous etc. and ruin the whole investigation ?

There might not be, he might have done all this himself

but I wouldn't rule it out altogether until this case is closed. Possibly another reason why 'supposedly' the accused has kept his mouth shut from day one.

Could be protecting another party, under threats ?

New evidence would be coming in

But personally, to be able to carry out such an organised crime without detection, not leaving any evidence, including hiding a body from numerous searchers and police.

I find it 'amazing' a young dopey 22-year-old,who hasn't been in the prison system before, and is already serving a long time in custody is remaining silent, he doesn't seem in a hurry to get out either

But we will have to wait and see

 

[mrjitty]

Police do not require a body to bring a case of murder to the attention of the DPP... nor , as it happens, do VICPOL or any police force in Australia need to clarify or propose a motive. The law has no interest in motive, and the judge has no interest in it, either. Motive as a factor will not be of any significance in this upcoming trial.

Most police forces , in AU, have had many experiences of bringing a case to a conviction, without a body. Corpus dilectus refers to the body of the crime, that is, the essence of the crime, not the actual body, per se.

Every thing brought to the court has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, nothing special about this murder. ... ...its a very ordinary murder, man sees woman, man kills woman, man goes home and has breakfast, and pretends he knows nothing about it.

Happens all the time. Ordinary stuff.

It's the sheer outrageousness of it that provokes public opinion..

agreed. i an not sure why the need to speculate so many things when none of it will be known until trial.

my two cents is this was not well planned and perp just got lucky for a while

 

[SouthAussie]

Do you honestly think if there was a third party involved, police would say yes to the Media ? Especially If someone or others were under surveillance ? And they might skip overseas or get nervous etc. and ruin the whole investigation ?

As I said, I am pretty sure that the police made the allegation in court. Not to the media. It was reported by media at the time of the court hearing.

I still don't understand why it is thought someone else is involved. That someone else is under surveillance. Why that is even under any consideration.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Police do not require a body to bring a case of murder to the attention of the DPP... nor , as it happens, do VICPOL or any police force in Australia need to clarify or propose a motive. The law has no interest in motive, and the judge has no interest in it, either. Motive as a factor will not be of any significance in this upcoming trial.

Most police forces , in AU, have had many experiences of bringing a case to a conviction, without a body. Corpus dilectus refers to the body of the crime, that is, the essence of the crime, not the actual body, per se.

Every thing brought to the court has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, nothing special about this murder. ... ...its a very ordinary murder, man sees woman, man kills woman, man goes home and has breakfast, and pretends he knows nothing about it.

Happens all the time. Ordinary stuff.

It's the sheer outrageousness of it that provokes public opinion..

It's a very intriguing case and everyone has an opinion
But we don't know what will happen and what evidence the police will have
And it might or might not be a 'nothing special murder either'

 

[SouthAussie]

It's a very intriguing case and everyone has an opinion

I dunno, Scooby. My understanding is that our speculation needs to be based on some kind of facts. Threadiquette.

I am not seeing any facts that suggest involvement of anyone else. And the police have stated that PS acted alone.

imo

 

[Trooper]

It's a very intriguing case and everyone has an opinion
But we don't know what will happen and what evidence the police will have
And it might or might not be a 'nothing special murder either'

All opinion has to be back ed up by fact. Some morsel of fact. Opinions, on their own, are unhelpful....At some point the proposal of a 'third party' has to be backed up by some sort of factual event. Ditto, the proposal that the searches the police undergo are 'deep fakes' intended to deceive has to have some foundation.

VICPOL hauling dogs and horses and camels, and dancing bears and Nubian slave girls around Ballarat just to fool folks into believing they are searching for a body does not make a lot of sense.. All done in the pouring rain, too.

Even for VICPOL , a police force not known for it's humourous contingent, that's a bit much...

 

[Scooby-Doo]

As I said, I am pretty sure that the police made the allegation in court. Not to the media. It was reported by media at the time of the court hearing.

I still don't understand why it is thought someone else is involved. That someone else is under surveillance. Why that is even under any consideration.

That is my thoughts, the police also said in the beginning more parties involved in her disappearance, whether that's true now, we don't know. But a lot of new evidence has come forth, witnesses as well as CCTV
What court allegation ? I know earlier in the piece they suspect 'more parties' involved in Samantha's disappearance
The police aren't going to say anything that will jeopardise their operational activity

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I dunno, Scooby. My understanding is that our speculation needs to be based on some kind of facts. Threadiquette.

I am not seeing any facts that suggest involvement of anyone else. And the police have stated that PS acted alone.

imo

I have said my reasoning. You can't say it's an ordinary murder, we don't know. We'll know more soon